Microsoft is being sued by a man who feels cheated by the current plans to sunset Windows 10. He makes some good points, but I doubt he'll win.

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[–] 80 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Hey, Microsoft said 10 was the last version of Windows...

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  • [–] 42 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    It's the last version of Windows I'll ever install, so the statement was accurate but incomplete.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The last version I'll ever install was 7, so I guess they're back to lying!

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  • [–] 66 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm old enough to remember when MS said Windows 10 would be the last Windows and they'd just update it over time.

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  • [–] 20 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Kinda glad that wasn't the case because those of us who've been using Windows 10 all this time would just end up with what Windows 11 is but masquerading as Win 10.

    I'm more comfortable with being pushed back into the Linux pool and relearning how to swim those waters.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Having gone from 10 to 11 - it's pretty much windows 10, at least to an average user like myself ... I'm tech savvy enough for Linux but I prefer windows for gaming.

    Have to say so far I'm pretty happy with windows 11 but I'm just a random guy who uses it to play video games and that's about it on that PC so if you're doing anything crazy under the hood I'm sure there's some noticeable differences.

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  • [–] 225 points 1 year ago* (18 children)

    He'd probably have an easier time with the lawsuit if instead of appealing to upgrade logic, he just went with, I don't know...

    THE TIME MICROSOFT PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED WINDOWS 10 WOULD BE THE LAST NUMBERED VERSION AND THAT THEY'D NEVER NEED TO UPGRADE OS VERSION AGAIN.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32658340

    Pepperidge Farm remembers, Microsoft scum.

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Nixon wasn’t speaking authoritatively there, I believe both he and M$ clarified that. And the “correlating” announcement was more “we will be continuously updating windows 10” unlike the assumed by many people to mean “perpetually” which is just silly.

    You’re telling me you expected windows 10 to remain forever the last Windows version? Maybe if they decided to rename the OS moving forward.

    I suppose you could take the stance of it just becoming versioned in the same way Linux distros are, but then you just get left being on an old version of Windows 10.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    No, I didn't expect that, which is why it was stupid to say it in the first place. You can't turn this around and put it on the customer to have to read between the lines what the business is trying to actually say. How about, the multi-billion dollar company that has entire buildings full of lawyers doesn't make claims that it can't back up?

    I'm not saying it's right to expect that the Windows operating system was never going to have to have a paid upgrade again, but it was also stupid and wrong to make the claim that it wouldn't. That's on them. Nobody held a gun to their head and told them to lie to their customers and then later claim they didn't mean it. And furthermore, why give them the benefit of the doubt? You think if you were in trouble because of something stupid you said, Microsoft is going to come to your aid? Is it being fair? To a company that wouldn't care if they accidentally bankrupted you with a forced update?

    And sure, they can "clarify"all they want that he didn't mean the words that he said precisely and accurately in unambiguous English. It doesn't change the fact that he's not some random employee. He is an executive. He knows, and everyone else should know as well, that he speaks as a representative of the company. Otherwise what's to keep them from lying through their teeth about whatever features they want? "It prints free money! It'll cure all your diseases! No, no.. he didn't mean that."

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago*

    Again, an employee speaking off the cuff in an unofficial way isn’t “the company making claims.”

    If this was the janitorial staff, would you have taken them at their word? An intern who waddled on stage? Granted Nixon had a little more authority within the company than either of those individuals, but he was by no means in a position that anyone paying attention would take his word on this particular statement.

    The issue here is that the media took this “random” employees word as gospel and without getting clarification ran with dozens of “ThiS Is tHe lASt vErSIoN oF wINdOwS!” clickbait articles. All fact checking thrown out the window, no proper follow up. They just spun an entire story out of his off the cuff statement.

    Edit: It should be clarified: Nixon wasn’t an executive. He was a software developer. I don’t believe he was even a “senior software developer” at the time.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    “perpetually” which is just silly.

    That's basically how Linux works, especially if you use a rolling release distro like Arch, openSUSE Tumbleweed, or Fedora Silverblue.

    Honestly, if Windows followed a similar policy, I think people would be less interested in alternatives. Perhaps charge for access to new features, drop support for older hardware, etc, but let people keep using it if they like it.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    No, they never did. Yes, it was all over the news, but they literally didn't. Go be angry at media for making stuff up. You don't have to believe me, go ahead and find that announcement yourself. You won't because there was never such an announcement.

    Notice how even the article you linked doesn't give a full quote? It just quotes someone saying "last version" without any context of the sentence it was used in? I will give you the full quote where that comes form. Someone asked a Microsoft developer what they are currently working on, and the answer was:

    ”Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10.”

    It is obvious from context "last version" meant "latest version" here. And that misreading of a quote, conveniently not included in most articles, is the only source for all these news. No announcement. No journalist actually asking Microsoft about it. Just a fleeting comment by one Microsoft employee that obviously meant something else, in an answer about something else, but why let that get in the way of a good story.

    And this was an answer to an audience question in a "Tiles, Notifications, and Action Center” presentation by a single Microsoft developer, on a developer conference. The absolute last place to look for a ground-breaking announcement about Microsoft's future.

    The company said it had yet to decide on what to call the operating system beyond Windows 10.

    And the exact same article you linked confirms Microsoft is still deciding on the name for the next Windows? Which would make no sense if there was no next Windows?

    "There will be no Windows 11," warned Steve Kleynhans, a research vice-president at analyst firm Gartner.

    There will be no Windows 11, says some guy who doesn't work at Microsoft.

    And then a bunch of cherry picked quotes about continous updates being a good thing. Yep, continous updates, just like we got in Windows Vista, and that have nothing to do with there not being new Windows versions.

    Modern journalism is useless. Someone made up a thing, everyone else copied it. And not a single media outlet actually asked Microsoft about it. No one. Or maybe they did, but the answer meant there is no news, so let's ignore it.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    "Modern journalism is useless", but when Jerry Nixon said "last", you're telling us he really meant "latest."

    Go on, pull the other one. No really, it's got bells on it.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago*

    Yes, the least a journalist could do, if they really thought that a developer talking about changes to notifications accidentally let slip a huge announcement about something else, would be to confirm it with him, or anyone else at Microsoft. But that would make the story go away.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    It's really not hard to find the original statement from Microsoft, which was made by a Microsoft employee.

    At the 2015 Ignite conference, Microsoft employee Jerry Nixon stated that Windows 10 would be the "last version of Windows", a statement reflecting the company's intent to apply the software as a service business model to Windows, with new versions and updates to be released over an indefinite period.[68][69][70] In 2021, however, Microsoft announced that Windows 10 would be succeeded on compatible hardware by Windows 11—and that Windows 10 support will end on October 14, 2025, marking a departure from what had been dubbed "Windows as a service".[71][72]

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Did you even read my comment? I already addressed what you said, and already included the quote.

    But I really like how in the text you copied, "Windows 10 is the last version of Windows", a factual statement about the newest version of Windows at the time, was editorialized into "Windows 10 will be the last version of Windows", a statement about the future that was never said.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Its funny since when the .iso for Windows 11 first became available, it would state you were installing Windows 10 or even Windows Server edition but after installing, it would be Windows 11

    Window build numbers are still Windows 10.xxxxxx

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  • [–] 65 points 1 year ago

    The assumption that you'll lose a lawsuit against a large corporation probably stops a lot of viable lawsuits from ever happening - good for him for giving it a go.

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  • [–] 89 points 1 year ago (20 children)

    Looking into switching to Linux...

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Do it.

    If you have an old laptop, put Linux on it, get comfortable using it. Then when you are ready, make the full switch on your main computer.

    I have used Linux for a few years mostly on my servers, but that's what I did to get used to the desktop experience. I setup a second SSD to have the option of dual booting if I needed it. That was back in March and I haven't booted into Windows once.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    If not, look around, you can buy off-lease corporate laptops and ultra-small desktops that are just old enough to not support 11 for a song. They lack a GPU for good gaming, but they tend to be extremely well supported on Linux and are not slow. For the price of a Windows license, you can have something to learn on without effecting your main computer.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Yeah I tried. Turns out my fingerprint reader isn't supported on Linux and never will be and my audio sounded like absolute trash. I probably could have have fixed the audio issue but the fingerprint thing turned me off. Went back to Windows 11 which works just fine for me.

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  • [–] 47 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    May you run into a nerd with a Ventoy USB full of beginner-friendly distros in their back pocket to help you along your journey.

    There are at least two of us out there, I’m sure of it.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    I keep a ventoy USB in my backpack at all times.

    Currently I have mint popos endeavour cachy bazzite fedora opensuse. I'm thinking of adding a few more. Maybe add nixOS and Debian to the mix.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    As someone who recently made the switch, DM me if there's anything I can help with. A lot of the Linux Bros on here will be completely unhelpful out of smug superiority. Also, if you have an HP, you will almost certainly have to do a LOT more work (I had to learn to edit GRUB config files pre-startup). It will be much easier if you don't have an HP. Anyway, open offer. Also, do Linux Mint.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    It's much easier to install Linux these days than it is to install Windows. And with KDE Plasma the user experience is really similar. As for the distribution I would suggest OpenSuse as that has very little requirement for terminal commands, they've packaged GUI elements in the whole distro.

    As for Tumbleweed vs regular, that's up to you. I'm happy with Tumbleweed.

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  • I'm happy with Tumbleweed too, but I Max need to point out that the documentation kinda sucks and the community is kind of small. If you're confident in applying documentation from other distros, you'll be fine.

    I generally recommend Linux Mint to new users because the community is large and accustomed to helping new users, and you can use documentation for Ubuntu and Debian generally without issue.

    Check out openSUSE once you figure out what you like and don't like about Linux distros, it's a great end game IMO.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm the same, I've got a perfectly good desktop machine that isn't Win11 compatible, as well as a Windows 11 laptop.

    Most of what I do on the desktop is browser based, and I have the laptop in case I brick the desktop, so nothing to lose by trying.

    Ironically, if I'd been able to upgrade to 11, there's no way I'd bother with any of this.

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  • As someone who recently made the switch, DM me if there's anything I can help with. A lot of the Linux Bros on here will be completely unhelpful out of smug superiority. Also, if you have an HP, you will almost certainly have to do a LOT more work (I had to learn to edit GRUB config files pre-startup). It will be much easier if you don't have an HP. Anyway, open offer. Also, do Linux Mint.

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  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    The end of the article misses one possible way to deal with your computer, migrating to Linux. It's not possible for all the mass of people, but it's still a possibility.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It very much is. If you're willing to invest a few hours of your time to learn something new, you can absolutely switch to Linux.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    I feel like Linux right now is where Windows was in the XP days. for 90% of users it will work out of the box for them. They will be able to check their email, watch YouTube, doom scroll on their choose social media. The challenge is that for the other 10%, the learning curve is a lot steeper than XP was. The learning curve problem is compounded by the massive pile of guide for deprecated sub systems.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    It's been clear for years now that I'll have to fully switch over to Linux eventually once Windows is completely locked down like Macs are. The Steam Deck has been a great stepping stone to getting more comfortable with using it.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago

    Good, fuck ‘em.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Even if he does win, it's still Windows, still under their control. It'd be maliciously and quite supraliminaly enshittified until it's unusable. Just slap on a CachyOS or anything else open source

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  • [–] 51 points 1 year ago (25 children)

    I hope he wins.

    Windows peaked with XP. 7 was alright. 8 was a free fall of a downward slide falloff.

    Appified overly complicated slop and bloat filled garbage ever since.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Win 2k pro was best. Fight me;) I hated the fisher price look of XP.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Nah they peaked at NT4.0! Fight me! I remember using that for my dual core celeron system! Abit BP6 FTW.

    (I agree with you about 2k, but I liked XP and loved the look of Vista so what do I know…)

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)
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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (11 children)

    IDK I liked 7 pretty much as much as I like XP. For me it was 10 that was just alright.

    My brother convinced me to switch to 11 when I built my most recent gaming desktop and I somewhat regret listening to him but I know dual booting is a waste of time for me and I'm not quite ready to make the full jump to Linux because my desktop has a 4070 Super. It'll ahve to wait until my next PC. Fortunately, I don't have the version of 11 with Recall pre-installed at least.

    I use my Steam Deck more than my gaming desktop these days anyway.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Why is the 4070 an issue regarding linux? Nvidia drivers have come a long way since the beginning of the year, currently running modded cyberpunk on my 3070 Ti without issues.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Wayland on Nvidia has a lot of issues was the big one for me. I ended up selling my Nvidia card and bought an AMD card instead.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Nvidia on modern Linux (Wayland) is garbage and I'm buying AMD next time.

    Like seriously, people will try and tell you "oh you can install the proprietary driver easily now and they've come a long way"

    Sure, but it's still garbage. I can't even full screen a video in Firefox without a it crashing and a bunch of apps simply refuse to work without shitty environment variable hacks to drop back to software rendering

    I'm not a noob either, I've been using Linux as my primary OS since 2008

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  • I just tried fullscreen youtube and it worked flawlessly, and i had a lot more luck than you with different apps. we can at least agree that it isn't consistently stable depending on configuration, and i feel pretty lucky that my nobara installation is one of the happy ones.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    @Liberal_Ghost@lemmy.zip

    Performance is still noticeably worse. Based on some cursory research, the 4070 Super gets like ~20% less FPS on Bazzite compared to Windows on a 4070 Super and I tend to play high fidelity shooters on my desktop so frames per second matters.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    Fair point. Do you know if they where using the open source driver for thr graphics card? Or Nvidia's proprietary one? Because I'm on Fedora using the Nvidia driver and I dont notice that much of a fps drop. It is some, maybe 5-10%

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Win 7 for me. It didn't try to fix what wasn't broken.

    Win 11, like so many things today, feels like it's just hostile towards users. They change shit for the sake of it, like where the fuck is My Computer? Why is it so bloody hard to find anything from the start menu, no I don't want to search Bing for a settings menu thats in every other version since I can remember, no I don't want be reminded every 3 days to give you my data for "customization" purposes.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Its a fun fantasy but Microsofts pockets are way too deep to lose to some avarage joe.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Never forget we were told Windows 10 would be the last version. That all updates from then on would be only to Windows 10.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Literally why I paid for a new version instead of... Finding other ways to install it.

    That's on us though for believing scumbag corporations won't just straight up lie to sell stuff I suppose :(

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