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[–] 74 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

When I was a teen I asked my religious homophobic grandma if animals dont have rational thought but can still be gay, how did they "choose" to be gay? Her response? Gay penguins dont have souls so it doesnt count.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago

    To which I'd have been tempted to reply: "Then how is it that they care for one another if they are without souls? Maybe being so callously judgemental of that which you don't understand makes you the soulless one who doesn't count."

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  • [–] 103 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Turtles are the horniest animals on the planet.

    If you don't have enough girls per male, they will not be able to eat or drink because they are constantly molested by the fuckmachine males.

    If you want to live with turtles, don't mix genders, or get a whole lot of turtles..

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Considering their reputation for lack of speed, the sex must be extremely satisfying so of course they're always wanting more! 🤪

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    These are tortoises, not turtles.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    https://www.britannica.com/story/whats-the-difference-between-a-turtle-and-a-tortoise

    What is a tortoise anyway? Is it just a fancy way to say “turtle”? Well, actually, there’s a meaningful difference between tortoises and other turtles. All tortoises are in fact turtles—that is, they belong to the order Testudines or Chelonia, reptiles having bodies encased in a bony shell—but not all turtles are tortoises. If tortoises are turtles, why not just call all turtlelike creatures “turtle”? Because if the animal you’re referring to is a tortoise, some wise guy is going to correct you every time.

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    It's cute and all but... I really hate that arguement. If it wasn't natural, it wouldn't make it any less moral. We don't need to play by their rhetorical rules. I know that this is just a cute thing, but I see this kind of things all the time and I feel quite strongly about it. So what if I wasn't born this way? So what if it's not natural? Does it somehow make things worse? Or is just an excuse to justify hatred of something that just grosses the 'phobes out?... y'know?

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    To be fair, when arguing with anyone about things not being natural, point out the car they drive, the processed food they cook, the job they work: all very unnatural things that people "choose" to do.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago

    I've been saying this for years. It doesn't matter if you choose to be gay or not. It doesn't matter how many biological sexes there are. People should do what ever the fuck they want with their own bodies and personalities.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Glasses are not natural, pacemakers are not natural, cars are not natural.

    Anyone who uses "not natural" as an argument while not living in a brush hut and cooking over a woodfire is just a hypocrite

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    We're the only species that can make our own fires. So unless you stumble upon a fire that has started because of a lightning strike or something, cooking over a fire is pretty unnatural. Then again we are part of nature, so anything we do is natural 🤷‍♂️

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Of course it is a dumb argument, but it is to refute the even dumber argument that somehow homosexuality isn't natural.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago*

    Homosexual behaviour has been exhibited by every known species. Homophobia has only been documented in one .

    Who's fuckin unnatural now?

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    Everything comes from nature so nothing is unnatural.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Well that would just diminish the value of having both words.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    The words exist across languages because we use them to mean something. If they had neither denotative nor connotative use, your comment itself would not mean anything. That you made the comment seems to me to imply that you know there is a difference.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (4 children)

    Yes, we use them to mean something that is wrong.

    We have the concept of werewolves, doesn't mean they exist.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    This is such a silly line of thinking. To call being gay unnatural is clearly a misuse of the word, but the idea that everything that exists at all is natural is nonsense. For example, hot pink is an unnatural human hair color. Even if you color your hair hot pink, and therefore it exists; that doesn't make it natural. So in the absence of another word used to describe something that wouldn't otherwise exist in nature without human intervention, ... "unnatural" is perfectly suited to this task.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (2 children)

    The silly line of thinking is that because a human does something, it makes it unnatural.

    I understand that it is meant that way. I'm just criticizing it.

    People could be born with hot pink hair and at that point it would be natural?

    Is plastic unnatural because it is made by humans? If there was a bacteria who produces plastic would that make plastic natural?

    It's the underlying misunderstanding that people think humanity is something special.

    Let's be real. People say unnatural and mean wrong or undesirable. And I am arguing against that.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    With that last part I agree. And I’d bet we probably generally agree, but as a matter of perspective our positions look different. I’m not trying to be obtuse here.

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  • Yes, as I see it, we are divided enough so let's not get hung up on the details. It's enough that you try to understand what I am getting at. Thanks for that.

    You seem like a reasonable person so I would say we leave it at that and I wish you a good day :)

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Well that's not true. Hatsune miku is not natural in the slightest.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Is an anthill not natural despite having been made by natural beings?

    Is Hatsune Miku not natural despite having been made by natural beings?

    Hatsune Miku is the anthill of humanity. The peak of our nature.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Hatsune Miku is capable of possessing the Decepticon Soundwave so she is very much not natural.

    Also I would personally consider things created by creatures in the animal kingdom to be unnatural by default. With a further breakdown between naturalistic vs manufactured, with naturalistic being for example an anthill while manufactured would be for example a biface.

    Natural biological processes such as breathing, pissing, and shitting are natural though.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I mean, I'm being facetious, for the record. It is, of course, a deeper and more interesting topic

    Though, what I would end up saying in reality is that the distinction is for the most part meaningless in my opinion. The manufactured does not have to inherently be at odds with the natural.

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  • Manufactured under such circumstances just means that it's been altered in such a way that nature is either unlikely to or unable to. It's not so much as it's at odds so much as they are two distinct processes one is the simple mechanism of the universe doing its thing while the other is a mind inflicting it's will, while life may be a consequence of thermodynamics we can still tell a burrow from aeons past from a simple rock which the wind has blasted through.

    Also this is a matter of philosophy which has the potential of causing first fights amongst anthropologists. Which is what makes it fun. Also there is probably no good answer since it is as much derived from an individuals world view than anything else.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    "Being gay is gay" is the tautology this whole thing will eventually evolve to as all their arguments get refuted one by one.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    I wouldn't bet on it. If they cared about their arguments getting refuted via logic and/or facts, then they'd already have dropped their bullshit.

    No, they're emotionally still children taught by bullies how to "win" by refusing to back down no matter what, and that "might makes right" so they all back each other up. It unfortunately all too often works for them by simply wearing out their opponents - who can't fathom not giving AF about the facts, and/or just don't know how to defeat such obstinance.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    This is the sort of argument that might stick though "oh yea well world's oldest tortoise is a 150 gay monogomous male tortoise named Jonathan". The problem starts when people begin their discussions like "well scientific studies show that...". You should treat them like they have the attention span of a toddler.

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  • If that's the required MO, then I don't see the point in even bothering. Reality is virtually always going to be more complicated than those arrogantly making such basic erroneous assertions are going to be willing to deal with. That attitude of "I'm right no matter what" is driven by deep insecurities that have long since been forgotten as their real motivations after they buried them in overcompensating mountains of false bravado. You can ELI5 all you want, but if they're not as open to learning new things as someone who actually is a 5yo, then odds are extremely high that you'll just be wasting your time.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

    Where exactly is the line between "natural" and "unnatural" and why should Humans abide by what is Natural anyway?

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Those who complain such nonsense are almost always those using religion in an attempt to control and/or manipulate others because "God" is in theory "perfect" and therefore unquestionable. They conveniently forget "God" not only isn't the one making the complaint, but is also the one who supposedly created what they're complaining about to begin with.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (5 children)

    They always have an answer though. Always.

    I don’t understand how people can be so arrogant. Religious people come in two flavors though; the leaders who tell everyone what god wants (lol), and the people who follow those leaders but aren’t arrogant enough to think that their feelies must be the will of god.

    “‘at queer made me uncomfortable, and my discomfort is god talking to me.”

    “Amen brother dipshit!”

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    They may have an answer, but the "logic" behind them is frequently circular/self-referential in nature, and therefore invalid. But it sounds good enough to them so they'll refuse to even think about - let alone acknowledge - the large gaps/leaps in their so-called "reasoning" that so often completely destroy the foundations of their claims.

    You're right: they almost always have "an answer" & as long as they're prepared with something to say, then they'll never care about how valid it is. They've got an answer, and that makes 'em right (wingnuts), goddammit!!!

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Nah, 90% of all christian people are supremely arrogant.

    They believe they are special, and better than every one else by divine mandate.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago

    Yeah but to him it seemed like about a year and a half.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    Aww such a cute couple 🥰💖

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago
    [+] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Swans are also apparently Hella gay so.....

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  • [+] -57 points 1 year ago* (14 children)

    Maybe that's why they're almost extinct. By 1840, they had almost completely died out as a species.

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  • [–] 70 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Or because they were hunted to near extinction by Europeans for soup and shell based accessories..?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seychelles_giant_tortoise

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  • [–] 37 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    There have been numerous documented occurrences of homosexuality across a wide variety of species. If they were to become extinct, it'd be unlikely to be due to a relatively small percentage of them being gay.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Apart from anything else, does that stop them from breeding?

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Humpback whales are “least concern” and the first images we have of them fucking is male on male.

    There are lots of ways that having homosexual behavior in animals can help a species survive. Gay couples can raise orphans, sex can serve as a form of social bonding or even dominance to maintain social structures… It’s an uncritical high school student’s understanding of evolution and biology to assume that all adaptive behavior directly leads to reproduction.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I smell an aquatic sequel: Humpback Trench

    In stead of Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger when he was alive, it'll star an actual humpback whale and the remains of no longer alive Heath Ledger

    Heath Ledger will still be amongst a whopping 64 posthumous Oscar nominees, but the only one to be nominated for posthumous accomplishments.

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