The title kinda buries the lede there. I thought it was ridiculous to fine a platform just because a streamer happened to die on camera, but no, they were streaming months long abuse and torture of this guy at the hands of his co-streamers.
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Is it just my ADHD, or did the article completely fail to mention why a streamer was forced by two other streamers to stay awake and ingest poison? Did they hold his family for ransom or something? I need context.
If I understood properly the guy was a kinda homeless person that the two fuckers "hosted" in their house in exchange for participating (being tortured) in their streams. He was disabled or mentally challenged too, and there was another victim of theirs that was handicapped in the flat too.
The alarm has been raised for at least 8 months but neither the police nor the national agencies nor the minister contacted either did or decided to do anything. Every time the police came the victims were saying that all was good and they gave their consent to anything, but on stream they were often asking to call the cops, an ambulance or trying to leave and the two fuckers barred them the exit and threatened to beat them or throw them back to the streets. So they were basically held hostage.
The whole thing is a disgrace. It was the most viewed French language stream on Kick for months, two vulnerable people being tortured on stream and nobody did anything.
From what I understood the two fuckers will probably get a 25 to 30 years of jail sentence, and some of the people who donated money to them to encourage them in the torture also risk prison time. Which I fucking hope they get.
Someone took upon himself to save all the worst clips and try to raise the alarm, they have more than 300 hours of stream capture with evidence of torture and other wrongdoings.
I really hope they go after peoppe who donated too. Disgusting peoppr all around.
I hardly even know what kick is, i assumed it's just twitch for more degenerate people ald less rules. But why does kick has to pay suck a insane fee? They brodcasted it and didn't do anything when people raised awareness, sure. But the main takeaway is always that people do and watch sick garbage if they have the opportunity. Hell they even pay for it and encourage it.
They brodcasted it and didn’t do anything when people raised awareness, sure.
And they made money on it.
When they were alerted to it, they did nothing. They simply allowed it to continue, and profited from it.
Worse than that, Kick even gave this channel money and featured it. They are complicit.
So all those "red room" legends were true. It's just that instead of being in the dark web, it was broadcast in public for the world to see. How dystopian.
There is even a sequence where the two fuckers try to force him to say that "if he dies on stream, it won't be their fault" but the fault of his "shitty health situation". He flat out refused.
They perfectly knew they were in the process of killing him.
Kinda homeless? The victim is the largest french gaming streamer and definitely not homeless. There's indications of mental health problems but it's only visible on camera. There are no documents verifying it unfortunately (though it seems evident). The two killers are people he's known and hung out with for years.
Edit: The apartment was rented specifically for this stream.
It's sort of an extension of lolcow culture. This is a vid I recommend to watch to understand it.
Neither it, nor several other articles linked by it have clarified this. Frustrating times.
His streams were about self deprecation, humiliation and abuse. He let those two guys abuse him to the limit and apparently they went over the limit.
It was with consent but they still be charged with murder and probably get convicted too.
This went on for weeks, months, and nobody interfered. They just gave a platform for the abuse.
What changed between the 'months of torture' and Naruto and Safine being arrested, and the '10 days ' leading up to his death?
It sounds sick that the French government would decide a man is being tortured yet they're not obligated to intervene... while at the same time they fine a company for not stepping in.
If this man was negligently killed, authorities and kick are to blame, but it's the authorities that should've been the failsafe, not the company. I guess it makes sense that French politicians are Very Mad™ and Seriously Considering Bigger Punishments™.
Exactly. Law enforcement investigated and found no wrongdoing. They’re the ones who dropped the ball here. Was there something else Kick was legally obligated to do? I agree that there was a moral fuck up here resulting in somebody dying. But torture between competent consenting adults is legal. Just like we’re saying BDSM is okay
Also someone else mentioned the TV show Jackass and I just wanna know how some are drawing the line here. So are some of the dangerous stunts on Jackass ok or not? Why?
It's not the French government issuing the fine, it's the Australian, where the company is hosted. They probably should have hosted themselves in the US and hid behind the first amendment
I'm not exactly a US constitutional lawyer, but I'm willing to bet that snuff films aren't protected by the First Amendment.
Believe it or not, prolonged physical and mental torture is not speech, a religion, a function of the press, an assembly, or a petition. You could probably get some of the physical violence covered by the Second Amendment though, if you have a gun and just do a little of the South Park "he's coming right for us" thing.
This is straight out of Black Mirror S7E1 and the idea behind the “Dum Dummies” site. 😭
They deserve to pay every dime of it. They exploited this man's torture with full knowledge of what they were doing to him on stream after multiple complaints
I feel completely out of the loop when stuff like this happens.
I went looking around and found an article that expanded a lot on this topic, https://maxread.substack.com/p/who-killed-jean-pormanove
Story of my life. Major story drops, article provides little to no context, and everyone in the comments already seems to know what's going on.
This happens constantly in my life, both online and offline; why does it seem like I'm always being left out? I've missed out on so many parties and events because of this issue.
Should get double finned for torturing Jean + Raja almost beating someone to death on stream.
Mr Beast offering to pay for Raja’s opponent’s medical bills; he’s frankly lucky what happened to Jean hasn’t happened on his watch tbh. But he’d probably get off
that was terrible to watch, and i heard all the MMA people defending raja.
The autority should be held accountable too since they opened an investigation but did not force the streamers to temporarly stop streaming till the investigation is finished
I don't think that's a real issue. depending on how long this investigation goes, that would either be meaningless loss of revenue for these content creators, or an easy way to destroy the career of any other content creators too if a disgruntled viewer reports them falsely.
The investigation started in December 2024, the abusers was taken into custody then released unconditionally so i don't see how the authorities are not responsible too
ok, that's a different reason now, I can agree with that. maybe it shouldn't be legally possible to consent to abuse like that. but a law forbidding that could have far reaching consequences, like if a medical treatment is very painful but it cannot be avoided because painkillers have alimited effect
$49 M fine? So, basically, legal for a fee?
I googled and apparently kick has been doing 180 million revenue yearly, so this is refreshingly high in terms of a fine.
So they can do this 3.5 more times before it starts costing them money?!
Yes. I saw a video on getting around Flock's AI cameras and he mentions the numerous million dollar lawsuits that regularly result from misuse of their data and the glitches that cause people to have guns pointed at their heads by police.
It is a cost of doing business. Saying 'I'll sue you!' To them is as threatening as charging someone a little extra for that order of coffee they made.
I mean, Kick probably could be suspending people who stream for an unhealthily long time, maybe suspend his abusive friends, but they didn't force him to take any actions resulting in his death imo.
What exactly is the crime?
From libé article:
Raphaël Graven, 46, known under the pseudonym Jean Pormanove, died near Nice during a live broadcast on August 18 on the Australian video platform Kick after more than 12 days of live streaming showing him and another man being assaulted and humiliated by two people. Followed by nearly 200,000 viewers, the “Jeanpormanove” channel had for months shown Raphaël Graven being insulted, beaten, having his hair pulled, threatened, and even being shot at without protection with paintball projectiles. According to the channel’s promoters, the content was staged.
Deputy Minister for Digital Affairs Clara Chappaz on Tuesday announced her intention to sue the Kick platform for “breach.” She made the announcement after a meeting convened at Bercy with officials from several ministries (Justice, Interior, Economy) and two independent authorities, accusing Kick of violating the 2004 Digital Trust law.
Good thing Sauber is becoming Audi next season. That’s a lot of money for a title sponsor to lose (and it sounds like they deserve to lose it).
Can someone point out the part where this wasn't voluntary or the guy was held captive & not free to leave or end the voluntary abuse at any time?
It looks like idiots kink-playing too hard with extra fines to some platform while the morons try to escape accountability.
Viral compilation threads have shown Pormanove being hit, strangled, and fired at with paintball guns while streaming with Naruto and Safine, whose lawyers claim they hold “no responsibility.”
The company is still at fault for not banning such behavior on their service. Freedom of expression does not mean freedom to be violent and promote violence.
Kink playing is ultimately the responsibility of the top, if this was that.
It's not, because they disregarded that person's state of well-being in a continued way.
This comment might provide some insights: https://lemmy.zip/comment/21080783
Also, IMO, voluntary or not, this goes over the edge, especially on the streaming part. If someone genuinely enjoys this, they can do it in private, and exactly as they like.
When money and popularity get involved, this prompts more extreme behavior, turning a willing masochist into a victim, and a game into a trap.
Besides, authorities could have at least checked up on him.
This comment might provide some insights: https://lemmy.zip/comment/21080783
Sources for that information should be easy to cite, yet I notice none.
they can do it in private
How do we tell real apart from fake performances? Should fake performances be private only when they already aren't? Seems difficult to police without chilling freedoms.
Economic coercion needs to be controlled somehow. I guess the question is how to police actual abuse while permitting legal performances like the Jackass franchise of reality, slapstick comedy.
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