WELLINGTON, New Zealand (AP) — On a visit to New Zealand, FBI Director Kash Patel gave the country’s police and spy bosses gifts of inoperable pistols that were illegal to possess under local gun laws and had to be destroyed, New Zealand law enforcement agencies told The Associated Press.

The plastic 3D-printed replica pistols formed part of display stands Patel presented to at least four senior New Zealand security officials in July. Patel, the most senior Trump administration official to visit the country so far, was in Wellington to open the FBI’s first standalone office in New Zealand.

Pistols are tightly restricted weapons under New Zealand law and possessing one requires an additional permit beyond a regular gun license. Law enforcement agencies didn’t specify whether the officials who met with Patel held such permits, but they couldn’t have legally kept the gifts if they didn’t.

It wasn’t clear what permissions Patel had sought to bring the weapons into the country. A spokesperson for Patel told the AP Tuesday that the FBI would not comment.

US FBI Director Kash Patel visits New Zealand, immediately provides local officials with 3d printed, potentially operable firearms...

... which is a crime, that could carry up to a 3 year prison/jail sentence in NZ...

... and would also potentially be somewhere between a misdemeanor and a felony depending on where you are in the US, as 3d printed firearms are generally without serial numbers and are thus 'ghost guns', which are often illegal if unregistered, if not outright banned, though this differs from state to state and city to city.

(Oh also, I guess he is so concerned about properly investigating the death of Charlie Kirk that he is uh, personally looking for leads in New Zealand, or something.)

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[–] 38 points 1 year ago

So on the next visit, arrest him for smuggling illegal contraband. And issue an international arrest warrant for good measure.

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  • [–] 75 points 1 year ago (42 children)

    3d printed firearms are generally without serial numbers and are thus ‘ghost guns’, which are illegal

    This is not correct. Under federal law, building them for yourself is legal. However, selling them without a serial number is illegal. Manufacturing them without having a license is even more illegal.

    The law in the various states may be more restrictive.

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    However, selling them without a serial number is illegal.

    That's not correct either . Federally it is legal to sell a self built firearm with no serial number as long as you did not originally build it with the intention of selling.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Intention

    So if I make 100 of them and then lick each one of them, and then decide they don’t taste good… Selling them is OK right?

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  • [–] [S] 16 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    As stupid as that sounds, something a little less stupid may, may hold up as a defense in court, depending on where you are, and if you have a couple million dollars to blow on legal fees and/or can get some kind of gun rights advocacy oriented legal firm type thing to work for you.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I have to say it though; there are many easier ways of making money.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I would ask your lawyer before investing in the infrastructure.

    Many of the US' gun laws come down to "intent". Almost like they were written from the start to be selectively enforced.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    From the country that brought you 'dumb and dumber', what did we expect.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (15 children)

    US gun laws are incredible. Short Barreled Rifles are illegal. So they just make them with "pistol braces" instead, and sell them as "pistols." AR-15 with a 10.5" barrel? Pistol.

    Under US law, this is a perfectly legal pistol

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

    Yep, and then if you put a 'not a pistol brace but an actual buttstock' on one of those things without registering it as an SBR... probably you are now a felon, maybe?

    ???

    What is it for a rifle, 16 inch min barrel, 26 inch from toe to tip min length?

    You would think this would spur bullpup adoption / creation around those exact specs... and I guess the PSA Wolverine, Kel Tech RDB and Springfield Hellion are that, though ... the general gun community seems quite hesitant toward and skeptical of anything that doesn't match their already learned standard AR 15 muscle memory.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Don't bullpups have softer recoil?

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

    That... depends.

    Generally, puppies have less recoil simply as function of being a bit heavier, literally having more mass, but this can vary a lot depending on what you are comparing to, and the exact bullpup's internal mechanics.

    This is assuming we are comparing a bullpuppy and standard layout weapon shooting the same caliber, of course, from similar barrel lengths.

    However, another large factor maybe isn't quite recoil per se, but the overall balance point, center of mass of the weapon.

    A lot of guntubers I have seen give bullpups a decent chance say that they are so well balanced, that you can reasonably accurately operate them single handedly, which is fairly important in a combat scenario where maybe you get shot in an arm or shoulder.

    They also say that it is easier to get the weapon aimed at a target, and that follow up shots are also easier to aim precisely and get off more rapidly, because of the balance of the weapon, and that it is less fatiguing to hold a bullpuppy in a shouldered, ready to aim and fire position, and you can do this longer without your arms tiring.

    As a video game modifier and fps enjoyer, I find it funny that that last part is almost never modelled or simulated by games. Sure, sniper oriented games will have a hold breath mechanic, but almost no games simulate that... just holding a weapon upright, shouldered, sighted in... this is tiring.

    Like, grab a 7 pound semi gun shaped object and hold it as if you are just 'iron sighted in', in a game... I'll bet your arms start getting weak and wobbly in a number of minutes, now try that with double or triple the weight to approimate an older /heavier rifle or MG of some kind, and you'll see how silly the notion of just running around with like an M60, and using it as an assault rifle is, unless you are a fucking beefcake.

    There are also studies that show that is is significantly easier to train an untrained shooter to be a decently accurate marksman with a bullpup than it is to do the same with a standard layout weapon.

    But flip side of that are things like uh, field repairs can be more difficult and time consuming to repair, and widely reported heavier and/or chunkier, less smooth trigger pulls.

    ==For the record, I've shot a number of different weapons and calibers irl, but never an actual bullpup, so my 'bullpup knowledge' is second hand or theoretical==

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Personally I've only handled a bullpup. It was created as a replacement for the old M16 the army used to use. Didn't have much training with it, after a session of virtual training, we were sent to the live firing range to shoot. Managed to get a couple of shots under marksmen. As a video game enjoyer getting to shoot, and throwing live nades, was probably the only fun part about basic training.

    So yes I think it's a pretty good weapon for even novices to shoot accurately. Idk about fatigue tho since we were made to carry that thing around all the time and just got used to the weight as my own.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    I more mean fatigue specifically in your arms, that makes it more difficult to aim accurately the longer you have the weapon shouldered, different from the kind of general fatigue based basically on the weight of your overall kit / loadout.

    But either way, thank you for the first hand account!

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    I've definitely played games where using your sights gets wobbly after a few seconds.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Such as?

    Genuienly, maybe I've missed a tac shooter or milsim and could get a new recommendation to check out, but I am mostly dogging on ... the kinds of shooter games that have very realistic graphics stylings, but have rather arcady, unrealistic actual game mechanics.

    I am not saying no games do this, but I am saying that such games tend to be less popular, more niche, their own subgenre.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    That's the problem, I can't remember :(

    A quick Google says maybe Arma 3, 7 Days to Die, and Escape from Tarkov. But I haven't played any of those, I think it's biased towards newer games.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Hah, ok so...

    I have never played 7 days to die.

    I have played waaaaay too much Arma 3, and from what I remember, to actually get shouldering a weapon to be its own distinct fatigue / wobbly arm mechanic, as if it was its own sort of mini stamina meter... you have to use ACE or some set of massive realism overhaul style mods.

    Like, iirc, vanilla Arma 3 will make your aim shitty after you just sprinted a kilometer, but ... the act of shouldering your weapon alone does not cause its own kind of fatigue.

    I have played a bit of EFT, but given that it is full of try hards and hackers, and is also basically constantly broken in some way, I haven't played much in a while, but I do not remember if it did or did not have this mechanic... but I am leaning toward no, at least a few years back, it also did not have a fatigue mechsnic specific to shouldering/aiming a weapon.

    Maybe it does now?

    ???

    But like.. COD and Battlefield, much more popular, definitely do not do this.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The only other one I can think of is America's Army, maybe 3.0 or later. I know the 2.x versions didn't do aim fatigue. But I think they shut that game down years ago.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    You know, thats the only one that I also remember as actually having that feature.

    But yeah, defunct now.

    On the flipside of that... I think that America's Army may actually have been the first multiplayer fps to have ragdoll physics.

    Not 100% sure about that, but like... 90% sure?

    Either way thanks for the reminiscing lol.

    Might as well also mention Squad, though I have not played in a while, don't know if they have a shouldered/sighted in arm fatigue mechanic.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Short version:

    Ok, the actual legal status of this is quite complicated, I will ammend that section with more qualifiers.

    Long version:

    I'll give you that at the Federal area, right now, this is not illegal, to make and possess your own unregistered, unserialized firearm... but if you go by the proportion of people that live in states or cities that have just outright made possession of a ghost gun a crime in and of itself...

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/ghost-gun-legality-by-state

    Yeah thats uh... at least ~126 million US residents where unregistered ghost guns are specifically some kind of illegal at the State level, and thats likely an undercount given that there are likely a lot of larger cities / counties that have their own restrictions, but are within States that don't have them at that level...

    So yeah, it is probably explicitly illegal by local/state law for about half the US by population to self mfg and/or possess a 3d printed gun with no serials / registration

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, I live in one of those states. But even here, it's legal to make with no serial number, you just have to register the creation.

    Or at least that's what the law was. I know it changed a few years ago, I haven't bothered keeping up since it doesn't affect me.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Genuinely didn’t know New Zealand is a federal system.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's not, they just don't realise not everywhere is the US.

    NZ doesn't have states.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago

    I... do realize that NZ is not the US, and was describing how this both is a crime in NZ, and is also probably a crime in the US.

    Why exemplify the US?

    ... Because that is where Kash Patel is from, it is the country of which he is the leader of domestic federal law enforcement.

    In US law, the difference between Federal and State law plays a large part in determining whether or not this is a crime... roughly speaking, half of the US population lives in an area where possession of an unserialized/unregistered 3d printed ghost gun is illegal.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I think they are responding to the OP's comment:

    and would also potentially be somewhere between a misdemeanor and a felony depending on where you are in the US, as 3d printed firearms are generally without serial numbers and are thus 'ghost guns', which are often illegal if unregistered, if not outright banned, though this differs from state to state and city to city.

    Which has nothing to do with NZ.

    Edit: that last bit sounded catty; not my intention.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago

    Because he's a fucking moron.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Pistols are tightly restricted weapons under New Zealand law and possessing one requires an additional permit beyond a regular gun license.

    Restricting pistols (i.e. the type of firearm most useful for crime and least useful for hunting or militia defense) more than long guns makes a ton of sense, and it's a shame the US doesn't do it that way too.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    The US does have more restrictions on handguns than long guns in the same way. Youll notice in NZ you cant have a gun in general without a license, which obviously doesnt exist in the US. That said, federal law restricts ownership of handguns more than on long guns. 18 year olds can buy long guns and ammo for them, but cannot buy handguns nor handgun ammo. One has to be 21 or older to buy a handgun. Although legally an 18 year old can own a handgun if they are given it as a gift. But they still cant buy ammo for it themselves

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    ... in Wellington to open the FBI’s first standalone office in New Zealand.

    A what now? Five Eyes not enough? Confused. Recalling rumours of CCP allegedly installing their own law enforcement agents locally.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    It's the four eyes now, we kicked the United States out unofficially. Seriously, we haven't been sharing information with the United States since before Ukraine did that big drone attack.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    ...and so the arrested him on the spot. Right?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    yo losers your loser laws are not for winners like me.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    The director of the FBI gives gifts to foreign officials... Which are 3D printed? No money for real gifts? xD

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    Doesn't the FBI look into issues within USA borders? And doesn't the CIA look into issues outside these borders? I'm confused as to why an FBI office needs to be in Wellington, especially since NZ is a sovereign country. Unless somehow the NZ government is somehow now a state of the US.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 1 year ago* (7 children)

    Uhm... yes. Yeah.

    I am also kind of confused by this.

    The FBI has like... sub offices, attachés to consulates/embassies... but uh... thats for coordinating with local law enforcement and I guess handling US expats.

    Yeah I don't know what the fuck Patel is doing here, unless he is kind of just publically admitting that all those other FBI sub offices and attachés just routinely handle Five Eyes / Nine Eyes / However many fucking Eyes type shit.

    Which is, I mean, yeah, duh, but also, you're not supposed to just say that outloud, Patel.

    You're supposed to be investigating the globalist deep state panopticon world controllers, not fucking building a new branch office for them...

    Oh my god his brain must be the size of a walnut, he isn't even good at what he is trying to be good at, holy shit.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The FBI is who you call when you want to investigate (and prosecute) international gangs/drug cartels (which is why he was there in the first place)

    The CIA is who you call when you want a country's leader shot with a shard of frozen pufferfish poison.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I mean, the CIA has frequently, with documentation, illegally operated on US soil... often by facilitating international gangs and drug cartels...

    But yes, the ice gun with puffer fish poison is also a thing too lol.

    Anyway uh, the article says:

    News of Patel’s visit caused ripples in New Zealand at the time because the opening of the new FBI office in Wellington wasn’t divulged to news outlets or the public until it had already happened. An FBI statement in July said the move aligned New Zealand with FBI missions in other Five Eyes intelligence-sharing nations, which also include the United States, Australia, Canada and the United Kingdom.

    The office would provide a local mission for FBI staff who have operated with oversight from Canberra, Australia, since 2017, the statement said.

    Where are you getting that Patel was there for intl. drug gang investigation?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Where are you getting that Patel was there for intl. drug gang investigation

    https://www.euronews.com/2025/08/01/fbi-opens-first-office-in-new-zealand-sparking-backlash-in-china

    New Zealand ministers who met Patel, the highest-ranking Trump administration official to visit New Zealand, quietly dismissed his claims.

    A government statement on Thursday emphasised joint efforts against crimes such as online child exploitation and drug smuggling, with no mention of China.

    "When we were talking, we never raised that issue," Foreign Minister Winston said Thursday.

    Patel said what he said because he is a fucking moron. If Patel lied, he is a moron for creating diplomatic problems for an ally. if Patel didn't lie, he just brought a whole lot of unnecessary attention to a spy base in NZ.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Part of the reason for being of the five eyes countries is getting around our laws forbidding intelligence agencies from Spying on their own citizens. They have their ally do it and then share it with them.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    This is a total dark pattern. The objective is to vilify 3D printing, and have the governments regulate sales of printing equipements, etc.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    I appreciate your cynicism, but I think you're vastly overestimating Kash Money's capacity for subterfuge.

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  • [–] [S] 12 points 1 year ago*

    Kash Patel attempting to portray 'innocuous, innocent':

    Why do you think I'm a cop, haha! No, I'm down with the chill bro, hip with the bip!

    .

    ..

    ...

    wherestheadreochromefarmiknowyourehidingitinsideofyourpizzadungeonyoubastard

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    That one of several places where a bunch of techbroligarchs are buying up land and building bunkers? 🤔

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I swear to fuck they're using some kind of unhinged sentence generator to make all the headlines these days

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Send that Worm-tongue back to from where he came, good people of New Zealand.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Better yet, into the fires of Mt. Doom.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Really? Even law enforcement agencies can't have one of these for study or something? Do they jisy destroy contraband that could have been used as evidence becsuse it's illegal to possess? 🤨

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    FBI Director Kash Patel gave the country’s police and spy bosses gifts of inoperable pistols

    US FBI Director Kash Patel visits New Zealand, immediately provides local officials with 3d printed, potentially operable firearms...

    Why do you change the narrative of the article you linked?

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  • [–] [S] 7 points 1 year ago*
    1. I tried to demark a clear difference between the quoted text of the article, and my own editorializing, not in a quote block.

    2. If you read the actual article, it does actually describe that the reason why these 3d printed weapons were destroyed by the NZ police was that they were assessed as 'potentially operable firearms'.

    From the article:

    Inoperable weapons are treated as though they’re operable in New Zealand if modifications could make them workable again. The pistols were judged by gun regulators to be potentially operable and were destroyed, New Zealand’s Police Commissioner Richard Chambers told AP in a statement Tuesday.

    I did not change the narrative, I simply read more of the article than the initial subset I presented in a quote block.

    Please actually read the whole article, not just the preview sampler.

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