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[–] 104 points 11 months ago (6 children)

It’s not for people that build their own PCs. It’s for console people that are Steam-curious. People that bought the Steamdeck but don’t have a PC. I know a few of them.

I’m excited to see an expansion away from MS and Sony and see what improvements Steam makes for Linux. Steam (combined with Win 11) is a big reason why Linux is growing in use and development.

I like Steam as a whole but I do wish the PC market was a little more decentralized.

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  • [–] 23 points 11 months ago

    This is what makes me laugh so much. I had an argument a few years ago with a guy who shat on low-powered PCs because his gaming rig was 100 times more powerful.

    And like dude, this shit isn't for you. The world doesn't revolve around your needs.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    Specifically it's designed to be attractive for people that want a bang for buck, console like experience. and not for the PC enthusiast that build their own system. The whole point is precisely not to compete with self built systems. Why would they? These people are already mainly steam users.

    I so so so hope steam is gonna stay the Monopoly they are. They are literally the only company imho that have the humanity to keep gaming fun and affordable.

    Yes I know how much they charge for developers to be able to sell. But also if you know what that's about in truth it's also not a bad thing.

    Hail GabeN

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    As for Steam staying the monopoly, the biggest thing I worry about is what happens when Gabe dies or retires. I want to believe that the next person will guide them down the same path, but I’ve been burned so many times before.

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  • [–] 84 points 11 months ago (10 children)

    Until we know the price point, it’s really hard to judge if the SteamCube is going to be a good entry point for Console > PC gaming, but I’m hopeful. Mostly because I don’t have time to build a PC and don’t wanna pay out the nose for pre-builts.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago

    My local PC hardware store offers assembly and setup services for ~20€. Includes installing and updating the OS and drivers, as well as stress testing to verify that the components perform as expected. More places should offer that option, really. Especially if they also sell pre-built PCs that are assembled in-house.

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  • [–] 14 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    I hope the price is not that much high, companies actually pay a lot less the hardware so Valve can just put a lower price than the market theorically Like instead of a 750€ they can put a 700€ or even 690€, who know

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah. I’ve watched a couple tech YTers break down the price and they seem to land on 699 or 799 for the price point. 799 might be too high for me personally as someone looking to replace my Xbox S and OLED switch with a Deck and Cube.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    One thing to note is that the next Xbox will very likely be more expensive than the Steam Machine, regardless of what Valve actually prices it at. This is because the Microsoft CEO is demanding that Xbox make a 30% profit, which means that they can't sell the consoles at a loss anymore.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Looking at the specs of it, it'll likely be around PS5 level of performance for PS5 Pro pricing.

    Exact pricing will have to wait to see what happens to the price of RAM, because that shit is mental right now.

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  • [–] -5 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    You have time to play video games but you don't have time to build a PC? Doubt.

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  • [–] 154 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

    No, the interesting part is not that Valve is releasing a box.

    The interesting part is that they are releasing a desktop platform linux OS that is basically a commitment from the largest and most integrous digital distribution platform in the world that has an unshakable chokehold on gaming, past, present, and future. It's a declaration of war upon Microsoft, in a time in society where the people also desperately need a champion for home computing.

    The interesting part is Valve is positioning themselves to potentially do an incredible amount of good for a lot of people fed up with publicly traded companies min-maxing extraction of money and forced reliance upon inferior service and software.

    It's not a box with steam on it. It's an OS option for those of us that want to game in peace.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Even with the most cynical point of view making gaming more viable on linux is a profitable option for valve, because microsoft most likely wants to get a piece of the game store market too, and they have the means to fight unfairly

    The end result is good either way I guess

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    Holy shit this comment succinctly depicts exactly what has me rock hard for both the frame and the machine.

    Fuck the bastard big tech corpos, and gobless lord GabeN! May he revolutionize the home computing landscape! Down with microsoft!!

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  • [–] 73 points 11 months ago (11 children)

    Bold of you to assume you can build an equivalent PC in terms of price/performance without knowing Steam Machine's price. Good luck with RAM

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  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    Plus the economy of efficiencies, steam will fix issues that cause frustration on their known setup of hardware as it is known parts and a larger audience

    Building your own pc is great, but the variation in performance makes for a mixed bag of experience playing the same game on different setups (different GPU, drivers etc etc)

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  • [+] -1 points 11 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 12 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I’m not sure what your point is here exactly, but for one, you’re underestimating the new prices for upper end DDR5 RAM severely; and secondly guess what GPUs come with a bunch of?

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    [–] 251 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (22 children)

    “I can build a better PC For less money.”

    How would you know? They literally haven’t announced a price, yet.

    EDIT: The only official word we’ve had on pricing is that it will be priced “like a PC”. Their stated reasoning is that because it’s a general purpose PC on an open platform, making margin back on games isn’t a guarantee.

    If they priced it too low, there would be nothing stopping volume purchasers (like companies) buying them all up at scale because it’s the best compute / $ and then not using them for actually playing games.

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  • [–] 86 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Step 1: already have a better PC

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago

    I think everybody should be happy then. Imagine you have a good PC, then you don’t have to buy the steam machine and yet you can still buy your games on steam and use the steam controller on it.

    Why are people upset?

    “I can build a better computer for cheaper” great then just do it and be happy you’re not wasting money.

    No one is forcing y’all to buy the steam machine.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Probably won’t be cheaper than a PC. Otherwise people are just going to buy it just for cheap compute.

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  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago

    As long as it's not sold at a loss, that's not a problem for Valve.
    And if they want to they can sell it like they did initially with the Steam Deck, one purchase per Steam account.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    I've heard this so many times. I don't think so. It's still going to be more expensive than a cheap corporate desktop that can't play games, and it's not going to be that good for compute compared to powerful datacenter hardware. I'm assuming some YouTube said this and everyone is repeating it, but I don't think it makes sense. The comparison is always made the the PS3, but it's a very different time and hardware is dramatically different.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago* (10 children)

    It's a safe bet that this will be true. It'll be priced like a prebuilt PC which are always a little more expensive than building yourself

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  • [–] 24 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Lol prebuilts were actually cheaper when GPU prices skyrocketed and it may happen again thanks to RAM prices

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Prebuilts are often cheaper due to the manufacturers selling bloatet crap as "preinstalled OEM Windows" where they get paid to include a bunch of unnecessary software into their images. That way, they can sell their PCs for cheaper while still making a profit.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    So things you can easily remove by resetting Windows, ok got it.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I think the argument is the Steam Machine won't get that advantage because it's running Linux out-of-the-box. There's still some stuff that could be bundled, but I expect it not to do so for money. I don't think the Deck does.

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  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago

    One thing to note is that the GPU that Valve is using is apparently a custom one that was created for a cancelled Microsoft project or something, and so Valve is probably getting a better deal on it than we ever could because they're the only ones buying it off the manufacturer.

    But regardless, anybody who is willing to build their own PC is not the target market for Valve. The target market is the other 80% of Steam users and potentially console players. A coworker of mine was just talking the other day about a friend of theirs who is replacing their PS4 because Sony is shutting down the PS4 servers, and they were telling them to wait and get the Steam Machine and get out from under Sony's thumb.

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)

    I kinda think the controllers and size justify a slight premium over building as well though. At least in this stage (mid 40s) of my life.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    I'm riding into my fifties - and given recent pricing ridiculousness with video cards and now ram, my desire to build my own is significantly less. No cost savings and then adding the time investment starts to become less attractive as years go by. I was looking forward in the next year or two to upgrade my circa 2020 build. I've held off due to abhorrent video card pricing - Love me some games but I've been playing more single player non-demanding games (metroidvania types).

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  • [–] 57 points 11 months ago (22 children)

    The difference between the Steam Machine and an off the shelve gamer pc, is that Valve has created a viable pathway to move away from Microsoft's dominance in the PC gaming market. This is Valve showing to PC hardware makers that a PC gaming market without Windows is possible. Valve just needs to prove that consumers are willing to buy a Linux gaming machine, so the Steam Machine is the litmus test. Microsoft is Valve's biggest threat to the survival of their business. Since MS's anti-consumer behavior will push consumers away from PC gaming. Valve wants to create a PC gaming market where MS's choke hold has been destroyed. Remember this isn't Valve's first attempt, the first Steam Machine was released when Win8 was released where MS tried to push the Windows Store as the default way to download software.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    I would say that investment in Proton and general Linux support was already driven by the strategical consideration that Microsoft might try to lock-down the PC gaming market.

    In that light, the Steam Machine is another part of the same strategy.

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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (19 children)

    But you can build a PC with linux. It’s every bit as possible. Upgradable. Repairable. Functional. Powerful.

    You are cheering about yet another proprietary box like a console that affects repairability and how much of it you actually “own” it just because it has linux on it. Yet more “dumbing down” of games to conform to a console spec. You’re blind if you don’t think this will affect games developed to be sold on Steam.

    I’m all for linux advancing in gaming, becoming more mainstream, and replacing Windows, but cheering for the demise of PC’s in favor of a proprietary box is a bad idea.

    E: this is a very interesting discussion, but I can’t keep replying to the same responses. Lemmy criticizes walled gardens, lack of tech knowledge, anything that isn’t F/OSS, anything that limits ownership of the hardware or the OS…yet here we have people advocating for a proprietary box that has potential to steer game development (yes, toward linux, this is good) and confine it to the steambox’s spec. just because linux good and a semi-benevolent dictatorship is offering it. While I’m not against this console, anything that a BigCorp produces that has the potential to be a walled garden and indirectly constrain development should be met with guarded attitudes and absolutely not cheer the expected demise of PC building or use.

    E2: pile it on boys. If lemmy is still here in a decade and Steam does some “bullshit” with the ‘Box I’ll read your complaints as the custom PC market shrinks and gets more expensive thanks to the console-ification of gaming. Consoles aren’t for you per-se. They’re to cheapen hardware, OS, and game development costs and make profits. I’m not against its existence, but leave replacing PC gaming out of your cheering for this box. Good luck.

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  • [–] 16 points 11 months ago (11 children)

    Most people hit a wall in their life where they get home from work and they just want whatever entertainment system they have to just work. They do not want a side hobby to get to a video game. Linux as it is now will never be the regular. If steam can make a console like experience that a layman can use, they can save PC gaming for all of the gen Z and A folks who only had a phone or console and refuse to learn windows.

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  • [–] -5 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    I’m kinda surprised to read this. As much as Lemmings deride people for not wanting to change to linux, not understanding the basics of PC’s, not willing to learn tech, falling into walled gardens…here you are. Rationalizing for people who don’t want to learn tech and accepting yet another potential walled garden.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    How walled is it really though, it's literally just a linux PC. SteamOS is the (arch-based) distro, and Valve is just a system integrator selling what are effectively pre built systems. Steam Machines are meant to have competitors selling their own systems with their own hardware choices.

    This is no different than buying a gaming PC from Cyberpower, Alienware, Asus, etc except that the OS wouldn't be windows.

    Of course, as it stands there are no other competitors but that's just because we're in uncharted territory. If the steam machine sells well, then other integrators will make their own versions (like we saw with the Lenovo Legion & ROG Ally).

    The idea that this is a "walled garden" when you can install any software you want, swap the OS, install cracked games, etc. is ridiculous. This kind of thinking is exactly why people think there's too much infighting in the Linux community. Everyone talks about how they want Linux to become more mainstream and to dethrone windows. But when something like this comes around to actually do that, you all complain about how awful it is

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  • [–] -2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Ok, in the context of the original discussion, there is no need to deride PC gaming if all the steambox is is just another PC and no reason to treat it as anything special other than a cheap-ish PC preloaded with linux.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    It's a reasonably priced gaming pc designed for couch use and pre loaded with a couch friendly os. As someone who prefers to game from her couch I can totally see myself weighing it if I was in a position to not miss the money and to take advantage of it. Especially if I think of when I did my last major pc upgrade.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    It is a realization of the populace. If most people wanted the full control that Linux provides, Windows would have died years ago.

    Consumer Linux isn't going to be a thing until it gets packaged neatly as a product to consume.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    We are a very niche group. This product will appeal to a lot of people who aren't here, but also to some who are. In the end, this will be good for PC gaming as a whole, and it will probably either hurt Microsoft or inspire them to make some serious changes. I'm betting that this also makes people a little more curious about their hardware and software. The steam deck proved to me that leaving windows could be pretty simple and not a downgrade. I've been looking to build my own steam machine ever since, and now I might not need to depending on the price.

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  • [+] -8 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Your response in a comment chain that derides PC gaming, says it would be good to get away from PC gaming, says people don’t have time or interest in building PCs, people don’t want to understand tech, is “this will be good for PC gaming”?

    Ok.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    Go to anyone who mainly game either on consoles or a non-hand-built computer this. They won't do it, because it requires they spend a couple dozen hours researching not only parts but also distros, which is something they know they already don't care about. I think you might be underestimating the expertise you have in this subject by having it as a hobby if you think that's easy.

    yet another proprietary box like a console that affects repairability and how much of it you actually “own” it just because it has linux on it

    Even if I assume the steam hardware is as proprietary as any other random piece of hardware (don't think that's true), the reality is that I easily trust Valve 2-10x more in this regard than a Sony / Nintendo / whatever prebuilt to actually deliver a product that doesn't ship my data off to an advertiser and let's me replace the ssd without hardlocking itself. The Steam Deck has already done a better on this.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    The existence of the Steam Machine does not stop people from building their own Linux gaming box. The Steam Machine just proves that it is possible to do so. Like many people’s first PC was a pre built machine and then their subsequent machines were all custom builds. The Steam Machine can do the same for Linux PCs.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    I've built cars and motorcycles. It's far easier to just buy a car or motorcycle.

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  • [–] -4 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    That isn’t what the context of the discussion is about. Please read my edit and other responses.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    The reason you are being piled on is because Steam, the Steam deck, and most likely both the Frame and the Steam machine, are NOT walled gardens. It is not a console. Valve actively encourages people to use the hardware wherever and however you want, install EPIC, install Heroic, install GOG games, do whatever you want. You can buy a Steam Deck and play only and exclusively pirated games, and Valve won't stop you, they can't stop you, because it is just a computer. And it is open, and it is yours. This goes completely against all proprietary software and hardware tenets, and it is incompatible with your argument.

    It is a big corporation, and it is a benevolent dictatorship. But Valve is not, and it does not try to behave like a monopoly, it is not proprietary (most of the development work on gaming in Linux is done under FOSS licenses), and it is not a walled garden.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago

    We have to start somewhere. People can buy this box that just works and dip there toes into the linux environment and learn how things operate. When they hit the limits of the proprietary box they will be more comfortable upgrading to a PC of their own running a Linux OS. Most people don't want to deal with all the hangups that come with trying to switch to Linux. The only reason I'm doing it is because the hangups that come from Windows are reaching the tipping point and I'm good with computers.

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  • [–] 48 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    There's a hidden advantage here apart from moving away from Microsoft, or having 1st party controller support.

    Game devs will have a precise target to optimize for.

    If enough steam machines and steam decks are out there, it simplifies porting software since you have a handful of fixed targets to hit. A studio could easily buy a few of these appliances for testing and development, and know for certain the product will run as intended. It's a luxury currently enjoyed by consoles, and it really does help their dominance in their respective niches.

    This also helps smaller studios since the bare minimum means targeting a known steam platform, rather than pulling machine specs out of thin air and taking their best shot. It's a much easier problem to solve and takes a lot less time and money.

    I think there will always be room for high-end gaming, but as long as you're "steam machine 2025 compatible" or whatever, you know what you're going to get.

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Yep. My friend is an indie game developer and while his studio's next release is "Windows only" (and consoles) they are testing to make sure it runs well on the Steam Deck via Proton / will be Verified.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    The next release is Windows Only. However, it includes consoles and Steam Deck verified...

    Did I read that correctly? What are they skipping, the Commodore 64?

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