top 80 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 496 points 1 year ago* (30 children)

The pathological need to find something to use LLMs for is so bizzare.

It’s like the opposite of classic ML, relatively tiny special purpose models trained for something critical, out of desperation, because it just can’t be done well conventionally.

But this:

AI-enhanced tab groups. Powered by a local AI model, these groups identify related tabs and suggest names for them. There is even a "Suggest more tabs for group" button that users can click to get recommendations.

Take out the word AI.

Enhanced tab groups. Powered by a local algorithm, these groups identify related tabs and suggest names for them. There is even a "Suggest more tabs for group" button that users can click to get recommendations.

If this feature took, say, a gigabyte of RAM and a bunch of CPU, it would be laughed out. But somehow it ships because it has the word AI in it? That makes no sense.

I am a massive local LLM advocate. I like “generative” ML, within reason and ethics. But this is just stupid.

  • source
  • hideshow 30 child comments
  • [–] 247 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    When I'm browsing around with multiple tabs open, the last thing I want is something to start moving them around and messing my flow up. This is a solution looking for a problem.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 44 points 1 year ago*

    Yup

    Auto naming functionality is neat in some cases, like the AI chat UI itself

    • It's convenient to have names when toggling between a few recent chats or searching through 10s or 100s of chats later on
    • I spawn new chats often and it's tedious to name them all
    • I don't have a strong preference for what the title is as long as it's clear what the chat was about

    Tab groups don't hit those points at all

    • I'll have a handful of tab groups
    • I don't make them often
    • I have a strong preference for what it's called, and the AI will have trouble figuring out exactly what I'm using those sites for
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 100 points 1 year ago* (10 children)

    The pathological need to find something to use LLMs for is so bizzare.

    Venture capital dumped so much money into the tech without understanding the full scope of what it was capable of. Now they're so in so deep that they desperately NEED to find something profitable it can do, otherwise they'll lose the farm.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Firefox has little financial motivation for this, though?

    Other than getting "AI" investor money, if that's the plan... But otherwise it just feels like they're following a meme.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    It makes a lot more sense when you realize that the Mozilla corporation is a for profit run by the same techno-fascist aggrandizing bait-and-switch narcissists as the rest of SV.

    I've been saying it for years, but I will never donate to Firefox until it is freed from the shackles of a for profit corporation that can use your donation for any profit motive it sees fit; not even related to Firefox.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Isn't the "for-profit" Mozilla Corporation owned by the "non-profit" Mozilla Foundation though?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I don't care. It's a corrosive force that causes them to pay for over priced CEO's and integrate services that nobody cares about into Firefox (like pocket) or that runs against their principles (container VPN's exclusive to Mozillas for-profit VPN).

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    90% of their cash flow comes from google to be the default search engine - they are probably trying to open up alternative routes of funding to reduce the risk, since it's not guaranteed that the money will keep coming due to the current lawsuit.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Right, I sympathize with that.

    …But also it’s ridiculous. Like why should including a feature with “AI” in it get them VC money? Even if that’s kinda reality?

    TBH they should just become a contributor to llama.cpp and market that somehow.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Like why should including a feature with “AI” in it get them VC money?

    Spoken like someone who's never interacted with Silicon Valley VCs... just imagine someone with tons of a money, a moderately competent business background, and very little understanding of even the basics of technology that you and I take for granted. And then make them stupid and greedy.

    "AI? Yes please! Here's some money, I've heard of Firefox so I know you're good for it." It's not really any more complicated than that, I don't think.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Well, exactly. Then why the pretense?

    They could contribute to some existing local inference effort, do actually useful dev work, and slap their brand on it. It would both be cheaper and "look" better to VCs.

    Basically do what ollama's doing but less shady.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Yeah. There would be a way to do it that I feel like might potentially be useful. The described method (doing clustering instead of just having a similarity threshold to group tabs together, vectorizing the entire tab title through a whole fucking network instead of just tokenizing it and calling two tabs similar if they have uncommon tokens that are within a certain similarity level) really sounds to me like people who have no real idea what they're doing, just being "ML experts" all over the codebase and fucking things up, and probably walking away very proud of themselves while helping themselves to bunches and bunches of the Mozilla Foundation's Google-money.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    even without AI, to me tab groups are already feature creep bloat in browsers. do people really put that much effort into organizing tabs?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 15 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    No, but I think the idea of a second layer of organization to tabs is a wonderful idea. Maybe not a gig of RAM to sort them, sure.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    Yes, especially at work. Different tasks, different tab groups. Once the task is done, the group dies. Really useful when working on multiple tasks at "the same time".

    Pair that with multi account containers and temporary containers and it's a godsend tool for web dev.

    Now does that need AI in any capacity? Absolutely not! I'm more upset that they're even considering such thing because ir sounds utterly useless. A browser should do the browser thing and get out of my way.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I like the tab groups. I use them often at work to group an issue with related tabs and my attempts at solving it. Also makes it easier to pause work on one problem and work on something else because I have the tabs grouper and know exactly where to go back.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I like the tab groups.

    And nobody should stop you installing an extension that provides tab groups. I agree with the other commentator that some features can be left to extensions and don't need to be part of the core web browser, though.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    True, but I'm not sure that an extension would have the necessary access to manipulate the browser like that. I don't think it should. A malicious extension could do horrible things.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    I’m not sure that an extension would have the necessary access to manipulate the browser like that.

    I don't know if they still do but they used to have. That, however, is something to discuss with the genius decision makers at Mozilla who decide to break extension APIs every couple of years. Firefox on Android still hasn't recovered from last time.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago

    You probably look at tabs as something inherently transient. In my tab group powered workflow a lot of tabs are persistent between browser restarts and stay open at all times. To try to formalize it, there is a set of core tabs that are permanently open, and there are transient tabs are opened and closed from those core tabs. Before tab groups I used "Tree Style Tab" extension but I like tab groups more. It's especially cool tab groups are integrated well with containers so that you can have for example I2P tab group tied to I2P container configured to use I2P proxy port to automatically browse all tabs opened within group through your I2P proxy port.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    It is to some people. My approach though, when I happen to have multiple "work group" to organize, is just to use my OS ability to have multiple windows. No need for any extra bloat, the feature is already there, and it works as I'm used to.

    But apparently, using the tools already available to you is not a common skill these days :(

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    But apparently, using the tools already available to you is not a common skill these days :(

    So, are you not understanding that other people work differently, or are you just not using that skill?

    Besides offering different approaches for different preferences, there are clear benefits to the extra level of organization. As an additional exercise, try to picture someone using multiple windows and tab groups.

    Not everyone operates on the basic level. Hell, why even have tabs? The OS can manage multiple windows, and you can use multiple desktops to achieve the same result without that bloat.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 214 points 1 year ago* (13 children)
    browser.ml.chat.enabled   false
    
  • source
  • hideshow 13 child comments
  • [–] 67 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You only disable the chat. Overall setting seems to be browser.ml.enable.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I hate how many of these you have to do on any new installation of Firefox.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    A space for vanilla ff experience extension, sort of like sanemacs?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 50 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Just make it an official extension ffs...

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (32 children)

    I just wish one could donate to firefox development specifically. Then they could rid it of all the advertisement and tracking stuff.

  • source
  • hideshow 32 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (31 children)

    Bless your heart.

    They will do whatever they believe will maximize profit.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 31 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (23 children)

    I thought mozilla was a non profit?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 23 child comments
  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Mozilla is a bizarre Matryoshka doll with a for profit company inside of the nonprofit. If anything, I believe this structure is responsible for Mozilla's problems

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    So the profit from the for-profit is passed up to the non-profit.

    This is a really common organisational structure and not bizarre.

    There's loads of worthy criticisms to make of mozilla but this is not one of them.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Sure, whereupon the CEO alone can receive an 8 figure compensation package. That is not at all an issue to the viability of a non-profit.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    It's not as simple as just deciding to hire people at lower rates of pay.

    Cost cutting is a tricky game. When an organisation is not on a positive trajectory, cost cutting has a very high risk of re-enforcing the underlying problems.

    That's not to say cost cutting isn't a worthy objective, but it needs to be carefully considered.

    If you want a CEO with the right skills and connections you need to pay.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    But they have a strong history of paying a lot for CEOs that don't have the right skills and connections. It's not just this one, it's a systemic issue for them.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    On one hand you're correct in that their CEOs haven't been able to turn the situation around.

    On the other hand it's hubris to suggest that you know better than whoever is doing the hiring.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Non profits do have corporate leeches too. The executives at Mozilla have executive salaries. That is, hundreds of thousands, or millions.

    They don't work out of the goodness of their hearts. And Mozilla has to find a way to earn the income to pay their bloated salaries.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Non-profit isn't the same as not-for-profit

    Take American Red Cross

    They make bank on blood donations. Also, they take in way more than they put out.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    This smells like BS.

    Is mozilla non-profit, not-for-profit, or for-profit?

    You dont really know do you.

    "I dont like mozilla so ill just assume they must be profiteering assholes somehow"

    "Its the vibe of the thing"

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I only use Firefox. I've only used Firefox since 2000.

    They, by their own statements, are a 501( C )3, which is a non-profit, not a not-for-profit.

    Sit down.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    You seem to be able to google "mozilla non profit" but unable to elucidate whether it is in fact a non-profit and why that is so.

    Again, you're offering hand wavy vibe based explanations as to why mozilla is "bad". What exactly is the problem?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I have worked for non-profits.

    They are completely allowed to make a profit.

    You are mistakenly under the impression that I'm against Mozilla.

    If you go back to my original comment, I merely explained what I explained here. Mozilla is a non-profit, not a not-for-profit.

    You decided to take that as an attack on Mozilla, for some strange reason, and attacked me. I just turned that same energy back on you.

    Did I ever attack Mozilla? Did you attack me?

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (4 children)

    Profit can be distorted based on how much employees are being paid.

    They're a "non-profit," but their CEO makes millions of dollars per year. I'd say that's a profit.

    Believing otherwise is just falling for rhetoric that exists to take advantage of our naivete so people richer than us can be even richer.

    Many of you will disagree with this (because you're greedy consumerists), but their employees also typically don't need to be paid nearly as much as they are. Their employees are also working to maximize profit, albeit from a different, less-effective angle.

    Money brings out the worst in people. I don't really value the input of people going to bat for the businessmen taking their money. Too often I see useful idiots proud to be ripped off and getting angry whenever someone points it out. It's really the norm at this point, which is sad.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Calling whatever you like "profit" cant really be rebutted, it's subjective semantics.

    Yes CEOs are paid lots of money. Why would mozilla choose to over pay staff?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Are you really asking why would the people at the top of an organization choose to overpay themselves?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Sorry boss it's kinda laughable to suggest they choose their own salaries.

    Obviously it would be negotiated, with a panel overseeing the procurement and hiring process.

    That panel has no interest in overpaying executives. Obviously they would pay just enough to secure someone with the right network and skills. Just because they earn more than you does not mean they're overpaid.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago*

    Oh, so they and their friends are part of a panel that chooses each others salaries? I wonder how that ends up with everyone getting bloated salaries. Such a mystery.

    It doesn't take a genious to figure this out. Look at executive salaries from other companies. They are clearly over-compensated on average.

    Just because they earn more than you does not mean they're overpaid.

    I don't care that they make more than me. I care that their salary keeps going up, while Firefox's market-share keeps going down, and the product keeps getting worse.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    That is disingenuous.

    People underestimate the cost of building a fucking browser, it's not the equivalent of maintaining a array sort app on fucking github.

    Some random dude promising to "donate from time to time" is not a valid business model.

    I wish they'd strip down and just focus on the browser, but fund it HOW? Ads? Subscription?

    The reason a lot of companies are doing AI shit is essentially RD shooting in the dark, hoping something will pan out.

    You have to do this if you are a tech company and want to survive in the future.

    It's fun to meme on ai and but that shit is coming and pretending it doesn't exist or has no value simply isn't true.

    So I ask everyone again, what business model exists for a software company to make money without ads or charging a monthly subscription.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Some random dude promising to "donate from time to time" is not a valid business model.

    A lot of people donating, while not spending that money on dumb projects, and worse exectutives is a valid business model. Mozilla just doesn't want to do that, because they care more about their executives than they care about Firefox.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    People underestimate the cost of building a fucking browser

    The browser is built. I don't want to see them have a gigantic development staff because further updates are just as likely to enshitify as to improve something.

  • source
  • parent
  • load more comments
    view more: next ›
    14 comments in c/fuck_ai@lemmy.world view that post