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[–] 172 points 11 months ago* (15 children)

That's fine. I'll ask my wife and her friends, a mix of NPs, PAs, and RNs, if they recognize the current administration as professional.

Answer will be no and they can kick rocks.

This is also clearly be design to cut peoples access to education as well as reduce the total number of healthcare workers. A double whammy.

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  • [–] 66 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    My partner is a nurse here in the Northeast. Unfortunately a lot of her coworkers are Trumpies.

    Most of them are practically disengaged from politics and only follow their (male) partner's political beliefs. If they're from one of the surrounding rural (white and low income) areas, the chances they're like this are higher. Not shockingly, a fair amount of their partners are cops.

    It's strange and disheartening to hear about nurses she works with who flaunt that they won't get the covid vaccine, who denigrate patients with substance abuse disorder, who verbalize that they would rather not treat a trans person, and who treat black and brown folks like a different species. But it's definitely a trend in nursing culture up here.

    Its especially difficult for my partner who chose this path in large part because of her acute sense of empathy. The state of healthcare is just bad here.

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  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    No no, see, they're part of the demographic that's predestined for success because this is their country, so it'll all work out for them, no matter how many things this administration does to strip them of their title, success, income, benefits, rights, and dignity.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Most of them are practically disengaged from politics and only follow their (male) partner’s political beliefs. If they’re from one of the surrounding rural (white and low income) areas, the chances they’re like this are higher. Not shockingly, a fair amount of their partners are cops.

    Also, some of them have scary levels of religious fanaticism.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    Nurse Practitioners, Pennsylvanias, and Registered Nurses? 🤔

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    No Pants, Partially Attired, and Rarely Nude

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    So basically most female Wimbledon contestants?

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  • [–] 66 points 11 months ago (20 children)

    “The department determined that the following programs were professional: medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, optometry, law, veterinary medicine, osteopathic medicine, podiatry, chiropractic, theology and clinical psychology. This meant that physician assistants, nurse practitioners, physical therapists and audiologist were excluded from the list.”

    Theology and clinical psychology? I didn’t even know that was a career choice, let alone one I could take out a $200,000 loan for.

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  • [–] 68 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    lol chiropractor and theology are professionals.

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  • [–] 38 points 11 months ago (13 children)

    Clinical psychologists are PhD level therapists and are very good at what they do generally

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  • [–] 44 points 11 months ago (12 children)

    I think they were pointing out the lack of an Oxford comma, which makes "theology and clinical psychology" seem like one thing instead of two.

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  • [+] -18 points 11 months ago (10 children)

    Both are based on holy books with no measurable scientific basis, so I guess it tracks.

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  • [–] 15 points 11 months ago (9 children)

    Butthurt by the subjectivity of life, this one

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  • [+] -7 points 11 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (7 children)

    Lemme guess, schizophrenia isn't real, huh

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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    That would be treated by a psychiatrist, not a psychologist.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (5 children)

    Psychiatrists use the DSM, dumbass. It's literally written by the American Psychiatric Association.

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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    The post I initially replied to referred to clinical pshychology, not psychiatry. Am I the dumbass here because I can keep track of a conversation?

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 46 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    biggest employer in many states btw, it's like they want the economy to crash

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  • [–] 80 points 11 months ago (3 children)

    It’s an attack on women. Nursing has historically been one of the only accepted paths for women to make a living wage. It’s an equivalent wage to the construction or police profession that is typically male dominated. I expect to see a lot of attacks on women’s ability to be self sufficient in the coming years. Subjugation and forced birth is the goal.

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  • [–] 97 points 11 months ago (8 children)

    Fellas, is it good when I stop funding nursing education in the middle of a nurse shortage

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  • [–] 19 points 11 months ago

    They want to reduce the needed learning so they can pay people less to do the same job but pass it off as some streamlining process to address shortages. They're still going to charge the same for care but pay less to those who provide it.

    Taking an actual problem and looking to address it from a capitalist view point so that line always goes up.

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  • [–] 9 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Is it good when i, a crumbling octogenarian vote away all the systems keeping me tethered to this mortal form?

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Making nursing school less affordable will affect the number of nurses in like 4? 6? Years. You as an octogenarian may not expect to need care that far in the future

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  • [+] 34 points 11 months ago* (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I hope you dipshit Lemmy leftist kids are prepared to actually work

    vote people out

    not get lost down some third-party fantasy

    You should take your own advice.

    The US had their chance to vote this out. It's going to take a hell of a lot of anti-establishment actions from this point forward, and no, canceling your Disney+ subscription won't be enough.

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  • [+] 31 points 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    Hell, Canada NEEDS medical professionals

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  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    I wouldn't get to excited. It also needs have a have en effective way to validate the credentials of medical professionals. The current system is extremely inefficient and leaves great professionals out.

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  • [–] 29 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    I feel like this is related to H1B visas. The Trump admin wants to ban them and one barrier I think was most of our nurses for hospice etc are immigrants (I'm filipino, this is known), so banning H1Bs would impact nursing. This may be their way of banning H1Bs while keeping the nurses around. Unsure of how nursing relates to the H1B program, I'm a software engineer my experience with it is from coworkers having the visas.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Its for RNs who want to become APRNs/NPs. "Professionals" meant things like doctor and lawyer, and required a grad program. It won't affect nursing as an associates (RN) or bachelor's (BSN).

    That being said, Healthcare CEOs fucking LOVE them some APRNs, so this will get changed back within a year I'd bet.

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  • [–] 22 points 11 months ago

    I hope he gets a nurse with a fake degree the next time they have to rush his fat ass to Walter Reed.

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  • [+] 19 points 11 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 13 points 11 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago (2 children)

    There is unemployment already for CDN nurses.

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  • [–] 30 points 11 months ago (6 children)

    When the MAGA shit stains visit the ER, I hope the first nurse they see is a full blown liberal.

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  • [–] 37 points 11 months ago* (3 children)

    Why do you want them to have qualified care?
    No give them a MAGA nurse, and tell the nurse it's a liberal, and let them eat each other.

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    MAGA is the easiest crowd to be a nurse and care for. “Here’s your ivermectin and bootstraps to pull yourself up by.” Problem solved. If they can’t get better with either hard work or horse pills then they aren’t fit to survive…

    As for the rest of us, I’m keeping my dope ass mRNA vaccines thank you very much.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    Agreed, but lets be real, none of them would ever set foot in a publicly available health institution. All high-end private care for the rich while we get to pay out the nose for band-aids and autism tablets.

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  • [–] 30 points 11 months ago

    I want to stop being surprised but I can't imagine the sheer depth of inhumanity and monstrosity of these people, and I am someone who grew up with a lifelong hatred of Nazis and their mythic-levels of cruelty.

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago

    So it's better than that now right? Right??

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  • [–] 17 points 11 months ago* (12 children)

    Actually not sure how I feel about that. They simply classified it for the same caps on student loans as the rest of us, rather than the higher one for roles like doctors.

    Both caps are bad, for all of us. Our college education rates are already far too low, and now we’re trying to make college more unaffordable?

    But I guess I assumed a nurse’s education was similar to a four year degree, although I don’t know. Is it not? The nurse they quoted claimed 15 years of college: surely that can’t be normal. Isn’t that more than doctors get?

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  • [–] 31 points 11 months ago

    There’s a difference between an LPN, an RN, etc. Some nurses do have doctorates, which yeah, might be about the same amount of education that a doctor typically gets.

    There’s a perception that nurses are “lesser” than doctors - but nursing is fundamentally a different skill set.

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago

    The nurse they quoted claimed 15 years of college

    15 years of experience, it seems, and since I'm pretty sure most nurses aren't in a union, what do you want to bet her wages/cost of living ratio actually went down over those 15 years. A relative of mine is in the same business of IV hydration, and it's definitely because the potential money is way better than her other options.

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  • [+] 11 points 11 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 8 points 11 months ago

    Think you're a little mixed up with your time lines :). ADN is a 2 year degree. BSN is a 4 year degree. RN is a license, no specific timeline (other than having to obtain ADN or BSN to be eligible to sit for the NCLEX).

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  • [–] 5 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Again, y’all are are getting too hung up on the label. No one is saying they’re not critical. “Professional” in this case seems to mean “qualifies for more student loans, like Doctors”, instead of “qualifies for student loans like everyone else”. I’m not saying nurses aren’t professional, I’m saying it looks like their education costs more similar to mine than to a doctors.

    AND Y’ALL ARE MISSING THE POINT. Everyone getting hung up on whether this insults the people forming the core of our healthcare system are missing the part where they’re limiting student loans for everyone

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  • [+] 1 point 11 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 11 months ago

    So new limits on student loans

    • $50k cap for most of us
    • $200k cap for “professionals” like doctors
    • no more parent plus loans

    Even public universities are more than that everywhere (a few like Massachusetts has means tested free tuition)

    Only the very wealthy will be able to afford private school

    Given the loans taken out by doctors I know, that’s not even close

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  • [–] -1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

    Nor should a doctor "lift a fucking finger doing bedside work." There are a lot fewer of them than nurses and they need to diagnose and manage multiple teams that are taking care of patients. No doctor has time to come and tuck you in and bring a glass of ice chips.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    Most nurses also don't have the time. It's usually nursing assistants bringing you ice chips. Nurses do a lot of what many people might imagine to be a doctor's purview, or for which they might not realize the complexity and importance. E.g., it's not a doctor carefully cleaning and dressing your wounds so that you don't develop a systemic infection, nor is the doctor watching your vital signs or adjusting intravenous medication infusion rates while your organs balance on a knife's edge, nor is it a doctor who pumps you full of epinephrine to restart your heart after you've slipped off the mortal coil. Doctors diagnose and order the treatment, but nurses carry it out, and that too requires specialized knowledge and skills which necessitate intensive education. Ask any nurse, and they'll tell you that nursing school was one of the hardest experiences of their life.

    But that's all kind of irrelevant to the issue, which is loan eligibility for graduate-level education for nurses. That is, for roles like nurse practitioners and nurse anesthetists, whose job functions and responsibilities significantly overlap with those of medical doctors. Much of the conversation in this thread, and the article itself, confuses that. Associate and bachelor level nursing degrees (the degrees held by most nurses, and the nurses doing the bedside care) weren't eligible for the loans this rule impacts in the first place.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago (2 children)

    There’s only a shortage of doctors because the AMA restricts the number of medical colleges so that the number of doctors is artificially kept low so that they continue to make super high wages.

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  • [–] 3 points 11 months ago

    Even progressive countries with excellent medical programs have a chronic shortage of doctors these days. So it's not nearly that as much as you want to think.

    Learning medicine is a long and hard road and there are so many fine details you need to be perfect at. And nothing less than perfection is expected from your teachers, peers, and patients. And even yourself.

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  • [–] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

    Actually, the problem is the number of residencies. Once you graduate from medical school, you MUST complete an accredited residency program to be able to practice independently. The number of residency programs is controlled by Congress because residencies are funded through Medicare, and the last substantial increase in the number of residencies was when they added 1000 more in the Covid Omnibus bill.

    It's actually a growing crisis because more medical schools are opening and existing ones are increasing their class sizes, but the number of residencies isn't keeping pace. This means that more and more people are going to be medical graduates with no way of obtaining a medical license without a residency and therefore no way to pay off their student loans. There's a couple stories every year about medical graduates that couldn't get into residency or couldn't complete residency that end up dying by suicide, but it gets pretty effectively swept under the rug.

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    [–] 7 points 11 months ago (1 child)

    Sure let's cut back the amount of available nurses to an already struggling count of nurses why not. May as well just say "don't be a nurse, we don't value it." Getting the same treatment as teachers now it seems like.

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  • [–] 7 points 11 months ago

    Don't fuck with the nurses, bro.

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    Time to move to Canada!

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  • [–] 6 points 11 months ago

    Minutes since a trump friend/sycophant said something incomprehensibly stupid: 0

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  • [–] 4 points 11 months ago

    Welp maybe this is his way of saying he doesn’t need a nurse

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  • [–] 10 points 11 months ago

    This is misgovernance in the extreme, but the following is not the best quote to support that point, emphasis mine:

    One nurse posted through the IVs By The Seas TikTok account, a clinic offering mobile IV hydration and aesthetic services in New Jersey: "10 years of schooling... $210k in student loan debt... 15 years of ER and Trauma experience which included preventing physicians from making error at 3 a.m. and now... my degree isn't considered a professional degree. Cool."

    It’s cool that they have a nurse doing that, but hangover cures and spa treatments don’t seem like a great use for those ten years of schooling (now, the ER and trauma experience is obviously valuable). No shade to her, and I completely understand that an entire career working as an ER and trauma nurse would be demoralizing, but this is a perfect snippet for people who support rolling reimbursement back to quote to show that it’s not really needed.

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