I recently asked the /c/Android community what information Google has access to on stock Android, assuming the user is not using any Google apps, and was told Google has full "unstoppable" access to the entire device, including Signal messages, the microphone, duckduckgo search history and anything displayed on the screen at all times.

Does this mean that encrypted messaging is essentially pointless to use on Android? I'm a newb here so go easy on me.

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[–] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

https://mastodon.world/@Mer__edith/111563865413484025 this is the response from the president of the Signal Foundation to the question around push notifications and if google/apple can access your messages via this method.

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  • [–] 50 points 1 year ago* (9 children)

    Currently, no (other than the microphone). Android apps are sandboxed and the Signal app encrypts its data so it isn't readable from the outside. There is however a real concern if using keyboards with predictive text, because the keyboard knows what you're typing into Signal.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Android apps are sandboxed

    FWIW, they're not sandboxed from google play services:

    The Play Store Services process has access to your precise location at all times, the motion sensors, networks, hardware identifiers (including IMEI), contacts, passwords, the entire storage space, call logs, access to other apps’ data, and more.

    Accordingly, google would have access to the Signal data on your phone. However, I don't know whether the encryption would provide a measure of protection against google. GrapheneOS by default does not use google play services, and provides a sandboxed version for people who need the functionality.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    I believe notifications would be accessible. Note that i don't mean the push notification backend mentioned by Doomerang, but the actual notification that goes into your status bar (which is all processed on device). That would be readable by the OS in theory.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    I will leave just this info here

    Technical Data

    Subject of Investigation: Google Play Services
    Number of Permissions: 277
    Operating System: Android 4.4.2 and above

    List of Permissions

    3.1. Automotive Systems Control

    Access to data and control of vehicle components via Android Auto/CarPlay:

    • Power windows
    • Tire pressure monitoring system
    • Rearview mirrors
    • Power system
    • Mileage data
    • Central door locking
    • Driving mode management
    • Seat adjustment
    • Vehicle speed data
    • Lighting system (headlights)
    • Battery
    • Climate control

    3.2. User Interface Manipulation

    • Embedding into application activities
    • Application substitution
    • Application icon modification

    3.3. "Chimera" Component

    System component of undetermined purpose.

    3.4. SMS Management

    Complete control of text messaging functions:

    • Sending messages
    • Receiving messages
    • Reading messages
    • Creating messages

    3.5. Root-Level System Privileges

    Complete device control at root-access level.

    3.6. Application Data Access

    • Access to all activities
    • Ability to embed into activities
    • Access to contacts

    3.7. USB Management

    Control of USB connections and data transfer.

    3.8. Identifier Access

    Access to all system and user device identifiers.

    3.9. Screen Lock Management

    Disabling keyguard (screen lock system).

    3.10. Mail Services Access

    • Access to email
    • Access to voicemail

    3.11. Network Function Management

    • Enabling/disabling network interfaces
    • Background data download
    • Modification of network settings

    3.12. Wi-Fi Management

    • Access to saved Wi-Fi passwords
    • Wi-Fi password transmission

    3.13. Audio Recording

    • Microphone audio recording
    • "Capture audio hotword" function (keyword capture)
    • Continuous audio stream monitoring for hotword detection

    3.14. Geolocation

    Complete control of location functions:

    • Location determination by all available methods
    • Independent enabling/disabling of geolocation services
    • "Allocate aggressive" mode (aggressive resource allocation for location determination)

    3.15. Payment Information Transmission

    Sending payment data without specified recipient restrictions.

    3.16. Camera Control

    Access to device camera.

    3.17. Telephony Function Management

    • Making calls
    • Access to call history
    • Control of telephone connections

    3.18. Permission Management

    Manipulation of other applications' permissions:

    • Permission backup
    • Permission sharing
    • Permission revocation
    • Permission restoration

    3.19. Device Lock Management

    • Device locking
    • Device unlocking
    • Password protection bypass

    3.20. Biometric Authentication

    Complete control of biometric identification systems:

    • Fingerprint scanner
    • Facial recognition (Face ID)

    3.21. Notification Management

    Manipulation of system notifications:

    • SMS notification substitution
    • Call notification modification
    • Messenger notification modification

    3.22. Telephony Function Access

    • Access to telephony module
    • Call management

    3.23. Bluetooth Management

    Control of Bluetooth connections.

    3.24. Security Key Management

    • Encryption key substitution
    • Password reset

    Google Play Services is one of many pre-installed Google system components. A standard Android installation contains 30-50 additional Google applications with similar or complementary permission sets.

    IMG_20251111_032718_114 IMG_20251111_032717_685 IMG_20251111_032718_240 IMG_20251111_032717_935 IMG_20251111_032717_569 IMG_20251111_032717_629

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    Think lower level. They own your device keyboard, so they can technically read whatever you type. Whether they send that to the mother ship, I don't know, but it's a risk. That's one example, but same holds true for anything low level, like mic, camera, etc.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Google Keyboard has network access, so it can theoretically log every keystroke and send it somewhere.

    Personally, I installed GrapheneOS which lets me deny network access to the keyboard.

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    i had been using chinese phones until recently and they all prompted for "secure keyboard" or "regular keyboard" for passwords/pins; but i suspect that the secured keyboard option had a backdoor installed. lol

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Signal is far better to use than WhatsApp or any other messaging app controlled by big tech like Apple, Google, Microsoft, Google (Alphabet), Facebook and so forth. But Google knows what you write on your phone on Android. Don't kid yourself on that point.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago*

    Simple answer is no but...

    Stock android, like all commercial OS is inherently spyware. Google does have access to it and in theory could do anything, but that is only "in theory" because as far as we know stock android does not come with keyloggers and data exfiltration tools, it spies on you in the way of "telemetry" meaning that Google decided that certain data is useful and so they "anonymize" it and collect it, this data can be: wifi networks, location, phone usage, and more.

    So in theory it is possible that stock android either already has spyware to collect personal app data that no one ever noticed (very unlikely) or that google will push an update with such software (somewhat unlikely)

    Now if you use other Google apps, especially gboard and google assistant, you are definitely sharing SOME amount of peesonal text with google.

    The reality is that you should consider your threat model, which means to consider what kind of risk you are willing to take and what kind you are willing to make a change to avoid. It is perfectly reasonable to say that you are not willing to use gboard or google assistant, but you are willing to use the stock android, understanding that you are sharing some data with Google, but most likely no app data (such as your texts in Signal)

    Same thing about choosing a messenger. WhatsApp is made and managed by Meta, a company that lives off of user data. So even though WhatsApp claims (and seems to really be) end to end encrypted, you can still be sure that Meta is collecting everything they can, which probably means: who you are texting, how much, at what time, how much you use the app, location, and much more. Signal is open source and managed by a non-profit that does have a good track record, and because ut is open source you can also choose a different client (like Molly) which further reduces the Signal Foundation's hold on your chats (if you fear that) So you could say that because all of your friends use WhatsApp you are willing to accept that Meta will collect a bunch of data on you, or you could decide that you are not okay with that data collection and therefore choose Signal. It is up to you. In any case, E2EE is a must as it protects you from unauthorized access from hackers.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    The system controls its apps. When the system's not libre software, they control it, not you!

    Keep Signal. You're helping others escape WhatsApp.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Short answer: Yes

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  • [+] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] [S] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Neither, some manufacturers modify Android considerably. By "stock" I mean essentially what is on Pixels and many other devices, but not for example, Samsung.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I would not expect any privacy from any Android, alþough if þere is any to be had, it'll be from a deGoogled image.

    I have not heard anyone claim to have done a complete audit of Android, but even if it has been done on e.g. Graphene, what Google installs on Google phones is anyone's guess, and it's not paranoia to assume Google has backdoors.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    There's measures they could use in theory, but if you switch keyboard app away from Google's and set private text mode, enable screenshot protection, etc, then you should be good.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    But other comments are saying the exact opposite, that Google has full and compete access to the device and its hardware at all times.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    In theory it does. In practice, people would figure it out if this was common practice. So if the functionality is built in, you need to ask yourself if you're a particularly valuable target.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Screenshot protection doesn't protect you from the system seeing your screen. They're running software with kernel-level access to your system, anything that they want is available to them.

    As to what they do with this level of access, I could only speculate.

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