There is no negotiating to be had on the issue. Remove the cuts to healthcare or fuck off.
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Just three Democratic caucus members voted for the bill: John Fetterman, D-Pa.; Catherine Cortez Masto, D-Nev.; and Angus King, I-Maine.
Hear that Nevada and Maine? You should probably deal with your traitors.
Everybody already knew about Fetterman
Listing Maine’s as independent makes it odd to list them as Democratic.
Keep it shutdown and keep the core message that GOP can end this if they cared about health care for normal americans.
Keep up the pressure and rally around the message.
Fetterman is a disgrace.
Good. Hold the fucking line.
I just feel bad though now that others have to stand in a food line. But I agree.
I was just telling my best friend that I think this shutdown is going to go on for six to eight months. Possibly to the point where the pot boils over and the government gets thrown away because it was closed for so long.
At least, one can dream that after months of bitter pain and suffering, we might possibly get people who care about others running a government. But that’s a whole hell of a serving of pain and suffering before we get there.
Fuck it, let’s general strike this place. Medicare for all with the govt reopen and all those critical services back or nothing ever happens again.
Governments are the product of the people. There is no divine or natural laws that triggers "an election". A government is simply created from thin air when a group of people (any group of people) get together and say: fuck the old system, we are putting that in the trash and signing a new social contract.
Of course, there's virtually never unanimity of agreement over this social contract in one geographic area, so that social contract is only as binding as the force used to put it in effect.
Realistically, 6 months+ of government shutdown in the US will likely cause a collapse of the USA as a single unified federal entity, since the federal government effectively rots. At that point, all bets are off. A fracture of the US is very possible.
In parliamentary democracies the budget is automatically a vote of confidence. If the government can't pass it, an election occurs. Nothing shuts down because the system is still operating on the existing budget that was already passed.
Is that written into laws? No. But you know who made the original government? People who decided to make their own shit.
We have more information and better access to new decisions. We can simply decide to start over collectively and start once again. We don’t have to do things because that’s the way they have always been (in our individual lifetime).
Surely, my ideology will rise from the ashes!
These are the vibes I'm getting
I will accept literally any other ideology before fascism. A monarch, a communist dictatorship, a tyranny of the majority, pre-fascist crony capitalism, futarchist prediction markets, primitivist tribes, machine rule, you name it. Go nuts. The bad ideas we haven't tried might not end up with secret police disappearing people.
I get it, I just don't think leveling the building full of asbestos is the best plan of action. If that metaphor makes sense.
Communist dictatorship is off the table, too. I mean, there is China's communism that probably isn't quiet as bad. Damn, we've seriously lost ground here. Anyways, markets, communism, etc, are all based on trading labor for resources. We're quickly approaching a world where robots are doing much of the labor. Humans who are not rich, selling sex, or some other service not acheivable with robotics are going to be very fucked.
All the Internet surveillance will give any opposition a heads up on organizing.
Is that a real possibility? How does that actually work
Generally but not always with violence
I feel like a dramatic dissolution should be a possibility considered, but I don't really expect us to come out of it with a new people-focused government. Likely if the budget never gets passed Trump decides he doesn't need Congress and just starts spending money as he wishes. He'll even start with funding something the people want, then once it's established that he can just spend money and no one will stop him, he'll move on to the instruments of oppression. When the military is directly being paid by the president, we'll see how much of their oath is really to the Constitution.
Who would throw it away? Most likely the states, possibly the military, and least likely but possible, a popular movement of the people.
In the event of the collapse of the federal government the states still have their individual governments. It'd be painful everywhere and especially painful in most red states but we wouldn't necessarily have a total political collapse.
I do agree that it's extremely unlikely to happen.
You would almost certainly see some of the states refederalizing very quickly if that happened.
I guess you missed the whole last paragraph I mentioned where we can do a general strike and start helping ourselves. But sure, whatever you say bub.
But your entire last paragraph, on the practicality and realism spectrum, ranks just a bit lower than "worthless, idle wishful thinking".
It's no more or less serious than if you'd said we should all just join together in song and force aliens to show up to fix all our problems.
Fetterman is a Democrat just like manchin is a Democrat, so basicly not a democrat.
Manchin was a democrat from a very right wing state. He never hid his views and that he was going to be very right wing democrat.
Fetterman said he was a progressive, ran as a progressive, and went hard right wing when he got in office. Yeah the brain damage changed him but I think he was always a Republican in Democrat clothes.
Goddamnit Fetterman be an actual democrat again for 5 minutes.
Why hasn't he been kicked out yet?
Seriously. He needs to be censured and removed from the party. Make him run as an independent.
What's the process for removing a sitting Senator?
He hasn't been kicked out because he won the election, that's how that works.
The Senate can vote to remove a member with a two thirds vote. The last time it happened was 1862.
Need the ability for recall elections IMO
I mean…we have an impeached, pedophile, multiple convicted felon as president. The wheels for moving someone unfit out of office have been painted over with gold glue made in china, for make America great
Kinda think we’re past ballot and closing in on ammo box
Well the literal answer to your question is guns
However what I thought was pretty clear in context is that I was referring to the Democratic party, not the Senate nor existence.
Because there are lots of Fettermen. He's just the most visible one.
Even if Fetterman was primaried, there would just be a new rotating villain.
Hope they downgrade the US’s credit reputation yet again.
Last time they did that, sales of Treasuries actually went up. Quixotically, the downgrade hurt the stock market. People divested of equities. And then they needed to move the money to a safe place. So.... uh.... Treasuries.
Fuck me Angus, et tu!?
Seems like he thinks the shutdown is actually better for Trump-
I read his comments on the vote there, and I just don't agree with him. Somehow if the government isn't shutdown the Democrats will grow a spine? Idk, it just seems like his reasoning being they can cause chaos,..'gestures broadly'... Seems like we already have chaos
They have balls?
PA has some of poorest, worst quality of life conditions I have seen in this country. They really need to boot Fetterman. Jesus, wtf?
....what? Are you sure you've been to Pennsylvania?
Fetterman can get fucked though, I'm with you there
Yeah, generalizations aren’t great. I’ve seen beautiful parts too. I have driven through and have family from small towns out in the country
I’m gonna have to vote for Fetterman in three years, aren’t I.
That depends on whether someone in PA can assemble the resources needed to primary him.
I honestly dont expect him to run for reelection. The guy seems to absolutely hate being a senator after having a stroke. He definitely despises being in the public eye or the center of attention to some degree. He also seems to not really have much awareness of things going on around him in general anymore. He really should not be in such a stressful position in his current state of health, and I doubt he wants to be. Pride is probably the sole thing keeping him from stepping down. It definitely isnt his love for being in the role, that is for sure
He's a shitty town mayor. He got some TV time back then for his 'crazy antics'. You might be right the national spotlight is hopefully too much for him.
But you also don't need to work a real job while you're elected. That could be a bigger draw.
Pride is probably the sole thing keeping him from stepping down.
I think that sums up so many of the Democratic Party's problems.....
Or if he just decides to call himself a republican like he acts anyway.
Oct 16 - Daily Beast
Top-ranking Democratic Party officials in Pennsylvania are gearing up to run against Sen. John Fetterman in a 2028 primary contest, according to a report.
Big names in the state who could well run against the increasingly embattled incumbent include House Representatives Brendan Boyle and Chris Deluzio, along with former Congressman Conor Lamb, Axios reports, citing multiple inside sources.
Axios added it was not clear whether Fetterman, who is understood to have ambitions of running for the White House, plans to run again for the Senate or the presidency in 2028.
Fetterman texted Axios saying, “enjoy your clickbait!” and requested “please do not contact” in response to follow-up questions. He also shared an article citing him as one of “the least Trump-aligned Democratic lawmakers in the state.”
Lmao at that last sentence..
Yeah, I got Brian Fitzpatrick as my rep, the "#1 Most Bipartisan Member of Congress" for however many years now. Still votes with Trump 51% of the time, and it's only on money things he'll break with Republicans on, very rarely ever is it a moral thing.
Meanwhile Fetterman is polling better with Republicans (around 60% favorable) compared to with the Dems (around 50% favorable).
Want to come up with a compromise on farm aid or disaster recovery? Go right ahead. Compromising on genocide and using the military on US soil? You better not reach across the aisle on that if you want my support. Fetterman deserves to be judged by the company he keeps.
"Please do not contact"?!? Dude, you're a senator and that's the press. You're in the wrong job if you want to be able to ask to not be bothered by the press.
I still can’t tell how much of this is sarcasm. I literally chortled out loud about half way through reading the quote, I think around where it said run for White House. Then the rest I didn’t know if I was supposed to be taking seriously.
Lol who knows? I mean, I'm sure he's still better than we would have got with Oz, but that presidential run thing made me laugh too. You already lost half the people that voted for you, and as we've seen playing across the aisle isn't getting anyone anywhere.
Who likes him?
well yeah. they know once we hit november first its going to be more obvious to more folks what their bend over bill really does.
I'm sorry, but the rules for how your government works are so confusing.
And requiring budget bills to pass every year or you entire government shuts down is a bug most other democracies patched out last century. (You just make everything roll over by default if you can't pass a budget). The US Government seems to be constantly in shut down. It's kinda dumb folks, it doesn't need to be this way.
I could have sworn I heard that the 100 person US senate only needs 51 members to pass a bill, but I vaguely heard they don't want to do that because it overrides the option to filibuster?
What???
Very lost over here
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