All autocrats are my enemy
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Anyone have a high res version of original pic?
Maybe it's just my narrow perception but, it seems to me that most of the class war illustrations are old. I know the class war has been going on forever but, why aren't more modern illustrations as popular?

The old ones have their appeal, but I found a couple new ones. Maybe people prefer the older drawings to newer ones because the newer ones could be AI.
Oh for sure, I'm not a fan of AI. Thanks for sharing those illustrations.
Part of the value in showing the old illustrations is to show that we are a part of a centuries-long struggle against Capitalism, and a thousands of years long struggle against Class society. Plus, the Soviet Union made tons of these, and it's no longer here. There are modern artists, but these draw the reader into a connection with our predecessors.
Ehh these highly nationalist states def aint my friend. Yes all bourgeoisie should be supressed globally.
China is Socialist, so it already suppresses the bourgeoisie. Russia and Iran are nationalist, but this nationalism also puts them at odds with western Imperialism and towards countries like China. Aligning with the Western bourgeoisie against Russia and Iran weakens the chance of them becoming Socialist, as it would likely result in an opening of their markets to foreign plunder and perpetuation of Imperialism. On the other hand, by siding against Western Imperialism, they become more integrated into the Chinese side of the global economy, pushing them towards Socialism.
I wouldn't say Russia and Iran are friends, they certainly aren't Socialist by any stretch, but they can be depended on insofar as they work against the system by which the West collectively loots and plunders the Global South, depressing its development.
Marx never once said that the bourgeoisie cannot exist under Socialism. Marx said that Communism, which is after the transition from Capitalism to Communism (which Lenin and other Marxists post-Marx call "Socialism"), is the means by which to sublimate private property (and therefore eliminate class society once and for all). Here's a line from the Communist Manifesto:
We have seen above, that the first step in the revolution by the working class, is to raise the proletariat to the position of ruling class, to win the battle of democracy.
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degrees, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i. e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total of productive forces as rapidly as possible.
This phase is described by Marx as such in Critique of the Gotha Programme:
Between capitalist and communist society lies the period of the revolutionary transformation of the one into the other.
Marx stated that the job of the Proletarian state is to gradually appropriate Private Property and to fold it into the public sector. Why? Well, here's an example from The German Ideology:
We shall, of course, not take the trouble to enlighten our wise philosophers by explaining to them that the “liberation” of man is not advanced a single step by reducing philosophy, theology, substance and all the trash to “self-consciousness” and by liberating man from the domination of these phrases, which have never held him in thrall. Nor will we explain to them that it is only possible to achieve real liberation in the real world and by employing real means, that slavery cannot be abolished without the steam-engine and the mule and spinning-jenny, serfdom cannot be abolished without improved agriculture, and that, in general, people cannot be liberated as long as they are unable to obtain food and drink, housing and clothing in adequate quality and quantity. “Liberation” is an historical and not a mental act, and it is brought about by historical conditions, the development of industry, commerce, agriculture, the conditions of intercourse...[There is here a gap in the manuscript]
In short, the job of Socialist society is to immediately sieze large and key industries, and gradually appropriate industry and sectors that grow over time. It isn't an instantaneous transformation into Communism, there is a protracted period of sublimation of property relations as the material processes develop and give way to socialist relations.
You are replying to a deleted meme. Yes ive read marx. I think i just disagree with your assessment that china will hit the communism button after western imperialism is somehow dismantled.
You don't create Communism by pressing the "Communism button," though, that's the entire point of Scientific Socialism as created by Marx and Engels. You achieve it through development, under a State controlled by the Proletariat. The PRC's economy is already Socialist, the large firms and key industries are firmly public and the medium firms are heavily controlled, as long as it keeps developing and stays the course it will continue to develop as a Socialist country will.
Holy moly im being sarcastic mate. Yes it is a historical process, but i believe what is happening in china is closer to state capitalism than socialism..i would even say it leans a certain flavor of corpratism ie fascism. The socialism sticker on the front is meaningless to me. You are still upholding the bourgeoisie and capitalist social relations including imperialism ie weatlth extraction abroad meanwhile suppressing labor at home.. I definitely would not call it proletarian rule by any means. Add on to that the strong nationalist fervor, and well ya man i dunno what to tell you. I guess everything is socialism since we are all a part of the historical process towards communism.
The "Socialism Sticker" is having a Socialist economy, where the overwhelming majority of the large firms and key industries are publicly owned and planned, and Capital movement is heavily restricted if not approved by the CPC. They do not "uphold the bourgeoisie" or "Capitalist social relations," they are gradually dismantling them as Marx said they should be, by gradually wresting Capital from them as public ownership becomes economically required for further advancement, all under a Proletarian State. There is no other way to abolish the bourgeoisie than by erasing their economic foundations:
The essential condition for the existence, and for the sway of the bourgeois class, is the formation and augmentation of capital; the condition for capital is wage-labour. Wage-labour rests exclusively on competition between the labourers. The advance of industry, whose involuntary promoter is the bourgeoisie, replaces the isolation of the labourers, due to competition, by their revolutionary combination, due to association. The development of Modern Industry, therefore, cuts from under its feet the very foundation on which the bourgeoisie produces and appropriates products. What the bourgeoisie, therefore, produces, above all, are its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable.
China is still a developing country, it can't just whisk away all elements of commodity production, especially not in the context of a Capitalist-dominated global economy which it needs to interact with in order to supplant, such as by building up the Global South through multilateral infrastructure deals (such as BRI).
And no, China is not Imperialist, and it isn't suppressing labor at home. This is just vague gesturing, hard analysis finds that neither of these assertions hold water. To further jump and call the PRC fascist is ludicrous, and indicates an utter lack of understanding of Socialism and fascism in general, fascism is a bourgeois society exerting its Capitalist strength to crush worker organizations, not a Socialist state that eliminates extreme poverty, combats desertification, pushes for multilateralism and decolonization, and has a majority publicly owned economy.
and yet nobody would want to live there. terrible regimes are the enemey. and they are the most terrible. pretty much makes them the enemy.
Why are all you nationalist liberals posting in this communism com.
I'd absolutely live in China, but I'd probably move back due to family. I definitely see the US Empire and all who enable it to be greater evils, considering the relentless plunder of the Global South propping them up and the brutal genocide in Palestine that is deemed necessary by the US and its vassels.
easy said when you have nothing to say. you could live there if you stop caring about being free or having the freedom to just read what you want. it'd be a sad life.
I have quite a lot I can say, I spend a good amount of time reading up on China and Marxism-Leninism in general. If you have a specific area to talk about, we can! I certainly would feel more free in China than I do in the US, and I'd be fine reading what I want. It certainly wouldn't be a sad life.
bootlicking is not reading.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_censorship_in_China
you are just a liar
I'm not a liar. VPNs are accessible in China, and you can download books that way, it's pretty easy to get through any censorship. I'd be fine reading what I wanted.
no. you wont. you are a liar. just imagine having a book about free hong kong, free tibet, free.... anyway, you get the point, you go to jail for reading.
china is just pathetic. i pitty the brainwashed. ask any hingkong activist. i am sure they call you delusional.
I'm not a liar, I could access books of those types and read them without going to jail, though I likely wouldn't want to read them anyways. Hong Kong is a freed British Colony, and before the PLA liberated Tibet, it was a slave-driven feudalist economy running on torture backed by the West, and is currently autonomous with high approval rates for the CPC.
Further, "Brainwashing" isn't real. I recommend reading Masses, Elites, and Rebels: The Theory of Brainwashing.
Rather than "mind control," people license themselves to believe ideas that coincide with what they percieve to be materially beneficial. Capitalists genuinely believe that Capitalism naturally selects for those most competent, Chinese citizens genuinely believe Socialism in China benefits themselves, and both are genuine beliefs because of real material benefits.
You know, if for one second you entertained ideas that go against your current understanding, you'd develop deeper and multi-sided understanding. Instead, you reflexively complain about communists and conspiracies. Of course environmental factors play a role, but they do not command thought, but reinforce beliefs.
Joshua Wong, famously western-backed politician that was used to sow dissent when the majority of Hong Kongers approve of the status quo? You sure that's who you want to back?
The PRC is not evil, you wholeheartedly believe everything the US State Department wants you to. You should read the linked article.
Shitlibs have been reduced to squawking out off topic, sentence fragment, thought terminating cliches.
Is your point that China, Russia (both Socialist during the USSR and Capitalist during the Russian Federation), and Iran are all generally evils that must be opposed? What's your point, exactly, are you denying class analysis?
The US and EU are also authoritarian and consequently have a history of doing bad shit to people as well, even currently as both are actively supporting the genocide of Palestine in order to protect their Imperialist super-profits. I think your point is very under-developed, you grabbed some talking points out of a bag and rolled them out on the table without giving any of them support, context, or applying them to a further analysis. Taken critically, your point is just "Russia/China/Iran bad because they are Russia/China/Iran," not a systemic critique.
What the world needs is certainly Communism, eventually, but the way to get there is through Socialism, as found in the PRC, Cuba, etc. The regulated Capitalism of the EU runs on Imperialism, just like the US. The EU super-exploits the Global South through unequal exchange, perpetuating the underdevelopment of countries in Africa and South America in order to support vast systems of plunder. The EU is a problem, not a solution, one that needs Socialism and greater industrialization so as to not be reliant on plunder.
I don’t think you know what authoritarianism is
I think we do know what you think it is: “horseshoe theory”; Arendtian “totalitarianism.” https://lemmy.ml/comment/17774014
the idea of paying a scientist of any kind the same as a cashier at a gas station is ridiculous.
This isn’t even a straw man; it’s an allusion to an unstated straw man. No one is suggesting that everyone should be paid the same, and AFAIK no socialist state has ever done it.
I think that's a poor counter to my argument, I do know what authoritarianism is. All states are authoritarian, all are instruments by which the ruling class oppresses the other classes. In the US and EU, those are the Bourgeoisie, specifically the Monopolist Imperialist bourgeoisie. In Russia, the ruling class are the Nationalist bourgeoisie, in the PRC the ruling class is the Proletariat, as it was in the USSR as well. Each ruling class uses the power of the state, the power of authority, to cement itself, and displays greater use of force the more that status is called into question.
The way to move beyond authoritarianism is to move beyond class society. The way to move beyond class society is through Socialism, by which all property can be sublimated into common ownership and direction, to fulfill use rather than need. This is the path to Communism. Countries like the PRC that are already Socialist exert their authority to enforce the interests of the Proletariat, and thus their use of authority is more progressive than the US and EU, who use their authority as Imperialists to keep the system by which the West plunders and brutalizes the world for profit to keep going.
Russia and Iran play the role of self-interested nationalists working against the Imperialists, just as the small business owners, ie petite bourgeoisie, can side with the Proletariat out of their own self-interest in revolution. They are certainly not world leaders of Socialism by any stretch of the imagination, but work with Socialist countries as they have no other option than surrender to Western Imperialism and be decimated like Russia was following the dissolution of the USSR before the Nationalists kicked out the West.
Your last point about equal pay for a scientist and a cashier is a non-sequitor, Marxists are not equalitarians.
Incredible comeback, Marxism has been destroyed.
More non-sequitors, I guess? You didn't "dissent," you just called me stupid. You didn't even have productive criticism attached to your comment, it was a low-effort insult and thus broke the rules. Your other comments are still up.
Communists and Socialists have faced struggles with color revolutions and counterrevolutions, and have met those struggles with force, yes. However, it's worth engaging with what the counter revolutionaries wanted. Well, they succeeded in the 1990s with the dissolution of the USSR, and what happened next was a collapse in life expectancy and 7 million excess deaths. Dissent is allowed in Socialist countries, what isn't allowed is the Bourgeoisie acting freely and inciting violence against the people.
Further, your comment was hardly "dissent," it was you insulting me without engaging with the arguments. It's toothless. It's unfortunate that you don't live up to your username, fascism and anticommunism are twins.
The riots surrounding Tian'anmen Square resulted in hundreds of deaths of protestors and PLA officers alike, it wasn't a rampant slaughter but the suppression of a western-backed color revolution. The student leaders admitted to inciting violence in order to provoke a violent response, hopefully triggering more widespread revolt in their eyes, but fled the scene to other countries like the US before the PLA was sent in.
They did not "break free." 7 million people died, life expectancy plumeted, social safety nets were destroyed, poverty skyrocketed, sex trafficking skyrocketed, and the large majority of people who lived in the Soviet Union prefer it over modern Capitalism.
You didn't have logic. You said they were "freed from oppression," by which I can only assume you mean the freedom to starve and die as wealth inequality skyrocketed and the former Socialist state was plundered. The majority of people who lived in the USSR want it back, and this is well-documented.
Communism is democratic. Liberalism, which you are likely referring to, is tied to fascism. Fascism is liberalism when the conditions of society necessitate the bourgeoisie's use of unrestrained violence to prevent changes to the status quo.
There are several Socialist countries run by Communist parties, generally all of them are democratic. They have different models of democracy from liberalism, ones that are usually far more comprehensive. You should do some more research and try to actually understand the concepts you are arguing about, every time you're proven mistaken you ignore it and find a new talking point. It's better to hold your tongue and read up more than it is to waste your own time talking about that which you don't know nor understand.
Hey EU citizen here. Our governments are absolutely authoritarian and we are very much being oppressed. We strike all the time to try to get the government to give us some crumbs, but not only do they refuse to listen, they also send the police in armoured gear to beat us up.
This is not the model you want in the USA, believe me. Maybe they present it to you in your media as some kind of paradise but that's very far from the truth, they probably say that to lead you away from a real revolution that would be disastrous for your oligarchy.
1989 Tianenmen Square
massacreinsurrection
The equivalent of this would be 1000 US caucasian student communists showing up on Freedom Plaza,
demanding that Confucious Institutes be reopened while building statues of "Chairman Háu!",
and singing how oppressed they are if those institutes are not build for them,
then do a Trump style insurrection and continue to kill when US troops arrive,
which not even the Jan 6 insurrectionists dared to do, because the government,
instead of sending armed soldiers, send in their army choir
to calm everyone down and have them peacefully removed from "the plaza".
Instigators had been shot dead.
And dozens of innocent people died in a state of confusion in the outskirts of the city,
with protesters not believing the insurrection happened
and soldiers demanding confescation of public transport to get to the square
to prevent a potential coup from happening.
Then, when all is said and done, China starts calling the Jan 6 insurrection,
the Freedom Plaza massacre, despite all the action having taking place
at either Capitol Hill or JFK airport.
Soviet gulags
Holdover from their imperial days, increased in use during world war I and II prisoners,
then got dismantled to a few until the last one closed down in 1987.
That's at least 38 years before the US, as the US still has forced slave labor camps all over the nation.
Russian war on Ukraine
Ukraine is an artificial state created by Russia from its own territory and Polish territory.
Kiev being Russia's first capital like Philidelphia was to the US.
A coup happened in Ukraine and Oblasts (states) wanted to secede because they didn't recognize
Poroshenko as their president since they declared themselves as Russian and demanded referendum,
that was violently blocked with lethal gunfire killing voters at the polling stations.
In response the seperatists declared secession and asked Russia for help.
Russia demanded Ukraine to hold a cease fire so a referendum could be held.
And after 8 years of Ukrainian presidents, including Zelensky who platformed on the
promise that he was going to be THE president that would bring cease fire and being
elected on the basis of that promise, after 8 years of only increasing the suppression,
Russia did a small invasion to tell Zelensky that they would really appreciate a cease fire there
and promise that it would never join NATO.
Zelensky agreed, but then Boris Johnson showed up the next day saying that the US and EU
have got all their weapons ready to arm Ukraine with whatever he wanted that the EU has,
so he would fight with all the weapons of all of Europe, excluding Russia and whatever the US
was willing to give, basically turning it into a world war and Zelensky agreed.
So basically a semi-world-war has been started by the US/UK, because they refuse a small portion of a half-Russian nation
to hold a referendum so that they could leave, because they thought a coup was undemocratic and didn't like
an oppressive anti-Russian regime change when they themselves are Russian
and viewed as Russians, not just by themselves.
Iran is quite lacking on human rights too.
Iran has had countless of attempts by the US/UK to recoup the country
after a pro-sovereignty countercoup ended the rule of the Shah.
All "human rights violations" are simply retaliations against deadly attacks by paid protesters,
and CIA-astroturfed bestseller authors.
Meanwhile the US is deploying the military because people protested against police raids that deports legal immigrants out of the country and before that protests against their regime deeply supporting a genocide.
These reactions and types of protests are incomparable.
And you can see how incomparable they are when you just look at the protest chants and media pictures taken.
Hong Kong protests for example came out of nowhere, used the flimsiest excuse to overthrow the government,
with false claims and demands that far exceeded the Jan 6 insurrection claims and demands and just happened
to be hyperorganized with its leaders constantly flying to the US to pick up awards.
Imagine US protest leaders flying to China to pick up human rights awards for protesting...
typo :
Iraniens are not my ennemies Chines are not my ennemies Russians are not my ennemies the ruling class is my enemy
Those state are run by their ruling class (obviously), so their definitely are our ennemies. As well as every other states, specially imperialist one
To be clear, the ruling class in the PRC is the proletariat, it's a Socialist country. Further, Russia and Iran's ruling classes don't have the same Imperialist foothold holding the entire Global South down that Western Countries do. They will need Socialist revolutions, but as Imperialism is the world's greatest contradictions, it's more important to thwart US and Western European hegemony than it is to side with the Empire against bourgeois states that are nationalist in character.
Also even if you believe that the democratically elected leadership of China are a new distinct class, they are empirically not capitalists and empirically not violent on anywhere close to a comparable scale to capitalist leadership. Their politics are that of mutual cooperation and advancement because 1a) they understand imperial extraction is economically inefficient in the long term 1b) have sufficient control over the state and economy to prevent it 2) they need strong allies to protect themselves from imperialist encirclement and imperial powers keep trying to weaken the rest of the world
(I don't agree that the Chinese elected leadership constitute a new class, I'm just saying for the sake of talking to folks who do)
The PRC is proletariat just as western country are democratic. Yep we should fight the imperialism of our own country first; but we shall not ignore what is oppressing our comrades elsewhere. Workers struggle are bloody crushed by hose states. Pretending elsewhere would not help to build social revolution anywhere
It's easy to claim something, but another thing entirely to prove it. The fact of the matter is that the PRC successfully had a Socialist revolution and has been as such since 1949, hence why the overwhelming majority of Marxist organizations recognize them as Socialist. The overwhelming majority of the large firms and key industries are publicly owned and planned, and the overwhelming majority of people support their system and believe it is headed in the right direction.
What would be a major setback is revolution in China. Such a color revolution would result in devastation, a crumbling of Socialism, and new lands to plunder for the US Empire. I suggest you familiarize yourself with Marxism and Marxist orgs before making such a claim. If you are familiar, then please offer something beyond a simple claim, so we can have a meaningful discussion.
You are getting downvoted but are absolutely right. I have nothing agains Russians, I do have something against Putin invading Ukraine, Georgia etc. I have nothing against Chinese people, I do have something against Xi and what he is doing against the Uygurs, or what he did to Hong Kong and might do to Taiwan. Just like I don't have anything against Americans, but I have a lot against Trump.

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