Still better than Trump smearing the blood of dead Palestinian civilians all over his face as a cheap replacement for his normal clown makeup
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It's setting the stage. It doesn't do much on it's own but if you recognize them as a state rather than just some people it gives leverage to use more diplomatic tools.
How much difference will it actually make? No idea.
I think this is at least a good step 1, albeit insanely late, but it needs to be followed with sustained action and reparations. If they use this as a marketing tool like the pessimist in me is expecting, then itβs meaningless bullshit. No amount of recognition will wash the blood off of their hands.
Nothing will wash the blood off. The goal is to not get more on to them.
We need sanctions against Israel like yesterday. Their fascist government won't budge until there is real financial pressure.
You're making the positive assumption that the intentions behind thisare to start improving the situation of the Palestinians.
Another just a likely (maybe even more likely, given that all these countries still send weapons to Israel) possibility is that this is the lowest impact thing that they could do that woulf lessen the massive pressure of the Public Opinion in those countries to Stop Israel, thus delaying them having to enact effective measures. In other words, it's a delaying action so that Israel can exterminate more of the Palestinian population and steal more of their land before they actually have to stop.
Doing something pretty much purely performative to delay effective actions to stop Israel is actually a bad thing rather than a good thing.
Some people will complain they're catching flak for doing the right thing. That's why nobody does it etc.
But that's the point. If you're really honest with yourself you take your licks and own up for what you did wrong. People are gonna give you a hard time for it.
The alternative is not doing it.
Why is France written in Comic Sans?
Politicians from those countries are under enormous Public Opinion pressure to "do something" to Stop Israel (for example, in Britain 500 THOUSAND people demonstrated against the Genocide).
So the politicians in power do the most innefective "something" imaginable.
The simplest most surperficial reading of this is: see, they did "something" and even if small "it's a step forward" - you see a lot of posters here doing that reading.
An analysis with even just the tiniest bit of depth yields the possibility that, by choosing to do the least effective thing they could do now, they're diffusing some of that Public Opinion pressure thus delaying the time when the pressure is so big they have to do something that actually hurts Israel, like Sanctions.
If that is the case, then this action is in fact negative rather than merely meaningless or "a small step forward", because it gives Israel more time to exterminate Palestinians and steal more of their land - it means more deaths rather than fewer and a worse future (as more of them get dispossessed) rather than a better one.
Given that all these countries are still sending weapons to Israel, and the UK - which was the initiator of all this - is even running surveillance flights over Gaza and giving the info to Israel, it seems to me that the "it's a delaying action to give room for Israel to take their Final Solution further" explanation is far more likely than the idea that this is being done with a genuine intent of helping Palestinians.
Exactly. As someone from the UK, I find it nothing more than placating to public pressure, but donβt get it twisted we are still selling them weapons and running recon flights for Israel to then murder people.
Can't they just nuke Israel?
That would count as doing something
Unfortunately there are good people there, not just nazis. and I haven't heard of a bomb that discriminates yet
What's with the arm for France? It's clearly labeled in a different way than everything else in the picture.
They figure the job's close enough to done that they can flip to the "right side of history" without affecting the outcome
Clearly, it would be better if they didn't do anything, right?
I get that this seems positive, and it could be, unless the thing they're doing is purely performative, actively distracting from any steps they are still taking to support the genocide, since this is nothing but words. There are many explanations already here about how there is no actual meaningful action here, and that at this juncture, this move is, at best, a net neutral with no meaningful effect on the genocide and, at worst, a net negative, serving only to distract and pacify welling criticism of these governments for their complicity in the continuing genocide while the band plays on.
Better than refusing to recognize Palestine.
You're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Should they take no positive steps?
Imagine someone robs your house, causes untold damage, takes all your valuables and shoots your wife, your child, and your dog.
The robbers voluntarily give back the clock you had on the mantelpiece and $20, claiming they feel bad. You get nothing else but those things. The clock is blood-spattered and cracked. But hey, that $20 counts for something, right?
Would you rather they kept it?
This is frankly baffling. Nobody is saying this should be the only thing to be done. Just that it's a good thing. Is it not a good thing?
If everything from my house was stolen but I was given a tiny useless token back, no, no that isn't better than getting nothing at all.
I'm not saying it's not a good thing, I'm implying how much of a good thing it is.
If it avoids them suffering consequences for the original theft, thus leading them to the same con again and again and again because they always win from it, it's actually a bad thing.
That's an additional caveat that isn't included either with the analogy itself or with the actual recognition of Palestine.
The evaluation of the merits of something doesn't stop at its obvious direct effects.
I mean, if that was the case, me pissing on the punch bowl in a party would be a good thing because it had the immediate, direct and positive effect of me not feeling the need to piss anymore.
I know that its one of most common political swindles in our era to totally and utterly ignore secondary effects and broader impact of a political choice in order to sell us something which all things considered is a bad thing as being a good thing because at the surface it looks positive, but let's not accept them treating most people as having the intellectual capability of 5-year-olds as a good and normal thing which everybody should do and which we should adapt to by not considering more things about a choice than we did at the age of 5.
The problem here is that the discussion was about whether X was a good thing, and then after a bunch of argument against it finally someone pops in with "because it leads to thing Y!"
- That wasn't addressed at all until now.
- It remains an unsupported connection.
- Even if true, thing X is still in itself a good thing.
Recognizing the existence of the state of Palestine is a good thing for everyone except the racist Zionists who want an ethnically pure unified Israel in its place. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.
In a magical special Universe where nothing else at all was happenning, recognizing the existence of the state of Palestine is always a good thing.
In the actual world were are in, with what's going on right now, for some countries (were there is a large public pressure to actually stop Israel and which are still activelly arming Israel) politicians recognizing the existence of the state of Palestine is possibly a bad thing because of how it interacts with other things to de facto yield worse outcomes for Palestinians than if they had not done it.
Interpreting the merits of a choice in a context were there is nothing else whatsoever that interacts with it - call it "laboratory conditions" - is pure Philosophy and akin to claim that "we all live in a perfect simulation but are not aware of it": a fun mental game that has no actual effect in Reality as we perceive it.
It's been clearly photoshopped. There was something else instead of France. You should really respect the original author's work
Americans can shove their opinions after they let Nazis who openly declared they'd flatten Gaza to take power.
link to the original comic? OP clearly, badly, photoshop'd this one and it's clear OP is from the country they replaced with France.
Recognition of a Palestinian state can only be meaningful if it includes a 2 state solution where Palestine and Israel swap their current claims to land and infrastructure.
Would people prefer no recognition?
They would prefer an end to the genocide. Telling someone "they exist" doesn't stop their execution.
So do you mean by that that no preference on whether Palestine is recognized?
They would prefer those recognized that Israel is committing genocide.
Right but between recognizing Palestine or not recognizing Palestine, wouldn't recognizing it be better?
If it stops the genocide, sure. If it distracts everyone from the fact that they're still supporting a nation doing genocide then nah.
What do you feel it does?
It's been one day. So far it's done nothing. I'm gonna give it maybe a month, but if these countries' aid to Israel doesn't stop by then, I'll know it was an empty gesture. I'm not going to consider this a job well done unless they give me reason to. I'm not really in the habit of giving nations the benefit of the doubt.
I was more wondering why people don't consider this better than nothing. Imo this is at worst an empty gesture.
From my first comment:
If it distracts everyone from the fact that they're still supporting a nation doing genocide then nah.
If it's a distraction or an attempt to placate people and get them to stop caring about genocide in Palestine, it's worse than an empty gesture.
I want to believe it's better than nothing, but I won't let myself do that until these countries prove themselves.
The issue is that its the absolute minimum they could do, while still selling them weapons and running recon. I mean, its not that hard. We all know what genocide looks like. We have parades every year for the men and women who fought against those who would and did do genocide on others. But for reason we are sitting and watching it happen again, and again, and being like "nah, it'll be fine.". But 25000 dead kids later, and its not fine. Its pretty fucking far from fine.
And all of this for what? So some utter cunt in Israel and his nazi cronies can hold on to power? We are supposed to be better than that. We might not be perfect, we might have our own issues that need serious work. But propping up a fucking nazi regime, while actively does genocide in full view of the world?
Absolute zero balls on any world leaders today. There all absolute pussies, who cant even say the simple truth we all know. Disgusting.
I think people are glossing over the underlying act of defiance that this recognition also implies. These countries are also saying 'we are starting to break the lockstep with the US' and that is just as significant.
Better than Denmark waiting for: All the hostages returned, Hamas completely out of power, and all weapons gone from Palestinians. I.e. for the genocide to be completed.
"It's the first step!" they'll say, without considering the terms and conditions that incl. neutering resistance and in spite of having 80+ years to react.
The only reaction was, currently is and will continue to be by supplying the Euroanglo-Zionazi entity with arriving settlers from their own countries, weapons, impunity from basically any crime, particularly (but obviously not exclusively) freedom for sex offenders from their own countries to roam around. The West and Westerners accepting this shit are not a serious bunch, and never have been. The fact of the matter is, recognition fundamentally means jack shit while European settlers, their offshoots and compradors exist on Palestinian land.
also lmao at the "Fr*nce" Comic Sans font.
I see a signature but I can't read what it says.
The author doesn't look too good at drawing hands.
And the weird pattern of the shade on the sleeves.
Inconsistency of lighting direction.
If you want more consistent lighting and readable signature you would love AI generated cartoons.
I don't know if you were being satire or not, and I'm only replying you in case you drew it, the hand of "UK" and the one behind it look very much like AI-generated to me. Especially the one behind it, I don't think any sane human, with any level of drawing skill, would think that's what a hand looks like. It looks like the palm is stretched out to be twice the normal size, then one or two fingers (if you call the bottom, fat piece of meat, a finger) attached to it. The "UK" hand also has its index, middle, and ring fingers merged.
If you really drew this, and it's the way you draw stuff and be proud of this art style, cheers. If you know this is AI-generated and still try to belittle real human art with this, shame on you.

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