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This is those who support palestine vs the world. (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 year ago by to c/palestine@lemmy.ml
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[–] 37 points 1 year ago*

Israel's tank doesn't stop. Just ask Rachel Corrie

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    [–] 56 points 1 year ago (38 children)

    Laughably false image. The zionist entity tank would NOT stop. The American tank would NOT stop. The British tank would NOT stop. The German tank would NOT stop.

    And nearly all of them would say the protestor was a terrorist and justify it would say they were antisemitic and deserved it, would slander their character in death and use it to justify a crackdown on speech because they want to prevent more people acting like that.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    rantThat's what I hate about so many western people who even in beginning to question the propaganda of today repeat yesterday's thoughtlessly. How they never stopping to consider how in the west they murder people all the time openly. They kneel on people's necks, they choke them out, they do no-knocks and shoot people dead. Leadership of police accountability organizations like BLM wind up dying in statistically suspicious numbers in traffic accidents and similar. They assassinate MLK and Fred Hampton, they bomb residential buildings, they shoot unarmed college students. Yet a picture of a tank refusing to run over a guy is not only proof of how evil and callous a certain other country was in 1989 but a reason to continue repeating the image. An image motif pushed deliberately by the spy agencies and military psyops and dishonest genocide abetting press of the countries in the image so that we don't say adopt an image of American atrocities which don't end with the guy walking off but with them a splatter on the pavement or financially ruined and in jail. So that even in criticizing these countries, you uphold their narratives in the motif of the image you chose which is to slander another nation and helpfully deflect some people into thinking things like "at least we're not that other country yet, bad as we are, they're badder". Even in criticizing them you do their dirty work by using their tools, their narrative, their framing.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (32 children)

    The zionist entity tank would NOT stop. The American tank would NOT stop. The British tank would NOT stop. The German tank would NOT stop.

    The problem is that Westerners were and are to assume that Tank Man got squished, despite the photographic & video evidence to the contrary. It was an exemplary work of propaganda, and I’m pretty sure most people ate that onion whole.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (31 children)

    Not that minute, but he could easily have been one of the several thousand who died that were squshed and washed down the drains.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    It must be so easy being an anti-communist; you can just make up what ever bullshit you like and expect people to believe you. Even when what you're saying is straight up impossible because human biology doesn't work that way

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Photos were linked elsewhere. I'm making no political statements (if you like, I'll state that the west has enabled massacres far worse than Tiananmen Square). I'm just ensuring history isn't whitewashed.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    You’re ensuring that the US military-intelligece-propaganda-industrial complex’s false narrative is maintained. You’re doing the global hegemon’s work for free, unaware that you’d been propagandized by them like everyone else. Including almost all of us. Most of us used to be just as hoodwinked as anyone.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    You can see the square in the background of the video, there's just rows of bicycles.

    The whole "all the protesters were herded into the square, machine gunned, then homoginized via tank and washed down a drain" is a fabrication.

    What actually happened, you can look up the gorey pictures and everything: Protestor groups 1-2 blocks away from the square lynch multiple cops, burning the bodies. Cops proceeded to drive around shooting civilians 1-2 blocks away from the square. Multiple police trucks end up burned in the surrounding streets, its unclear whether they were killing people mostly at random or entirely at random.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    Your version is suspicious lacking student deaths. It is inconsistent with these NSFL photos.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (15 children)

    Student deaths are included in the protestor deaths.

    The brief summery is entirely consistent with those images, every image of casualties we can see are in the surrounding streets and not the square, there is no images of tanks and streets covered in gore, and the number of corpses we see are in the dozens, not tens of thousands, which is more consistent with the claims of 1-300 dead.

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  • [+] -7 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    You didn’t talk about protester or student deaths. You only focused on the poor poor soldiers.

    Dont be pedantic. The protests focal point was the square. Protesters being murdered in nearly streets don't need a separately named massacre.

    there is no images of tanks and streets covered in gore

    There are dead bodies mangled with crushed bicycles. And the photos are of streets covered in gore.

    the number of corpses we see are in the dozens

    So the only proof you will only accept is photo of every death? Fuck off you Sealion.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    The point was the story we're all told about tanks squishing thousands of protesters because those commies just hate freedom is entirely orthogonal to actual events. And no, describing police driving around murdering people either mostly at random or entirely at random is not trying to make you feel sorry for the police. I get the sense that you aren't talking to me, but this weird idea of what a tankie is that only exists in your head.

    There are dead bodies mangled with crushed bicycles

    The images aren't easy to look at, but theres bodies that were shot by the cops while riding their bicycles, but no piles of gore mixed with crushed bicycle.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    we're all told about tanks squishing thousands of protesters [...] entirely orthogonal to actual events

    Thousands dead, some squished by tanks. Actually happened.

    describing police driving around murdering people

    Reread what you wrote. It sounds like the police are being attacked.

    no piles of gore mixed with crushed bicycle.

    There are dead bodies under crushed bicycles. Sorry there wasn't enough blood for you.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    It sounds like the police are being attacked

    They were attacked, there's pictures of their corpses. Other police responded with indiscriminate murder. I am not making any kind of value judgements, acab and all, just describing events as reported by witnesses and corroborated by the images

    There are dead bodies under crushed bicycles. Sorry there wasn’t enough blood for you.

    Point to the image that shows protesters crushed under bicycles you say exists.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Those are not consistent with a tank running people over until they're paste. They are consistent with cops indiscriminately firing on a group of bicyclists.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    So the only proof you will only accept is photo of every death?

    You haven't offered any proof for thousands being dead though.

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Chinese Red Cross, the Swiss Ambassador and former student protest leader Feng Congde all say around 2500.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I love unsourced assertions.

    Also, what kind of fucking source is the Swiss Ambassador or Feng Congde? How would they have any idea?

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  • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Buddy, do you think that we’re somehow unaware of the fucking Wikipedia page? We’ve investigated it to death. And posting Wikipedia is not evidence; it’s not a source.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    He could much more easily not have. And (1) several thousand people didn’t die, 200–300 did, and (2) there is zero evidence that anyone at all got squished by a tank.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    300 is only the low end that has been officially admitted to. Other sources average to around 2500.

    Fuck you for making me prove it.

    Squshed

    By

    Tank

    NSFL

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

    Yeah, “other sources“ are the CIA, the CIA cut-out NED, Radio Free Asia, etc.

    Have you not figured out yet that the only reason there was any violence in the first place is that the United States organized, trained, and funded the people who brought the violence? That Dr. Gene “color revolution” Sharp and his team were in Beijing when this all happened? This was yet another attempt at a “color revolution” by the US, in a long line of regime change shenanigans by the world’s premier imperialist, terrorist state. And on top of that, they’ve convinced us to blame China for it all.

    Where do you think the Salafi Jihadi terrorists in Xinjiang suddenly appeared from? From the same US regime change playbook as ever. Where do you think the Salafi jihadi terrorists-cum-“moderate rebels” that just took over Syria came from? Or Osama bin Laden?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The CIA has a dark history of dirty tricks, but this is the first time I've heard them being blamed for the Tiananmen Square massacre.

    But I do recognise your concern. The US ambassador quoted deaths in the 10,000s. Certainly not credible.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    this is the first time I’ve heard them being blamed for the Tiananmen Square massacre.

    Well you’re not going to hear it in corporate journalism, in US- & capitalist-funded NGOs, or in corporate social media. The books on it aren’t going to show up on the NYT bestseller list or at airport bookstores or Barnes & Noble. They’re written by scholars/historians/researchers who know they probably won’t break even for the effort, if they manage to get published at all. Nor will you hear it from “neutral point of view” Wikipedia. I already covered this stuff upthread. You really have to go out of your way, which few have the time or energy for, and anyway almost no one would have a reason to question what they take to be bipartisan “common knowledge” in the first place.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It's one thing not to trust what the US says, it's quite another to blame it (without backing evidence) for one of China's most shameful episodes.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    What’s the point of posting a vague strawman[1][2][3] when no one is even reading this thread anymore?

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    What we are actually hoping for is bloodshed, for the moment when the government has no choice but to brazenly butcher the people.

    This is like blaming a rape victim because of their clothing choice. There is always a choice not to brazenly butcher people. A point very relevant to this community topic.

    Yes, the CIA would have taken every advantage available to them but, unless the people giving the orders were actually CIA double agents, the blame for the massacre lies solely with the Chinese administration.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Would stop, but only to avoid creating a martyr.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    not at all. first of all the IOF kill people for sport. literally maiming children deliberately as a game, for fun. if they worried about martyrs they would at least hesitate to kill aid workers from other countries. they don't care because they're not people. they're demons.

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    • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    What are we, a bunch of Asians?

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Those tanks refer to regimes and governments, not the people, there are good people and bad people everywhere in every country.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    This "blame the government not the people" schtick has got to go..

    This thinking is just an attempt to resolve a cognitive dissonance or something. Basically, it ends up looking like you coyly address the issue without trying to anger anyone, which ends up watering down the whole point...

    Fuck it, just say "Fuck America" because Fuck America, "Fuck the EU" because fuck the EU and I don't only mean the countries within the union and "Fuck the Commonwealth" because fuck the Commonwealth. No punch pullsies. And no hiding behind a palatable Tank Man for Westoids to reinforce their biases, even in good meaning.

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    • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Not enough Arab autocracies in line there. Egypt and Saudi get much less hate about their role in the genocide than they deserve.

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    • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    I get the intent here, but Tank Man as a symbol of defiance against tyranny is a product of US ant-China/anti-communist propaganda. Previously:

    It may surprise you to learn that tank man was standing in the way of tanks leaving the square and going back to base. After climbing on to the tank and talking with the crew, he eventually left the area with some other civilians.
    Video of exactly that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq8zFLIftGk

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago

    … Tank Man as a symbol of defiance against tyranny is a product of US ant-China/anti-communist propaganda.

    I hate ant-China! You can never get the bowls clean enough and the plates barely hold anything.

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  • [+] -6 points 1 year ago (8 children)
    [removed by mod]
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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    The PRC is in the primary stage of socialism. The large firms and key industries are state owned, while there is diverse ownership of medium and small firms such as cooperative, private, and joint-stock. It has not reached communism:

    Cheng Enfu's 3 stages of socialism

    As for the June 4th incident, it was a tragedy. Legitimate greivances were hijacked by CIA-backed protest leaders that admitted to wanting to spark a massacre, then when the PRC showed restraint for a month some of the protestors started lynching unarmed PLA officers and burning them alive in vehicles by firebombing them. This sparked the state response, which was an immense tragedy, but at the same time this was an entirely avoidable outcome that only really happened because the west took advantage of a protest and changed it from being a Maoist protest into a liberal one begging for colonization from the US.

    To this day, despite records stating that around 1-300 people died, the west still claims 10,000 were killed based on a falsified British cable.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (6 children)

    Right… the video and photos are fakes and Columbia Journalism Review is a conspiracy rag 🙄

    You Are Not Immune To Propaganda

    Previously on c/asklemmy: What are some good places to start getting acquainted with American politics in as unbiased a manner as possible?

    The first step is to understand the media, which Media Bias/Fact Check and the Ad Fontes Media* are never going to teach you. The only people who are taught it are those who get degrees in marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism; and even then only some of them.

    The new post-Trump/“post-truth” media literacy curricula won’t teach it to you either, because it was paid for and crafted by the US military-industrial complex: New Media Literacy Standards Aim to Combat ‘Truth Decay’.

    This week, the RAND Corporation released a new set of media literacy standards designed to support schools in this task.

    The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”

    None of it is a secret, though, and it can be learned.

    *I’ve criticized MBFC & Ad Fontes before:

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  • [+] -2 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I focus on Five Eyes propaganda because I live there and speak English. It’s the propaganda that I’ve lived under my entire life, and it’s the propaganda that’s targeted specifically at me, my peers, and my community.

    China is on the other side of the world, and I can’t read or speak Chinese. I’m hardly affected by China’s media, and I can only significantly affect my own community, not ones that are oceans away.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Your "West never shows" images are missing some dead students (NSFL obviously)

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    • [–] -5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I don't like this.

    It portrays a false consensus for Israel. The opposite is true.

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    • [+] -11 points 1 year ago (4 children)
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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    This is getting ridiculous. Is there nothing you’re not wrong about? Has it occurred to you that what a state publicly says and what that state’s stance on the matter might actually be is not always the same?

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