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[–] 33 points 9 months ago (1 child)

Both are a product of the same system. Some are just more honest about their intentions.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago
    [–] 20 points 9 months ago

    The original version of this meme was problematic but my god this version of it is spot on accurate. And it still would be accurate for countless other things that could be put in the Biden/Trump speech bubble. Despite what Democrats pretend, and how they like to (ineffectively) play the role of opposition to Trump, they are fine with 90% of what he does, he just does it without any deference to the liberal theatrics of "law," with too much bombast instead of fake personal difficulty making "hard choices," and because he's not on team Blue. Granted, there are a few significant things I think it's safe to say would not have happened under a Democrat president, but vanishingly few of those are things they wouldn't have wanted to do.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago (12 children)

    Okay, then what do you suggest?

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago*

    Public show trials to enumerate and publicize the crimes they committed under their form of law followed by a swift and clean execution

    And this applies to every public official who used their position and power of the state to immiserate and kill the global population, not just those two

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  • [+] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (11 children)
  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago (10 children)

    Good point. Voting would make that impossible.

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  • [+] 7 points 9 months ago (10 children)
  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago (9 children)

    Not voting against them still gives them ground for no benefit.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    Plenty of 3rd parties and independents at all levels.

    That’s just not voting but with extra steps.

    So what is it now? Voting against them does nothing, or voting against them is important?

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  • [+] 8 points 9 months ago* (8 children)
  • [+] -8 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Pretending that they're the same is just as delusional as pretending the Democrats are good. I agree that we have to get organized, but if we can't even fucking vote then actual organization is a pipedream.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    Pretending that they’re the same is just as delusional

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    You should show that to Renee Good's family, or maybe one of the thousands of people in a brand new concentration camp instead of with their families like they were 2 years ago. I'm sure they'll get a kick out of it.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Or maybe try telling it to all the people of color shot by cops from 2020-2024, or the kids in cages that never went away when a Democrat was elected president but just silently forgotten about and suddenly ignored by the same media that had been using them for cheap political points during election season, or the thousands of people in NOT brand-new concentration camps but the ones that have existed the whole fucking time. Or are you saying that none of that shit mattered then since your blue team was in the big boy chair, but only matters now that a cheeto is office and it was a white person that got executed by the bipartisan fascists this time? Despicable.

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    Of course I was outraged that that was all happening under Democrats. You might notice I haven't been praising them.

    Just because they're both awful, doesn't mean that one of them isn't worse. Pointing out "but hey, blue team bad too" doesn't contradict that. Failing to vote against Republicans is just giving them ground. In 2024 we gave them ground and they built brand new concentration camps on it. Are you not outraged at that? Do you not wish that could have been avoided?

    I'm all for organization. It is quite literally the only path to positive change here. But that doesn't mean we can stop voting. We have to do both.

    If you really do genuinely believe that they're both the same, then why even bring up the idea of voting? Why spend time, effort and attention convincing people to reduce their civic engagement instead of convincing them to increase their civic engagement?

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago*

    Brand new concentration camp

    Oh that's right, we just started calling them that again now that the Democrats aren't in charge anymore. What were you calling them before, again? Ah right, "temporary migrant holding facilities."

    Pictured: the peaceful halcyon days of democratic governance

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    [–] -5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (34 children)

    Are you mad? We absolutely need a Democrat take over of the house and senate

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  • [–] 14 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (24 children)

    Why, so they can condescendingly pretend to be acting out of a sense of stoic necessity when they continue to do all the same things as the Republicans?

    Fuck the democrats, Free Palestine

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  • [+] -8 points 9 months ago (23 children)

    Because I'm trans and don't consent to my rights being used as a bargaining chip do you can stomp your feet and stick it to the dems.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago*

    Democrats were and will be happy to continue to bomb all trans ppl out of existence, as long as they're not from white countries.

    Democrats were staunchly against even gay marriage.... Hillary Clinton was against it until 2008. They're an opportunistic controlled opposition party and will be against your rights as soon as it becomes expedient.

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (16 children)

    Ah yes, people who oppose genocide are just stomping their feet and throwing a tantrum over nothing.

    Democrats presented you with a prisoner's dilemma and instead of standing for humanity, you unhesitatingly threw every Palestinian to the wolves, man woman and child, like a Good German. You supported genocide. You voted for genocide. You are a genocide supporter. You are a fascist, whether you choose to accept it or not.

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  • [+] -12 points 9 months ago (15 children)

    I didn't support genocide. There was no option to save Palestine. Trump didn't do it.

    There was an option to save transpeople in America. That was Kamala. You didn't take it. You sacrificed me in order to satiate your ego.

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    I didn't support genocide

    You literally voted for it and now you're trying to pretend there's nothing you could have done. You Vichy collaborators make me fucking sick.

    There was no option to save Palestine

    Not by continuing to support the same people destroying it. That should've been your indication that it was time to stand up and stop enabling these fucks! They only felt safe telling you to suck it up and support genocide in the first place because acquiescent toadies like you indulged them on every other rightward lurch, never imposing any consequences!

    There was an option to save transpeople in America. That was Kamala.

    Kamala, the cop who put trans women in men's prisons and promised nothing? That's your salvation? The party that has shown it believes in nothing and will sacrifice absolutely anyone? You must be as blind as you are spineless not to see that collaborating with them will bring you no protection whatsoever. Come next election, they'll cut trans people loose and justify it by saying it was to "protect" whatever group is next on their chopping block. Your gormless ass has laid the groundwork for your own annihilation as soon as they find it politically convenient.

    You didn’t take it. You sacrificed me in order to satiate your ego

    First they came for the Palestinians, and you cried "Sure, they can die! Do whatever you want to them, just don't hurt me!" Your pathetic display of selfishness in the moment when it mattered most has marked you in the eyes of history and humanity as yet another nazi.

    "They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after. Who cares any more what particular knot they used in the binding?"

    -A.R. Moxon

    Nice antifascist party you got there, I'm sure they'll never turn around and eat your face. Enjoy the fruits of your cowardice, kapo. I hope all the dead Palestinian kids were worth it to you.

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago* (3 children)
    1. Literally there was no "Spare Palestine" option on the ballot
    2. There is no viable political party in America that doesn't want to destroy Palestine, however I recognize that Trump is more excited to do so than the Dems
    3. Trump banned Transpeople from owning passports, Kamala wouldn't have done that.
    4. There was literally nothing I could do for Palestine, there was no "Save Palestine" option on the ballot. There was a "Don't do Transgender Genocide" option, but you blew it for me. https://www.lemkininstitute.com/single-post/experts-warn-u-s-in-early-stages-of-genocide-against-trans-americans
    5. John Fetterman had a stroke and became a Conservative. He is a Democrat in name only. But I think you knew that before you picked him as your example of a typical Democrat because you exercise in dishonesty.
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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (1 child)
    1. That's a fatal indictment of the people making the ballot, not an excuse to consign millions to the flames

    2. "I had no choice" didn't work at Nuremburg 1 and it's not gonna work at Nuremburg 2

    3. Kamala would have simple done nothing while states did it instead, if history is any indication

    4. The fact that you cannot imagine any action outside of filling a bubble in a paper is a fatal indictment of you, not an accurate assessment of your actual options.

    you blew it for me

    Oh, do I have that power? Wow, that makes it even more inexcusable that the Democrats wouldn't even not commit genocide in order to win my support. That was all they had to do, and they couldn't resist the taste of blood. And you put your hope in these people? Dumb as hell.

    1. John Fetterman was always like this, he chased a black jogger with a shotgun as mayor and still got the party's support. Now he's cheering on the gestapo and they haven't done anything to discipline him. They still let him be in the party because they Do. Not. Care.. He's useful to them to acclimate their base to further fascism. Again, you put your hope in these nazi pricks? Dumb as hell

    Anyway, the genocide you supported will hang over your fascist head until the day you die, so have fun with that.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Trans people have been on the DNC chopping block for a while now. I hate to break that to you, but the Democrats won't save us.

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    They aren't actively hunting us

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago

    Whether it's happening quietly or out in the open the effect is the same. Look at all the anti-trans laws that were passed under Biden. The rhetoric is only thing that has changed.

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  • [–] -3 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Yeah, keep arguing with each other. That's how you'll defeat facism.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 child)

    While I really do appreciate this attitude and find it more practical than most, there's a fundamental hangup that has to be addressed if we, collectively, are going to destroy fascism: it needs to be understood that this is imperialism turned inwards, that American imperialism has always been bipartisan, and that it can never be destroyed by giving our support to it's perpetrators. From Aimee Cesaire's Discourse on Colonialism:

    First we must study how colonization works to decivilize the colonizer, to brutalize him in the true sense of the word, to degrade him, to awaken him to buried instincts, to covetousness, violence, race hatred, and moral relativism; and we must show that each time a head is cut off or an eye put out in Vietnam and in France they accept the fact, each time a little girl is raped and in France they accept the fact, each time a Madagascan is tortured and in France they accept the fact, civilization acquires another dead weight, a universal regression takes place, a gangrene sets in, a center of infection begins to spread; and that at the end of all these treaties that have been violated, all these lies that have been propagated, all these punitive expeditions that have been tolerated, all these prisoners who have been tied up and interrogated, all these patriots who have been tortured, at the end of all the racial pride that has been encouraged, all the boastfulness that has been displayed, a poison has been instilled into the veins of Europe and, slowly but surely, the continent proceeds toward savagery.

    And then one fine day the bourgeoisie is awakened by a terrific boomerang effect: the gestapos are busy, the prisons fill up, the torturers standing around the racks invent, refine, discuss.

    People are surprised, they become indignant. They say: “How strange! But never mind — it’s Nazism, it will pass!” And they wait, and they hope; and they hide the truth from themselves, that it is barbarism, the supreme barbarism, the crowning barbarism that sums up all the daily barbarisms; that it is Nazism, yes, but that before they were its victims, they were its accomplices; that they tolerated that Nazism before it was inflicted on them, that they absolved it, shut their eyes to it, legitimized it, because, until then, it had been applied only to non-European peoples; that they have cultivated that Nazism, that they are responsible for it, and that before engulfing the whole edifice of Western, Christian civilization in its reddened waters, it oozes, seeps, and trickles from every crack.

    Yes, it would be worthwhile to study clinically, in detail, the steps taken by Hitler and Hitlerism and to reveal to the very distinguished, very humanistic, very Christian bourgeois of the twentieth century that without his being aware of it, he has a Hitler inside him, that Hitler inhabits him, that Hitler is his demon, that if he rails against him, he is being inconsistent and that, at bottom, what he cannot forgive Hitler for is not the crime in itself, the crime against man, it is not the humiliation of man as such, it is the crime against the white man, the humiliation of the white man, and the fact that he applied to Europe colonialist procedures which until then had been reserved exclusively for the Arabs of Algeria, the “(slur)” of India, and the “(slur)” of Africa.

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    Reducing harm is when you install a nazi junta in Ukraine and send endless bombs to the IDF rape army👍

    I would have a shred more respect for you if you could just finish the sentence. You care about reducing harm...to yourself, at the expense of countless others. That's it.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    You really think the blue genociders will give a shit about trans people?

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  • [+] -8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Considering I wasn't as blatantly under attack under Biden as I am under Trump

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  • [–] 15 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    When Harris lost after a disastrous campaign trying to gain right-wing votes over they blamed their loss on us trans folks and threw us under the bus already. A democrat government is less bad domestically, don't get me wrong, but only slightly. Look into the ratchet effect.

    If you're unsafe in your state and you can afford internal migration you might wanna look into moving to a blue state with decent protections, unfortunately the federal government won't give a shit. Stay safe out there.

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  • [+] -3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)
  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (4 children)

    The genocide in Gaza was enabled by the Biden administration and continues with Trump. Deceptive of you to pretend that the Democratic Party is better on this. The Biden administration vetoed ceasefire multiple times at the UN.

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I didn't suggest that the dems are better on this. Just that trumps regime doing the same thing is more accepted here. Are you suggesting that the situation would be better if a different US president was in place at that time?

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  • [–] 12 points 9 months ago*

    Just that trumps regime doing the same thing is more accepted here.

    No, it is not accepted here.

    Are you suggesting that the situation would be better if a different US president was in place at that time?

    No, and that's the point everyone here is trying to make. Both parties are the same except for rhetoric and optics.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    Are you suggesting that the situation would be better if a different US president was in place at that time?

    Not meaningfully, and that's precisely the point. You're arguing for contradictory stances from one comment to the next because to believe Democrats aren't fascists too is logically inconsistent.

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    [+] -4 points 9 months ago (1 child)
  • [+] -3 points 9 months ago* (1 child)
  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (8 children)

    Remember, you can't vote and also resist at the same time! /s

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (7 children)

    Nobody ever said you can't vote. Plenty of 3rd parties and independents at all levels.

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago (6 children)

    That's just not voting but with extra steps. The US used first past the post.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    That’s just not voting but with extra steps.

    So voting for who or what we actually want is the same as just not voting. Got it. We HAVE to vote for fascists we're opposed to or our vote is meaningless.

    Sounds like a pretty fucking airtight argument for not voting then, dipshit.

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  • [+] -6 points 9 months ago

    Sorry, did you not manage to read the second sentence? Yes, voting third party is the same as not voting. A third party has never once won, and expecting that to change before the voting system changes is completely delusional.

    And honestly, I don't really care if you vote for the Democrats or not. But I do know, if your ass is too lazy and stupid to actually vote. You're not organizing. Honestly if you people spent half as much time actually organizing as you do campaigning for Republicans, we might actually be making some progress.

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  • [–] 7 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    And I'm sure the party that keeps winning due to this mindset is going to change the system, I'm sure their corporate donors would allow them to do that.

    Definitely. /s

    We can achieve a better system, there is nothing so exceptional about the US electoral system, especially the democratic party itself, that we have to confine ourselves to it.

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  • [–] -5 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    No, they're not going to change anything. We have to do that, and we can do that while still voting. No one in this thread is even arguing against anything I'm actually saying, you included.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago

    I have actually! I told you to vote 3rd party. Which is what I do. I vote for parties that actually reflect my interests.

    And when they don't win I continue doing what I always do, party work.

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  • [+] -10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Between a choice of Hitler and business as usual, might as well throw your vote away and vote both ways!

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    After winning the Nobel peace prize, Obama dropped an average of 30k bombs / year (80 per day) during his presidency, mostly on Muslim countries, 2, 3. In 2016 alone, dropped 26,171 bombs in the Middle East and North Africa, up 3000 from the previous year. The countries bombed include Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, and Somalia.

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  • [+] -7 points 9 months ago

    If they're both the same then what's the point of convincing people not to vote against the Republicans? Wouldn't it make more sense to focus on getting people to organize?

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