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The Caribbean islands that give you a passport if you buy a home (www.bbc.com)
submitted 10 months ago by to c/mildlyinteresting@lemmy.world
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[–] 57 points 10 months ago (11 children)

Five of the region's island nations – Antigua and Barbuda, Dominica, Grenada, St Kitts and Nevis, and St Lucia – offer such citizenship by investment (CBI) from as little as $200,000 (£145,000).

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  • [–] 41 points 10 months ago (10 children)

    "as little as"

    Fuuuuck off. 🥲

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  • [–] 42 points 10 months ago (8 children)

    In my area, houses are like 1 mil USD so in comparison, it is cheap

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago

    Haha this is where people go, "Oh you must live in like a expensive city" and like damn bro, every city is god damn expensive now!

    Even in cheap cities, burger is $12+, rent is +$1000 per person, and good luck saving for that cheap housing that will be bought by companies to hopefully make a profit out of you when you borrow a 50-year loan.

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  • [–] 5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    I mean that house is cheap compared to the ones near me but I wouldn't be able to afford the air fare to visit it regularly

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  • [–] 26 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Visit it regularly? You visit the house once and live there. It's called moving.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I highly doubt the majority of the people buying are making it their primary residence but it would nice if I'm wrong.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago*

    The prices elsewhere is irrelevant. If there is 1 thing that is not movable it's precisely a house. One doesn't buy a building but rather a location. The price of real estate is about the infrastructure available.

    Anyway, even if it wasn't about location, location, location (the 1 rule in real estate) here the point is about citizenship, not actual houses. FWIW St Lucia is a beautiful place but... step out of a luxury hotel and see what happens. GDP per capita is low ($15K) and Gini coefficient is high.

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    • [–] 67 points 10 months ago (46 children)

    Sorry, but you couldn't pay me to live in hurricane territory.

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  • [–] 120 points 10 months ago (5 children)

    For many folks the possibility of a hurricane will be less terrifying than the consequences of staying in the U.S. if it continues down its current path.

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  • [–] 13 points 10 months ago* (4 children)

    Then there are floridians who have both!

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  • [–] 9 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Between the ecological, sociological, ecosystemic, and political dangers, I am quite literally dumbfounded whenever I hear that someone is willingly moving to Florida.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    The Keys seem chill once you get past the whole hurricane thing, but that may be because I've watched the show Bad Monkey one too many times. I've never actually been to Florida (or most places in the US for that matter, since I'm not American)

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    People on the internet are always so dramatic.

    Look, I get it. The political climate right now is frustrating and even outright terrifying. But I've lived for periods of time in incredibly liberal, left leaning states as well as incredibly right winged states. It is often really not that dramatic of a difference for day to day life living in one versus the other.

    I will concede that some places actually are more dangerous for people of certain demographics to live versus others.

    But like...take Florida for example...a terrifyingly right leaning state. BUT you have plenty of incredibly liberal pockets...like how Orlando is basically a gay haven lol.

    Hurricanes are really only a problem for people living in coastal regions which will have "storm surge" flooding (the sea level rises and literally comes into your home). But it's incredibly easy to not live in an area like that lol. It's also a danger to those in trailer homes (no idea why those are allowed in Florida...seems criminal). For everyone else, you could think of hurricanes as similar to "snow days" in the north haha.

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  • [–] 48 points 10 months ago (20 children)

    There are islands with 0-day residency requirements. You buy property, you never have to live there, and you still get a passport. You can AirBnB it.

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  • [–] 42 points 10 months ago (19 children)

    So all I'd need to do is sell out my morals and exploit my fellow citizens...

    Nah I'm good.

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  • [–] 27 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Is it the Airbnb part that compromises your morals? If so there are also options to make donations and start businesses

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  • [+] -49 points 10 months ago (15 children)

    Holy shit bro you're so morally superior. Oh god, I've never met anyone as moral as you.

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  • [–] 15 points 10 months ago (12 children)

    Feel free to join me over here on team people.

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  • [+] -25 points 10 months ago (11 children)

    Sorry, I don't need to get my validation by trying to prove my extreme levels of moral correctness on lemmy.

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  • [–] 16 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Found the landlord

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  • [+] -15 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Man, I wish I had that kind of cash. But nah, just someone who's sick of all the posturing on the fediverse. We get it, your horse is the highest. You win.

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  • [–] 12 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    I mean you're replying fairly rudely and dismissively when all anyone has said is they wouldn't choose to be a landlord. The horse is more of a mini pony

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  • [–] -3 points 10 months ago

    Why would these places be offering this program if it wasn't beneficial to them? The article does discuss the concerns some locals have that they're "selling their identity", but also states that these places have used the incoming money to build vital infrastructure, including hospitals.

    The user you're referring to then implies they have the moral high ground because they wouldn't participate because renting out or using the home for short term stays is problematic for the place they are from. Notably, this is not an active issue in places like Antigua. These homes are being built for this purpose, to support a program that is operating up to 30% of Antigua's GDP.

    So I will be dismissive because I think it's far more rude to sit around posturing on the internet with very little care for the context of the issues of the topical nations because you don't like tourists and Airbnb has created some issues for where you live. Nuance is pretty hard to come by on lemmy.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (3 children)

    Extreme?

    "I don't want to be a landlord because I think it's immoral" isn't extreme.

    "Kill all landlords" is extreme.

    You need a perspective realignment.

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  • [–] 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Being upset that others have morals they openly express has you triggered.

    Your contribution to this discussion is a joke. You are a punchline with everyone laughing at you.

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  • [+] -8 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Thank you! There's the internet I know. I know you're all assholes who would put someone down as soon as you possibly get the chance, so why do you all act like you're some sort of saints?

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  • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    put someone down as soon as you possibly get the chance

    This is literally what you did. You could have said nothing but you were compelled to call people out to put them down.

    Figure out why you did that and you'll have your answer.

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  • [–] 19 points 10 months ago (13 children)

    Most people aren't even living there, they're just buying into citizenship and a tax haven.

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  • [–] 7 points 10 months ago (12 children)

    How is it a tax haven? Even when becoming a citizen in another country the US still requires you to pay taxes.

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  • [–] 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)
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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    "Earned income" means W2 wages not capital gains or any of the other avenues rich people make their money.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Yeah essentially it's just a set of agreements the US has with other nations, each of which is different. But basically your overseas income up to certain amounts will be tax exempt in the US. This is to account for the fact that you're also paying overseas taxes and using overseas social services instead of US ones. You still have to file your overseas income, but you don't end up paying any taxes on it, unless it crosses the threshold.

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  • [–] 21 points 10 months ago (6 children)

    If "capital gains not taxed" didn't leap off the page at you, you are a poor slob who must actually have w-2 income? Keep up the good work while the wealthy sleep soundly on the tax code they bought and wrote.

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  • [–] 0 points 10 months ago* (4 children)

    The article is referring to Caribbean taxes not US taxes. If you have US citizenship, you have to pay taxes to the federal government regardless of where you live, work, or earn your money, and don't lose your US citizenship just because you become a citizen of another country.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (3 children)

    You can in fact, simply give up US citizenship.

    If own the lottery tomorrow, and needed a “no capital gains taxes” state to be a citizen of, this would be sorta tempting.

    Also noteworthy, the IRS doesn’t come after international citizens. Sure they can go after you domestically, but if your accounts are not American accounts and your assets are in other nations, you can just live your life not filing taxes without going back to the US as a citizen.

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 child)

    Obtaining a CLN to demonstrate relinquishment of U.S. citizenship has become a lengthy process with high barriers. The total cost of renouncing U.S. citizenship for a person in France, including the cost of preparing the related tax paperwork, has been reported to be € 10 000 – 20 000 on average.[29] Allison Christians of McGill University and Peter Spiro of Temple University have suggested that the complexity and cost of the process, especially the $2350 State Department fee and the potential penalties for failure to file related tax forms, may constitute a breach of the U.S.' obligation not to impose arbitrary barriers to change of nationality, particularly when applied to accidental Americans who have few genuine links to the United States.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relinquishment_of_United_States_nationality

    It's not simple at all and while you can just not file taxes, that's no guarantee you'll get away with it much like someone living in the US not filing taxes.

    Also lottery winnings is not capital gains income it's gambling income and they typically take the taxes out before paying you your winnings. Even casinos do this if you win over $1500 at once on a machine for example.

    Lastly, the premise being put forth here is that someone is using the Caribbean citizenship as a "tax haven" while still living and earning money in the US, not someone leaving the country and never looking back.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Even if you do file with the IRS while overseas, it's much more difficult for them to check things. And it could also be that you don't have to file the capital gains exempt things in the overseas territory, which would give you a clean tax bill from there to give to the US.

    Either way, it's the article that made the claim that this was something of a tax haven. I don't think anyone here is a tax accountant with enough knowledge to know how that works.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    You can also just go back to the US. It's only working in the US, paying and subsequently filing taxes, that would cause the IRS to start looking into you.

    Apparently if you're in such a situation you need a tax lawyer, not an accountant. Accountants are mandatory reporters to the IRS, so if you tell them you've not filed taxes they have to report you, while laywers have client confidentiality and would be able to help you try and smooth things over with the IRS.

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  • [–] 8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

    Well, unlike tornados or earthquakes....hurricanes have a 3 to 5 day warning for you to prep.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago (1 child)

    If there’s no evacuation route, does that matter? Finding a place to stay “uphill” is mighty different from “drive Inland ten hours”

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Uphill is fine. In florida, there is no 'drive inland for 10hours'. All you do is get away from the coastal water. You cant drive upstate because of traffic. Did that 1 time and got stuck on the turnpike for 15 hours just to go from miami to orlando, usuall 2.5 hours.

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  • [–] 1 point 10 months ago

    Im more concerned with the US conquest of central and South America. Puerto rico is having a buildup of military presence, as are other US outposts around the world. I would love to live in the Caribbean, and it's surprisingly affordable, but nah. I dont want to be in Europe for similar reasons relating to Russia.

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    • [–] 10 points 10 months ago (7 children)

    I do wonder what the point of this is? It says visa free visits to parts of Europe. How long can those visits be? You couldn't easily relocate anywhere outside the islands on a permanent basis?

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  • [–] 25 points 10 months ago* (4 children)

    The article isn't helpful for most of the target audience.

    Citizens of the Carribbean nations in the article can currently enjoy up to 180 days in the EU visa-free. The same exact visa-free window as citizens of the US, UK, Canada, Australia, Japan, and New Zealand are granted.

    Citizenship to one of these Carribbean island nations can certainly help you leave North America, but it doesn't help you get any more access to the EU than you currently have. It just helps you move to...the Carribbean.

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago (1 child)

    Can you do 180 days as a US-ian, and another 180 days as a Caribbean-ian?

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    Hey...wait a sec now.

    Arrive in EU, go through customs with US passport, 180 days later go to the airport, walk straight to customs and go through with your Carribbean passport. Rinse and repeat every 180 days? Hmmm...

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  • [–] 3 points 10 months ago

    It's easier to move to italy spain or portugal. a lot of small towns there are becoming ghost towns and they have incentive programs for that. Why move to hurricane land to have an EU visa if you can mode to the EU

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  • [–] 2 points 10 months ago

    Definitely an edge case, but my wife is a legal permanent resident and from the tiny bit of “just out of curiosity” research I’ve done, it seems like she would be eligible for and able to benefit from the expanded travel opportunities these programs offer.

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    • [–] 6 points 10 months ago

    Sounds great tbh. I am actually tempted at those prices

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