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[–] 302 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (49 children)

Literally all of these except number 23 and 31 are left wing protests.

Let that sink in 32/34 that’s over 94% of the biggest protests in the US were left wing.

We are the majority. Stop believing in the Reagenesque “silent majority” BS.

The majority of people, dont want oligarchs and conservative bigotry.

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    We are the majority.

    🌍🧑‍🚀🔫🧑‍🚀 Always have been. That's why conservatives constantly try to make it harder to vote - the more people vote, the more left wing politicians win. Because the majority of people agree with left wing ideals.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    If blue fucking showed up at the boxes more often. (Even just 25% of the people registered as blue) nearly all government seats would flip and change would actually happen for the better. Instead left is actually center and right is facist.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Not necessarily true. People with left wing beliefs often vote for right wing candidates because the only information they have is their tiktok feeds and fox news playing at home.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    No, it is necessarily true, according to the data lol. The higher the voter turnout, the more left wing candidates win. I don't doubt that what you say is true at some level, but it doesn't happen enough to affect the trend of higher voter turnout = more left wing wins.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    This has changed. Look at the propensity switch. Low propensity voters back trump by higher margins than high propensity voters since 2020.

    Hence why Democrats dominate low turnout special elections these days

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    100%. Republicans have been blatantly against the will of the people, and can only maintain power through gerrymandering and straight up rigging elections. We are the majority by a long shot. The last election was likely rigged, and the heritage foundation, Trump, and Putin are working on the business plot 2. We have to do everything possible to stop it.

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  • [–] 54 points 1 year ago (36 children)

    Then why is the government so completely dominated by the right if most politically active people are on what Americans call the left?

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  • [–] 90 points 1 year ago

    Two words, voter disenfranchisement

    They remove the right to vote from our poor, our people of color, our citizens who have made mistakes but paid their debts to society, they remove polling places, making people wait hours and hours standing in lines to vote, giving them water is illegal, they purge voter roles right before elections…. And so so many more things. So many Americans don’t vote because they can’t because our right wing government has put so many roadblocks in the way.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago

    Because while a lot of Americans support a lot of left wing positions, there are no major left wing parties, and a very small number of politicians who run for national or statewide office who actually take action to further left wing policies. There's Bernie Sanders, who isn't a member of a large party. AOC, and a few others qualify, but being a small proportion of those running, they're a small proportion of those elected, and have relatively little actual influence.

    Ideas neither major party supports are basically impossible to see happen.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Others have commented valid points but I also wanted to bring up propaganda;

    A lot of people are unwilling or even unable (i.e. there is only one tv in the house and you don’t get to control the remote most of the time) to get their news from sources that aren’t constantly telling them that Democrats are out to get them and 2SLGBTQIA+ are the enemy and that if they just vote for (wealthy conservative) then all their problems will be solved overnight. Couple that with an education system that has failed to give people the critical thinking skills to ask what trans folk have to do with the economy and you get the 2024 election.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The fact that there are so many valid reasons makes me extremely unhopeful.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    To make you more hopeful, they have to constantly fight to keep these systems of oppression in place. We win if/when this stops. All we have to do is keep fighting them. Make them work to oppress us, and it'll crumble.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    So the electoral college and the apportionment act will go away, too?

    And Americans won’t be a bunch of fucking idiots with the attention span of a goldfish?

    And we’ll get proportional representation when they crumble?

    Because most of the issues pointed out are structural and have nothing to do with Trump

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    As others pointed out, there's major structural issues. There's also issues with apathy and people buying into the anti-electoralism/accelerationism con with religious ferver.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's not hard to be anti-electoral when elections don't seem to ever fucking work

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You're not wrong but, that's really the trap that many of us on the Left hand fallen for. It takes a long time to build things and make positive changes in the face of resistance from moneyed interests. Leftists refusing to participate in every election, including primaries, is a good part of how we got here in the first place. Non-voters are the largest bloc and, with surveys consistently showing Left-of-Center policies to be popular with the populace overall, it's safe to assume that the Overton window could be dragged to a better place if they bothered to participate and participate consistently in a calculated manner.

    It is absolutely infuriating, indeed, to see all efforts being for nought, though. In less than a year, almost a century of progress has been undone and that would not have been possible if people had been voting stategically. At this point, I'm certain that things will not get appreciably better in my lifetime.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (1 child)

    And if things won’t get better, why bother?

    I’ve been voting as much as possible and doing the other things for a quarter century and we’ve always gotten further from what I’m hoping for.

    I wasted all that time and money and stress and have nothing to show for it.

    Politics is dumb and people are terrible. I want to leave the planet.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    You've got extremely valid feelings. Mine are quite similar. I do find myself asking "what's the fucking point?" far more often than I'd like.

    Rather like the classic "what's the meaning of life?", I don't think that anyone can answer that for anyone else. For me, it's a love of my fellow human beings and belief that, based upon historical evidence, authoritarianism's grip on society always crumbles. It might take a World War, or it may take centuries of insurgency, but it is inevitable. In order for that to happen, people need to experience kindness and empathy. And people need to be willing to be builders, rather than just violent fighters (every society founded in violence and bloodshed has been vulnerable to authoritarians coopting the movement). So, I keep pushing because it might help others when I'm gone. Hell, maybe it will help lead to the cultural and psychological changes necessary to approach the anarchic society of my ideals (I don't think I'll ever directly have that much influence or desire it but every small bit helps).

    And there's also spite. Authoritarians of all flavors are fundamentally cruel douchebags and the current ones are exceptionally stupid to boot (and revel in their anti-intellectualism). Continued resistance and standing up for people and showing them kindness really gets under their skin and I'm a big fan of that.

    Politics is dumb and people are terrible. I want to leave the planet.

    Yup. Me too buddy. Me too.

    I might suggest, if you're able, looking about for local (non-political) nonprofit orgs to see if there are any that really align with what you think is important. Helping others in a tangible manner can really help to stave off apathy.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    Money, Propaganda, Tribalism, an undemocratic voting system...

    Further, the uneveness of Power is gigantic: billionaires have way much power than common people, who are only powerful if together in large numbers and that's incredibly hard to make happen in a structured way with everybody aligned in the same way compared with what a single billionaire can do if they feel like spending $100 million, and the entire system is set up against people organising in such a way - notice how the biggest demonstration ever in the US, the George Floyd protests, achieved pretty much nothing at all, and the police in the US is still a force of Injustice rather than Justice.

    The vast majority of people are either played like fiddles or made to feel impotent and hence just turn of from politics and just live day to day.

    The US is not a Democracy.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    My take is that there are a lot of Left people who won't vote for anyone except a candidate they support 100%. Hilary Clinton should have destroyed Trump. Those people ignore the simple truth that any time any GOP gets elected the whole country moves to the right.

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  • [+] -3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (17 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    There are two sides. The Right and everyone else. The Right wins because they stay on topic and vote. Until the rest of us fall in line like they do, they'll keep on winning. Show me where I'm wrong.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (11 children)

    There is an evil witch that lives underground in the Moon and who is mind-controlling non-Rightwing votes in the US so that they don't vote. Show me were I'm wrong.

    The easiest thing in the World is to come up with a wild-ass theory without backing it with any evidence and then demanding others disprove it - I do believe that's even a 4chan special.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Donald Trump won the election in 2016 over Hilary Clinton. How much more evidence do you need that people should have done more to defeat Donald and the GOP?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

    That's as much "evidence" for your original "two sides" theory as it is for my "witch in the Moon" theory.

    Also you've moved the goalposts to a self-fullfilling and generic to the point of uselessness statement "people should have done more to defeat Donald and the GOP".

    That's like saying that "all drivers in car crashes should have done more not to crash their cars".

    Well, true, but also about as worthless as "insights" go as "the sky is blue".

    Also by blaming people you're implying that "the system works and is fair" hence the fault is entirelly of people who have full agency and control. I'm afraid that things like the partisan support in the US for Genocide or the extreme level of police violence show that "people" don't really have full agency or even much control - in fact I could spend the whole day listing how most people don't really have much in the way of control of how the US is managed, though granted those wo do have most of the control are people (unless one subscribes to the theory that the ultra-rich are lizard-men).

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Let's turn it around.

    What's your plan? How do you propose to get Trump out? Be very specific.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Trump is a symptom, not the disease.

    By worring so much about the puppet instead of the puppet masters, you're playing into the hands of the handful of people who control the politics of the US and hence the US.

    Go after the real power of the land: the ultra-wealthy.

    A General Strike would be a good start.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    lol! You demand specifics and plans, and then throw out two words. "General strike."

    Details, please. Who is the leader? What is the date? What are your demands? How are you going to handle invalids and homebound folks who need food and meds delivered? Schools open or close?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    By exactly using the MAGA the technique of, after ranting about blaming everybody else but yourself about all maner of problems, "asking" for others to provide solutions only to criticize them when given them, you've just proved what I suspected, so thanks for that.

    Whatever is the way to solve the US problems, it's the very opposite of that "criticized everything and everybody" shit that you, EXACTLY LIKE THE FAR-RIGHT POPULISTS are doing - that shit is literaly "how to divide people and make them believe there is no option other than compliance" out of the Authoritarian Playbook

    Being a fucking rock, literally, does more towards solving the situation in the US than what you are doing.

    Whether because you're a sock-puppet or because you're the ultimate useful idiot, you are part of the problem, not of the solution.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    And you're doing... what, exactly?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago*

    I'm still trying to get a response to my original point that

    "There are two sides. The Right and everyone else. The Right wins because they stay on topic and vote. Until the rest of us fall in line like they do, they’ll keep on winning."

    does not logically follow from

    "Donald Trump won the election in 2016 over Hilary Clinton"

    and hence the latter does not prove the former.

    The whole ploy of the other post in, when I pointed that out, demanding that I do the impossible and provide a "specific" and "detailed" plan to "get Trump out" (as if I'm some kind of omniscient divinity that can produce a specific and detailed plan for something as complex as that out of the top of my mind), followed by using my inability to do the impossible as evidence that I must be wrong about my earlier point, is just a common argumentation ploy to distract away from the point I made rather than address it, and specifically a ploy that the MAGAs constantly use.

    Of course I don't have a "specific" and "detailed" plan to "get Trump out", and neither has the poster who demanded that I provided one in the full expectation that I couldn't - if it was that easy that even an internet rando could come up with a "specific and detailed plan" for it, it would've already happened.

    If you read the thread back you will notice that I made a good faith attempt at providing at least some ideas, whilst the other poster has not put forward a single positive solutions oriented idea, only criticism, starting by criticizing everybody and later moving to criticizing my inability to do the impossible.

    "Always criticism never solutions" is exactly the political strategy of populists. People who want to try and solve things, even if they think it's going to be hard as shit, don't spend their time in "criticize everybody" mode.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    By exactly using the MAGA the technique of, after ranting about blaming everybody else but yourself about all maner of problems, “asking” for others to provide solutions only to criticize them when given them, you’ve just proved what I suspected, so thanks for that.

    You realize you're literally describing exactly what you did. You demanded details then couldn't come up with anything but a pipe dream.

    And if I'm doing what MAGA did, what is the problem? Patton was the general the Germans feared the most, because he fought exactly the way they did.

    And I love the last line. If I am the problem, what is the solution? Again, give me a lot of details.

    Things like who is going to organize this general strike?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You're lying about what I wrote

    Quote the exact words were I "blamed everybody" or even "asked for a solution".

    Once again you're using a ploy straight out of the Fascist Manual of Argumentation: "When accused of something, accuse the other person of the same, lying if need be."

    From the Fascist Manual of Argumentation you so far have:

    • "Made broad claims about how everybody else is responsible for societal problems without providing any evidence at all of those claims. Demand that other do the work of disproving it when you yourself didn't do the work of trying to prove it"
    • "When asked to back that theory with actual evidence, state a fact that is not logically linked to the theory you put forward, and hence cannot logically prove it".
    • "When pointed out that there is no logical link between that event and your theory, counter-attack by demanding the impossible those pointing it out (in this case a "specific and detailed plan" for the problems of America as if that was easy) and when they naturally cannot deliver the impossible, use that to go down some "I win" rant whilst continuing to avoid the original point they made".
    • "When they point out the nature of the argumentation ploys you're using to avoid addressing the original points they made, LIE about what they wrote to claimed that it was THEY who actually did it".

    If you were arguing in good faith you would've either walked back on that theory, refined it some more, or tried to actually show there was a logical link between "Donald Trump winning the election in 2016 over Hilary Clinton" and "There are two sides. The Right and everyone else. The Right wins because they stay on topic and vote.".

    You did not. Instead you went for the "Demand the impossible and when the impossible is not delivered claim that it proves the other person is not wrong" ploy, same as the MAGAs do.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

    You're wrong by blaming the fictional non voting left for all your woes. Don't be stupid.

    It's very simple. 36% of people didn't vote on average. What percent of those people are leftists? If you don't have that information, then you're making shit up and demanding other people prove it for you.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    Also, if memory serves, the right wing group the 3 percenters got their name because it only took 3% of the population to initiate change at some historical event.

    Ergo, it doesn’t take that many people to get out and change the nation, but ffs you got to get out

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    It seems like the ' in the word "don't" somehow fell down and landed on the floor right after the word "people" in your last sentence. Might wanna pick it up and place it where it belongs.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 82 points 1 year ago* (15 children)

    1 George Floyd protests 500,000[5] 15,000,000–26,000,000 2020

    2 Earth Day 20,000,000[6] 1970

    3 No Kings protests 5,000,000 2025

    4 Hands Across America (poverty) 5,000,000 1986

    5 2017 Women's March 3,300,000–4,600,000

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Did any of these have any lasting impact?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (11 children)
  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (10 children)
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Can you provide examples? From what I gather, 1 cops are still killing people, 2 we're still speeding towards climate catastrophe, 3 Trump is still in power, 4 Poverty and wealth disparity is getting worse, 5 Women in many walks of life are still second class citizens.

    Unless the lasting impact you mean is one step forwards three steps backwards.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Do you think that the needle has moved in a positive direction since these protests? Even if it feels like only a few millimetres?

    Starting from the bottom of this list: 5. There's more women in the workforce than ever before https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-006-x/2022001/article/00009-eng.htm 4. We've seen a drop in poverty since 2017 (but it's climbing back up!) https://www160.statcan.gc.ca/prosperity-prosperite/poverty-pauvrete-eng.htm 3. As a direct response to Trump, Canada elected a Centre-Left Prime Minister in Marl Carney's Liberals when the election was decidedly going to be a Rightwing landslide with the Poilievre's Conservatives. 2. Green, renewable energy has never been more popular.

    1. There have been significant reforms since the George Floyd protests. Some cops have seen prison time, or lost their jobs entirely.

    That's not to say our job is done and everything is a utopia now - we still have a lot of work to do. However, we do need to acknowledge when things have moved in a good direction or we'll be overwhelmed by the bad and lose hope.

    You've gotta see some of the good through all the shitty headlines that want to make you click and feel bad.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Your first source is about women working in Canada and your second is about poverty in Canada.

    Unless I missed something, Canada still is a sovereign nation despite what Trump wants.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Great observation.

    You asked for examples and sources - I gave examples and 2 sources. Maybe it's drastically different where you live?

    My challenge to you is - what are you doing to change the narrative where you live?

    Anyone can sit from the sideline and comment that nothing has changed since these protests took place - it's a lot harder to get out there and make the change happen. Maybe you're already making those changes already, in which case - keep going!

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm sorry, but every significant change in the world started with violence.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Intense violent changes are more suited for writing stories about than gradual non-violent changes. I'm not saying gradual non-violent changes is what US needs right now, but your statement is false and I think you should stop instigating violence in this thread.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    The United States was created by the Revolutionary War.

    We live in a country that only exists because of violence. We celebrate and honor this violence every year on July 4 (and on Memorial Day and Veterans Day)

    Clearly we as a nation deeply believe in the transformative power of violence. It's literally what it means to be an American.

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  • [–] 75 points 1 year ago* (9 children)

    I was about to say the list was incomplete as several million attended the Iraq war protests, but it turns out that was global and only a few hundred k Americans bothered to protest the invasion of Iraq based on manufactured propaganda.

    The post 9/11 bloodthirsty hysteria, "you're either with us or against us" dissonance, religious nationalism, and ignorant patriotism is what made me believe the US would become an authoritarian dictatorship in my lifetime. Great job teenage me. I hate it.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    A lot of people forget the shear bloodlust in the USA after 9/11 that lasted for years.

    When people compare the Vietnam and Iraq Wars, a lot of people forget there was a large chunk of the country who were rabidly pro Iraq War while there wasn't an equivalent base for the Vietnam War.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    It felt like everyone was like you were either 1000% on board or you were casually on board cause you weren’t “into politics” but trying to find likeminded people who opposed it felt impossible to me. I was 16 when 9/11 happened and shortly after was when I stoped standing for the anthem or saluting the flag in the morning and I was the only kid in my highschool of 1,800 kids to do that and wow I got SO MUCH hate for it

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    This is online discourse in general with Americans. Nuance is impossible, it's all "you're either with us or against us", for example when discussing China. Doesn't even have to be something political, just any charged argument at a point in time.

    Must be a coincidence that Lemmy was much more relaxed and welcoming when there were fewer Americans here in the beginning, you could even read news about European countries, now all we get is American politics spam.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago

    I was 16 when 9/11 happened and I was a pretty tuned in kid who spoke up about the issues I had with it, how horrible the patriot act was, all sorts of things and I can absolutely attest the response was always extremely hostile and cutting, filled with personal attacks about how moronic I was, now naive and of course because I’m female I’m inherently too stupid to hold a conversation about this so just shout me down so I will shut my stupid girl mouth and sit down. I’ve never changed my mind, why would I? And you know what, I still get attacked in exactly the same ways but at least the “you’re a terrorist for not supporting the Iraq war” has died down

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    That was the first overt demonstration that American news outlets were captured by jingoist propaganda. But back then pointing out that media coverage differed from literal experienced reality got you labeled as a terrorist kook.

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    [–] 35 points 1 year ago

    We clearly have the numbers against traitorous conservatives.

    Would be really cool if we could use those numbers before allowing them to destroy our society.

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  • [–] 31 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Good... now repeat it but as a General Strike

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    A general strike would be devastating. But we ain't there yet.

    Not that I don't love the idea. It requires a robust support network. Start building a small local community that can be self sufficient. Grow food. Make tools. Sell things to neighboring communities.

    The owners will still expect rent during a general strike. We have the numbers, they have the funds to we wait us out. They'll do everything they can to make it hurt us more than them.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    A 1-week strike ahead of the mid-terms would be enough to make the GOP turn on Trump.

    But that's over a year out.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    All I'm saying is build a support network before calling for a general strike.

    Most people can't afford to strike even if they wanted to.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    A year is a nice long runway for that.

    It sucks, but we aren't getting rid of the fascists over the weekend. They're in this for the long haul, and we need to be strategic about when and how we proceed. A general strike is a HUGE offensive in the fight, and it needs to be planned well. If we just mass buy shit before and after it doesn't do anything.

    Targeted boycotts are similar. They need to be strategic in their timing. Refusing to shop on Amazon for a week doesn't do anything if we just go back to purchasing from them a week later. But what we can do is time it so it hits right before a fiscal quarter. That way it impacts the stock price and doesn't fully bounce back until the following quarterly report.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Cool. I just hope your leaders take the hint. Maybe now that they're getting directly threatened they'll show their true colours. Either they stand up for themselves as they see their colleagues start to get attacked (at events or in their own homes), or they cower and come to heel. (Sadly, I have little faith most politicians in most countries these days will do much if it's not their own hides at risk.)

    Incidentally, something weird is going on with that list. I'm not sure how the ordering works but much more important, it says only "500,000" for the protests over George Floyd even though one of the references says 15-26 million over the entire course of that movement.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm afraid this may not be enough. One who is so deep in their delusions isn't so easily brought back to reality, if they ever can be.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This isn't the first large nationwide protest of his second term and it won't be the last. For instance, the Hands Off ones in April were number 6 on that list. They're getting larger and there is already planning for the next nationwide ones. Or more broadly, here's the cumulative number of protests including smaller ones too

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Without huge media buy in, a billion people is just a number they throw out. I don’t see any change from the number one protest on the list. I don’t think protests are working, even as i still go to them.

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