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[–] 148 points 1 year ago (34 children)

I miss the days when $500 could build a "console killer"

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  • [–] 100 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    These days its like 1500. But you still get all the advantages like being able to do whatever you want with it like using productive software to actually do work. Streaming, editing, rendering, 3D modeling or printing, game dev, etc

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  • [–] 35 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    You will also most likely still make that difference back over the cycle of one console generation through better game deals and no subscription fees for online play.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm still a PC player through and through, but I will say that the game subscriptions that give you access to AAA games (albeit sometimes a bit after launch) is pretty enticing. Obviously you get better sales and whatnot through Steam, but not having to shell out 50-70 dollars for a new game is pretty cool.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It is nowhere near 1500.

    More like 800.

    For a nice PC that will last you a while 1100 (for like a 9600 + 9060XT)

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I would say a console killer has to outperform a current gen console. A Xbox Series X has a GPU equivalent to something between a 9060XT and a 9070XT. So yeah in total 1100€ is probably gonna get you something comparable.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    That was a brief period when consoles were way over priced for the components they had.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    That period repeats every 3-5 years approximatly towards the end of a generation but before the new generation is announced.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    We're at that point now. Hard to believe, but the PS5 has been out for five years now.

    The reason it's not happening this time is because Moore's Law is dead. The original formulation was that cost of integrated components would be cut in half every x months. The value of x changed around over the years, but settled on 24. That cost factor is gone and probably won't come back without a major breakthrough.

    There are improvements in the size of integrated components (which often gets mistakenly labeled as Moore's Law), but they aren't getting cheaper anymore.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Ps5 sets my record for most dead joysticks, followed by the Nintendo Switch joycon disaster.

    PS4 I had a few controllers die, but that was parts physically breaking.

    PS3 I never lost a controller.

    I have to go back to N64 for any other broken controllers where the sticks die or buttons break.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    PS3 I had to get a new controller, but only because the dog ate the analog sticks lmao. Still using the Mini USB cable it came with 🫡

    I had to replace the Micro USB port in two DS4s. I don't even blame Sony for it, Micro USB is ass. I do blame them for both controllers getting stick drift later though.

    I don't use the PS5 enough for the controller to break.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    There was a generation where it was true at the launch of the console. That's the period I'm talking about. Beating a 5 year old machine is hardly worth bragging about.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    We are talking about price relative to performace, not performance in general.

    But the cost of the hardware is anyways not so relevant when the price difference of the software easily makes up the difference.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Nah it's the GPU market. Cryptocurrency briefly exploded and now AI is sucking up all of the GPU manufacturing capacity. Back in 2019 I got my RX580 for $175. The AMD 9070 that released this year is a tier down from that and had an MSRP of $550, but an actual price more like $650. The sweet spot of value PC building has shifted from $750 to $1,500 in just a few years. Some of that is just general inflation that affects all parts, but roughly half of that increase is just from the GPU.

    It's impacting consoles too. Consoles uses to get cheaper over time, with both price drops to existing models and new, cheaper models being released (Sony's Slim models, things like the Wii Family Edition and Wii Mini, the DSLite, etc). Looking at this generation... The original PS5 with a disc drive debuted at $500 in 2020. The "Slim" version also debuted at $500, and just got a price increase to $550. They released a PS5 Pro at $700, and just increased it to $750.

    Nintendo is doing it too. The Switch was $300 for its entire life, and now that the Switch 2 is out consumers would typically expect a price cut to move the existing stock. Instead, Nintendo raised the price to $330. The OLED model went from $350 to $400, and the Lite went from $200 to $230.

    And of course Microsoft is in on it too. It's more complicated to write up since they have different storage variants of the Series S|X, but for example a Series S 512GB was $300 at launch (For some reason I remember seeing them for $250, but maybe that was a Black Friday sale or something). Now it's $400!

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Aren’t a lot of those price increases US centric due to asinine tariffs.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    They've increased in other countries too. The PS5 digital edition costs £70 more today than it did at launch. In 2024 Sony increased the Japan price of all PS5 versions by ¥13,000.

    The tariffs aren't helping, but this has been a trend for years. The gaming console market is not very volatile- prices changes in the US usually happen once every few years, not every few months. The tariffs keep fluctuating all over the place and I would not be shocked if there are more pricing adjustments for consoles specifically next year.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, but all those people buying wonky 2GB "PS4 equivalent" GPUs ended up pretty quiet when games later in the generation started using more and more VRAM.

    The PS4 CPU was a joke, but it could use a lot of textures.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    It really depends on whether you want the newest games with 128k graphics. I game on a 5 year old Thinkpad* and a first gen switch and am happy about it.

    *granted, it was refurbished and still like 2700€, but the same laptop would be cheaper today

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The real reason I'm better than the console plebs is that I still play multiplayer on twenty-year-old games.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah, I just played CS 1.5 with my colleagues during a break. That shit just never gets old.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    When 1.6 came out I was stubborn and refused to install Steam which was needed for it. But I eventually did and it eventually grew on me even though recoil and everything is a bit different. Still using my 22 year old steam account.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    No one but the once in a blue moon whales are spending 15,000 on a rig. The average rig I build for people is under 1,000 and the setups I see online are usually near there too.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    I have a dual 5090 threadripper rig with 192 GB of RAM and it cost $10k. To get to $15k on a consumer build you'd have to actually be trying to waste money.

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  • [–] 56 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    What console sells for 400 bucks?

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    My gaming PC is also a digital audio workstation, a photo editing platform, a video editing platform, a home theatre PC, and a platform for spreadsheets and financial planning.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago*

    Good, but nowadays the difference for flagship spec is more $800/$3000.

    My console from 2020 runs games about the same as PC hardware from 2018. If you built a 2018 spec PC today it would beat the Xbox Series X and PS5, but unlike the consoles, PC components have reduced in price.

    Which means the difference with available hardware and matched SSD size would be $650/$900

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah, but I can use my PC for other things as well (I’m only using my PC for gaming)

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    I have editing stuff on my pc. Music, art, video.
    But since i got my steam deck i realize how much i only used the pc for games.

    Eventually im going to Linux the thing. But I'm dreading the time sink that'll be.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago*

    Divide PC by 10 and add 300 dollars to console.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    some $2k beats a console and you get more games, cheaper price, and can do whatever you want with it

    so if you're already getting a computer, it just makes sense

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    This argument made more sense 20 years ago. Now there's a lot more people who just don't need a desktop.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    idk about that. I have both and I still prefer using the desktop at home because I can get a much nicer performance out of it than connecting an external display to the laptop. Even for ordinary things like watching a YT video it makes a difference.

    people might not need it, but no one who's not a game developer needs a console either

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    "Needs" is a tricky word, here.

    People want to play games. If they don't need a desktop otherwise, it's fine to choose a console for games. The number of people who need a desktop is a lot less than it was 20 years ago.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Honestly, the strongest advantage of PC, if you don't mind a little tinkering, is modding. I've modded on console before, and it's usually a pretty difficult process, and limited, compared to PC. The thing I find a little silly, is I did build the super expensive PC, and most of what I play would totally run on a console if they were open platforms.

    But seriously, Celeste: Strawberry Jam was probably my favourite game of last year. I'm looking so forward to the release of the Fusion Collab, likely in the next year.

    I've been playing Archipelago runs with friends over the past couple months with Hollow Knight and Nine Sols, and they've been a blast.

    Emulation is also wild, tons of games I've enjoyed in the past, playable again with incredible mod support, I'm looking very forward to playing Kaze's Return to Yoshi's Island when it releases, and had a blast with the Majora's Mask Recomp earlier this year.

    And steam sales are ridiculous, a lot of these games are much cheaper much more regularly on PC.

    If I'd spent say, 500$ on this PC, it would be very easy to save that amount in the price of games, and how many fewer games you'd need to fill your time with all these options, in just a couple years, assuming you play regularly.

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  • [+] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    It's seriously so good, cannot recommend it enough if you enjoyed the original. It also smoothed out the difficulty curve enough, bouncing back and forth between the modded levels and a fresh playthrough of the base game, that I was finally able to beat the Farewell DLC and 100% the game. Without too much difficulty, even, the modded levels were a joy and had such excellent practice rooms to learn the necessary advanced skills as I went up the ranks.

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    [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    I've never been happy with the performance of my gaming PC for the cost, always seems like it should perform better, but the real reason I don't buy consoles is because I want to be able to upgrade my hardware but still play my old games.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    $400 plus a subscription for the privilege of playing online + some amount of money for a computer anyway

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    I gave up on PC gaming years ago. Turns out sitting on a coach and being 10' ft away from a screen is way easier on my body and my eyes than being hunched over a desk 1' away from a monitor.

    Also no driver incompatibility bullshit. Most console games just work w/o me having to custom edit .ini or other files.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Also no driver incompatibility bullshit. Most console games just work w/o me having to custom edit .ini or other files

    What century do you think this is?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    last pc game i loaded was fallout 4 a few years ago. required like 2-3 hours to get it to run without crashing.

    every old game i have from gog... all require custom mods to work. usually have to pull up a thread in the forums that has the solution and it' always some custom edit. otherwise the game crashes repeatedly.

    my ps5 can play the same old games and they just... work. zero effort required. zero crashes. also looks a lot nicer on a 60" OLED than on a 24" LED.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You can plug a PC into a TV and even use Xbox and PS controllers if you like. Can have the PC auto start Steam in Big Screen mode so you'd seldom need to use a mouse+KB (trackballs or keyboards with trackpads are best in this scenario). Nothing wrong with console gaming though (well, besides supporting all the non-free software, locked-down systems, and shit companies; but most games you likely play are these as well).

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago*

    that's too much work. i have to setup controller profiles. i have to update drivers. i have to custome mod drivers or game files to get them to run.

    my playstation... just fucking works. zero effort required. download game, play game. everything is done for me. my time goes into actually playing the game.

    baffles me that y'all can't see the mass appeal of that simplicity. not everyone is a linux nerd who wants to write custom drivers to play a game or load buggy emulators.

    most peopel just want to play a game and enjoy it. not deal with endless bullshit.

    There

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Guys, you don't have to downvote someone because they have an experience that happens to be many standard deviations away from the mean. This is what consoles are for. Nintendo still shines for people like this :)

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    Over 7 years, you'd have to pay $560 to play online on a PS5, assuming they don't increase the price again. The cheapest PS5, without the disc drive (which is a bad decision if you like cheap games), costs $500.

    You can easily build a PC more powerful than a PS5 for $1060, and that's before you factor in cheaper games.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Over those 7 years, you get 252 free games for the PS5. Meaning the average value of those games has to be like 2.2 for the subscription to pay for itself

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    They’re not free, you had to pay to access them. The 252 are useless unless you play them and not just a half-dozen titles you like.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    And once the sub stops you lose access to the games.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    You know what you do get to keep? The games Epic gets giving out to bribe people into using their launcher. I've hoarded over 200 games from them, of which I've played maybe 30.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I've stopped because either it's been trash games or it's something that I'd rather play on steam.

    Even their exclusives I decided to just wait on because the epic launcher blows.

    I don't think I'm in the majority but I think a non-negligible amount of people would pay a premium to not use epic.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Where are you living where you can get a good console for $400?

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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    The consoles are "cheap" because the controllers, games, and subscription services are expensive.

    It's far, far, far cheaper to game on a PC in the long run. You can buy a pc capable of playing many games for as little as $300 (gmtek or similar micro pc sporting high performance amd cpu). If you want better graphics, you plug a gpu into that for $260 or so (Radeon 9060).

    Steam is crazy cheap. Multiple sales a year, and if you don't like a game you can get a full refund. Free AAA games every week as well from GOG, Epic, and rarely but surely, also Steam.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I'll second this, actually. I used to hate on PC gaming for around a decade or so because it always seemed to prohibitively expensive to me compared to a console. But after building my very first PC with used parts off ebay for around 300-400€ in total, I think, I can confirm that it works really well overall.

    Most of the games I've played so far perform really well, some even play on highest settings (and that's with just a 1080 ti), and it's a PC, so multitasking, office work, homework and whatnot are all possible. Running the OS and games off an SSD makes loading times quite fast compared to the PS5's SSD, sometimes even faster.

    And I haven't spent a single Euro on games because of a plethora of 🏴‍☠️ options, which is possible on console depending on the console, but ultimately hinges on jailbreaking your console and voiding a potential warranty.

    Overall, I'm very pleased with my PC experience right now. Ever since building the PC, I haven't played on console, and that's coming from someone who was playing on console pretty much exclusively since around 2017

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  • [–] -4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    My Xbox and PlayStation both came with a full normal controller, and console games are constantly on sale. I have absolutely no idea what you’re trying to get at here.

    The point of the submission is that PC dumbfucks don’t know how to compare apples to apples. Console gaming is objectively superior due to the benefits of things like warranty, consistency, drivers, software, etc.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Ah yes, all the benefits of having the privilege to pay $10 a month to play online, only have enough storage space for like 5 games with no expansion options, barred access to the vast majority of games, and limited options for voice chat and input devices.

    But I guess if you’re like 12 and all you play is 2k/madden/fifa/maybe COD and your parents are paying for it then it’s probably fine.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    And yet none of those things applies to your superior. Interesting!

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