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[–] 185 points 10 months ago* (21 children)

How many are there?

It depends.

See, that's not helpful. The right answer is to direct someone to this GitHub project:

https://github.com/FabioLolix/LinuxTimeline

The releases page contains a 3420x12488 PNG to provide a simple and concise answer.

https://files.catbox.moe/7q4v52.png

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  • [–] 21 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    Doesn’t even have CachyOS. Smh

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    There are a few gaps. Seems it's not being as diligently updated as once was.

    There are even some old distros I failed to find on it.

    ... Didn't there used to be a text-searchable svg version of it?

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    Idk. I was making a joke though. A history of Linux chart is functionally useless for actually choosing a distro.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    A history of Linux chart is functionally useless for actually choosing a distro.

    I've used that many times to help me go distro surfing. Very handy for discovery.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (4 children)

    For a new person it’s useless. For anyone distro surfing why wouldn’t you just use distro Watch?

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (3 children)

    For a new person it’s useless. For anyone distro surfing why wouldn’t you just use distro Watch?

    I disagree. Not useless. Shows the lineage of distros. Facilitates broader awareness. Handy education. Very well accompanies the likes of distrowatch, at a long glance showing the forest past being lost in the trees and slowly trying to work it out. Expedites the new (or soon to be) user to better know their way around, and perhaps help them go towards whichever branch they prefer or away from any they garner a dislike for, saving time. See past the whataboutism false-dichotomy? Why not both?

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (2 children)

    Huh? A new user is going to have trouble understanding the base difference between gnome and kde. Flooding them with information about the history of all these operating systems will do nothing except to scare them off even more.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (1 child)

    You have experience of people being scared off? [Or mere hypothesis?]

    I have experience of people being helped.

    I wonder what's the extra nuance and criteria that decides which way that bifurcates.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago

    I mean I know how to choose a distro and there’s no way in hell I’d ever use that chart to choose one. In addition I don’t really need to ask my wife because I can guarantee she wouldn’t read a single line of it.

    It’s not a hypothesis that the reason people don’t switch to Linux is because it’s too difficult for the layperson. If you give them a flowchart that’s larger than any flowchart they’ve ever seen before, before they even touch the operating system, there’s no way in hell they’re gonna use Linux.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    If you know how to edit a comma-separated-value text file and how to submit a PR on GitHub, you could make the image larger.

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  • [–] -1 points 10 months ago

    I just have to assume you’re a troll at this point. That graphic is not helpful at all to anyone except those that care about the history of Linux. For everyone else it’s useless. I was making a joke about how one of the distros I use isn’t on there. I don’t know the history of my distro and honestly do not care. Any noob also would not care.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    That picture is also hosted on Wikimedia:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1b/Linux_Distribution_Timeline.svg

    Edit: just pasting the link now, making it into an embedded picture lagged and crashed voyager??

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    I always assumed webOS was Linux but I expected it to be a fork of Debian

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago

    WebOS was made by Palm Inc., one of the earliest and quite successful manufacturer of 'personal digital assistant' devices, aka smartphones without the phone part (and later with that too). They originally developed and licensed their own OS, PalmOS, but needed an upgrade for multitasking and such. webOS was thus intended for those PDA devices, and Debian would of course be a ridiculous choice for the task.

    I have warm memories of PalmOS: i was snappy as heck with the 16 MHz CPU, but that's largely because of the 'single-tasking' and quite limited app functionality.

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  • [–] 142 points 10 months ago (20 children)

    All you need to know is that, whatever you pick, you made the wrong choice and you will be roasted if you ever attempt to explain your decision.

    Unless you use Arch, then you have chosen correctly.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (11 children)

    Arch is utterly inferior because of its use of the Systemd "init" system, which is a bloated mess that completely disregards the Unix philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well, and shouldn't be forgotten for its sins and heresy. "Arch Linux" (Really Arch Gnu/Linux, or more preferably Arch Gnu+Linux (Unless you consider that Gnu runs on top of Linux, in which case it's Linux+Gnu)) cannot be taken seriously as a minimal do it yourself distro when it hinges on an software that has ties with RedHat, which has had a history of forcing their woke Wayland Display Server (Even though Xorg worked just fine, suspicious much?), as well as their DEI onto the entire Linux space - where politics shouldn't play any role. A WOKE company like RedHat has no place in the open source community. If you want to be a true and righteous Linux user, I recommend Either Void Linux+Gnu (What manly men like myself use) or Gentoo.

    Edit: this is satire, I clearly interact with these people far too often to have done this good of a job.

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  • [–] 24 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    It says something about how sad of a state the world is in when I can't tell if this is satire or not.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I mean, it's both good and bad. The amount of downvotes mean there is a large subset of folks who no longer recognize the twisting of stallman's rant. They are new to linux, and not super-serious-no-casuals-allowed penguin lovers. It's bad because I would love if everyone coming to linux could be as into it as I am. People who are invested into a thing take a much deeper look at things, and can appreciate it's soft and jagged parts and then properly make recommendations on how to change things.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    There has been I have noticed a marked increase in argumentum populum, argumentum ad lapidem and argumentum ad novitatem, with the influx of new users (in recent years), who seem to be coming to "Linux" like it's another platform; another groupthink team to switch to ["PC vs Mac"], rather than Linux just being a kernel that has a license that qualifies it as having a Free Software philosophy, and the free software (free as in freedom) being the reason to use it.

    Like they're still caught in, not just the fallacies and identity-attachment mass-formation malady, but also a consumerism and a dependence paradigm, rather than embracing the freedom to learn, to empower themselves and each other.

    It's daunting to think, many may not know they can look deeper into it, not merely just use the software, but also study it, and change it, and share their changes... like they don't know how we got here.

    Freedom forgotten is freedom lost.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    The age of the account makes it even more nebulous

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    Lmao, I just made this account, yeah. It's not my first Lemmy account. I made an account on lemmy.world back in 2023 I think (lost the account), and a PieFed account earlier this year, which I hardly used. I thought I could use a fresh start. (And sorry for the ambiguous satire)

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Edit: this is satire, I clearly interact with these people far too often to have done this good of a job.

    Imagine if The Onion had to say this.

    Your target audience understood, the people downvoting probably are Ubuntu users anway.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    Arch is utterly inferior because of its use of the Systemd “init” system, which is a bloated mess that completely disregards the Unix philosophy of doing one thing and doing it well, and shouldn’t be forgotten for its sins and heresy.

    So... do arch without systemd. (And not listed there, because its live-installer iso comes with systemd, is parabola linux, which does let you install with any of many init systems).

    Or as you say, any of many other distros that offer init-freedom.

    Though I'm not entirely sure if I'm replying to an instance of poe's law, intended to mock those of us who see things largely like you depicted. n_n Which is fun.

    PS,

    history of forcing their woke Wayland Display Server (Even though Xorg worked just fine, suspicious much?),

    Yes. Actively inhibiting development of Xorg. The tighter they squeeze the more of us slip through their fingers. Now there's XLibre (a Xorg fork, to continue (otherwise actively inhibited) patching and developing), and even Pheonix (a from-scratch implementation of the X11 protocol written in zig! ~ give it a couple years). Exciting times.

    Frankly I'm not even keen on the idea of pulse audio either. Funny how all this "Lennartware"'s so contemptable... from Lennart Poettering, who then went to work for Microsoft. Funny eh? Funny how it's almost like it's following the same ruthless dastardly insidious method of unscrupulously building a monopoly, via "embrace, extend, extinguish". Not a fan of pulseaudio, systemd, and wayland. Much prefer free software stays closer to being in human reach, so more of us can make use of the 4 freedoms of free software. So it's not just "free software" in name only, but in practice too.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Sorry, my comment was satire, though I do daily drive Void Linux (and very much enjoy runit, and I'm looking to try openrc). Also I'm not really anti wayland, but I do dislike the squeezing of xorg development, as you mentioned. I'm pretty excited for the Phoenix project, as I'm a big fan of Zig myself, and I'm thinking of contributing. XLibre, I worry may be a lost cause with how many bridges I feel it's maintainer has burned with so many people, but he's also very committed so we'll see.

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    [–] 215 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Proceeds to use it exclusively for browsing the web.

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  • [–] 38 points 10 months ago

    Choice is good when you can make an informed choice. Choice is bad if you are forced to make a decisions where you have no idea of the consequences.

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  • [–] 30 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    You think choosing your Linux distro is bad, imagine having to choose your electricity, water, internet, phone, banking, and insurance provider as well as your local councillor, workplace, school, career, entertainment, childcare, car, house, food, etc.

    This "love choice, hate choosing" is a really valuable thing to understand.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (3 children)

    That's why much more effort should be used to promote, towards the regular masses, Linux distros such as Linux Mint and Zorin that are built to purposely accommodate Windows(and Mac)-refugees into guiding them into the wider Linux ecosystem.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Problem is that Mint and Zorin don't take security as seriously as they should, and so I'm worried about the risks that would pose.

    Plus Zorin is a bit problematic for other reasons.

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  • [–] 22 points 10 months ago* (9 children)

    I’ve now gone down this rabbit hole several times now and installed several of them many many times over now just figuring it all out and finally getting a stable setup which took a few months.

    From my perspective after doing all of that : Chances are if you are not a developer, high end cgi artist, or specialized in tech, you might just need something safe like Ubuntu. At least just grab it to start. It gets you up and running, nice interface. Easy to use. Works for basic out of the box stuff making plex server, basic computing, house hold stuff. Could set it up for your technophobe friends and family and find it easy to just update and run. Big colorful app icons. Looks and works like an android phone for usability and easy to learn. Stuff even installs from a gui similar to how windows does.

    You’d only go deep on something like fedora/nobara with some serious intentions with a high end computer where you just couldn’t reach some goals on Ubuntu. You just wouldn’t go to these ones if you didn’t have to. Those reasons also rhyme with kde plasma reasons/Developer reasons where in you absolutely need specialized software. And you have to be comfortable with swimming in the bios often.

    If you don’t know and it sounds weird just googling it then just stick with Ubuntu.

    I’ve talked to people in the Linux community gatekeeping hard on others who don’t even know about why someone would need kde plasma. So that should tell you everything you need to know about the fanboys. And I’ve taken heat from them only to have them breaking their own brain on the idea that people actually use computers for simulations or just use computers for anything other than what they would use a computer for.

    so Take what they say with a giant truck of salt. Not even Mac users are as annoying as the some of Linux assholes I’ve met.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    slow clap Half these posts are shitting all over Ubuntu. It's fine for newbies.

    Gate keeping Linux bros are seriously hilarious. It's like silly No True Scotsman.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Fair point. Just remember that almost everyone that's in the Linux Desktop space has formed a subjective opinion based on past experiences, and the popular hate for Ubuntu is there for a reason. Sometimes it's a silly reason, sometimes it's a valid reason.

    Anyway, if I'm recommending a distribution for newbies it's going to be (1) something KDE-based (or possibly LMDE if they're a Mac convert) and (2) something as far away from Canonical's shenanigans as possible.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    former solaris / irix / ubuntu user here who works in graphics. is there a particularly good distro suited for someone doing davinci resolve, blender, inkscape, godot etc ? desktop use specifically.

    what properties in a desktop env and a distro should I seek and avoid?

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child)

    Frankly, the right answer is that pretty much any non-specialized distribution (e.g. don't use OpenWRT, a Linux distribution designed specifically for very small embedded devices) will probably work fine. That doesn't mean that they all work the same way, but a lot of the differences are around things that honestly aren't that big a deal for most potential end users. Basically, nobody has used more than at most a couple of the distros out there sufficiently to really come up to speed on their differences anyway. Most end users can adapt to a given packaging system, don't care about the init system, are aren't radically affected by mutability/immutability, can get by with different update schedules, etc. In general, people tend to just recommend what they themselves use. The major Linux software packages out there are packaged for the major distros.

    I linked to a timeline of Linux distros in this thread. My own recommendation is to use an established distro, one that has been around for some years (which, statistically, indicates that it's got staying power; there are some flash-in-the-pan projects where people discover that doing a Linux distro is larger than they want).

    I use Debian, myself. I could give a long list of justifications why, but honestly, it's probably not worth your time. There are people who perfectly happily use Fedora or Ubuntu or Arch or Gentoo or Mint or whatever. A lot of the differences that most end users are going to see comes down to defaults


    like, there are people in this thread fighting over distro because of their preferred desktop environment. Like, Debian can run KDE or GNOME or Cinnamon or XFCE or whatever, provides options as to default in the installer, and any of them (or multiple of them) can be added post-initial-installation. You wouldn't say that a car is good or bad based on the setting of the thermostat as it comes from the dealer, like.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    The fanboying to the point of blinders is maddening to deal with among Linux users.

    I don't have issue with Ubuntu personally. I still prefer Zorin over it though. It's a really nice "transition from windows" type distro and not as bloaty as Ubuntu.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    The fanboying to the point of blinders is maddening to deal with among Linux users.

    Alien who has arrived on Earth: "I've heard that you humans drive motor vehicles to get around. I should get a motor vehicle. Could someone tell me the best type to get?"

    Human A: "You want a Prius."

    Human B: "No, that's for tree-hugging, probably-homosexual hippies. You need a proper truck, a Ford."

    Human C: "Actually, Ford trucks are trash, what you need is a Chevy truck."

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Right, like they all have a point to a degree but really just need a little more info and put bias aside to focus on what each system does well and just connect the dots to the most appropriate to their use case.

    But then that requires social interaction, and having enough emotional maturity for putting aside personal biases. Two things on a relatively short list of things Linux doesn't usually do well at.

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  • [–] 33 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Worst when the newcomers chose Arch because they've heard is very configurable.

    Then complain that Linux is hard.

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    I kinda have the reverse problem.

    I started with arch and when I was making a beginner friendly linux laptop for my parents, I chose Mint and later switched to Zorin, and wanted to make everything as windows like as possible.

    My problem that I felt like wrestling and constantly having to look what is in my system etc etc. Felt really frustrating and like I knew way less than I thought.

    So IMO, distro hoppers are way more knowledgeable than many Arch users, merely from knowing how to wrestle with the system, where in contrast, all I do is install what I want and when I want to do something, I already know exactly and precisely what to look into.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago

    I had a coworker once boasting about his blazing fast Arch desktop, had him going on about how it's the best operating system, how lightweight it was, etc.

    He never once tried another distro and insisted he didn't choose Arch because of the meme. But he did recompile fastfetch to say 'I use arch btw'. The guy was a living breathing shitpost

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  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    KDE plasma gas been braindead easy on my ancient laptop as a first time linuxer! My next experiment is gonna be Bazzite on my desktop. Kinda seems like I'll find the differences as I try new distros, then be better suited to form a preference for myself. Then eventually I'll be on Arch btw...

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Then eventually I’ll be on Arch btw…

    Or maybe NixOS, or Gentoo, or Devuan, or GuixSD, or Slackware, or LMDE, or Calculate, or VoidLinux, or Puppy, or Solus, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, or, ...

    Arch is not the inevitable destination.

    Or maybe it is for you, but in a different form... such as Artix, or Parabola, or Hyperbola, or Obarun, or Joborun, or Xero, or Acretionos, or Manjaro, or Endeavour, or, or, or....

    But yeah! Good going, as a first time linuxer. :)

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  • [–] 31 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    ah, classic hangup. you're looking for Debian with KDE

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    [–] 54 points 10 months ago (28 children)

    There are four main flavors

    • Debian - For every day
    • Red Hat - For work
    • Arch - To tinker and learn
    • OpenSuSe - To German
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  • [–] 20 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (12 children)

    Also the additional flavours of

    • Nix – whole OS determined by 1 file
    • Gentoo – Arch but it takes longer
    • Alpine – small and simple
    • Slackware? – for old people
    • Void?? – like Alpine but not small and simple
    • LFS??? – like Gentoo but takes longer
    • AOSP???? – not even really Linux anymore
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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (4 children)

    Gentoo – Arch but it takes longer

    Supports full binary versions since december 2023.

    Slackware? – for old people

    Aka people who know what they're doing and what they want, noted.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    I've always wondered what the use case for Gentoo-but-binary is. I'm sure there is one, I just can't think of one.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Adding a binary package host allows Portage to install cryptographically signed, compiled packages. In many cases, adding a binary package host will greatly decrease the mean time to package installation and adds much benefit when running Gentoo on older, slower, or low power systems.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)
    • Void - the most BSD Linux (according to BSD people)
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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    the most BSD Linux

    Try CRUX.

    (Or KISS/Carbs, Side, Parch, Aeryn, Shebang, ... and there are other new ones I've forgot the name of, that have either BSD userland or BSD style ports packaging systems).

    I don't know which is "the most BSD Linux", but I suspect "BSD people" may not be the most familiar with the distroverse, having their own things to tend to.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago* (1 child)

    Gentoo really has nothing to do with arch. Gentoo in my opinion is more like Debian with compiling and rolling release.

    And what about Fedora? Last I checked it was wildly popular.

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  • [–] 28 points 10 months ago (12 children)

    also ...

    Debian - for when you want to wait two years

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  • [–] 29 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    The popular Debian based distros are up to date. That said, core Debian stable is indeed boring, but sometimes boring and stable is what you need.

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  • I use Kubuntu LTS for that exact reason. Even though I am an experienced Linux user for over 20 years, I don't have time to fuck around fixing my PC when something goes wrong. It's stable and it works. And, yes I game on my PC and it's doing just fine with my 3070 RTX NVidia card with the drivers provided by Ubuntu through their 3rd party driver system. No hassle, no crashing, just me using my computer doing the things I need to do.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Its not even stable though😭 I spent 6 hours fixing my networking on my debian 13 stable server, after it randomly got 90 percent packet loss with no explanation

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Definitely a brick of an operating system, boring as hell, but reliable and has been that way since ancient times.

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago

    The big advantage of Linux it’s fully customizable The big disadvantage of Linux, it’s fully customizable

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