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[–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

Bernie doing what he always does now, and trying to redirect activist energy into the party to die. Fuck Bernie.

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  • 31 comments in c/news@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 31 points 1 year ago

    On the latest leg of his Fighting Oligarchy Tour, U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders headed to West Virginia for rallies on Friday and Saturday where he continued to speak out against the billionaire class's control over the political system and the Republican Party's cuts to healthcare, food assistance, and other social programs for millions of Americans—and prove that his message resonates with working people even in solidly red districts.

    ”Whoever said West Virginia was a conservative state?" Sanders (I-Vt.) asked a roaring, standing-room-only crowd at the Capitol Theater in Wheeling. "Somebody got it wrong."

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  • [–] 28 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    "Sometimes I am attacked by my opponents for being far-left, fringe, out of touch with where America is," said Sanders. "Actually, much of what I talk about is exactly where America is... You are living in the wealthiest country in the history of the world, and if we had good policy and the courage to take on the billionaire class, there is no reason that every kid in this country could not get an excellent higher education, regardless of his or her income. That is not a radical idea."

    ☝️ 100% this. Democrats, you want a candidate that will win? Stop focusing so much on what your donors want you to do, and start focusing on what your country needs you to do.

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  • [–] 39 points 1 year ago (16 children)

    West Virginia is hard on MAGA. Either this is every Dem in the state or MAGA is finally waking up.

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  • [–] 74 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I lived in MAGA country near WV in 2016. Folks there knew I wasn’t a red hat but when they found out I was a Bernie Bro they told me how they respected him for his consistency in hating the wealthy.

    They hate billionaires, too. Hell, I almost got a bunch of rednecks to agree with socialism just by avoiding scary words.

    They want the same things, they just haven’t been presented with it. I am convinced that if Bernie was the nominee he’d have carried West Virginia.

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I tell this to everyone at every opportunity:

    If Bernie was the DNC nominee in 2016 he would have beat Trump according to literally every single general poll:

    https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2016/trump-vs-sanders

    He had a ten point+ lead against Trump compared to Hillary. Hillary just polled better in the DNC primary. Funny then how the DNC made their constituents care more about who could win their primaries than who could win the actual presidential election.

    That heavily favored Bernie winning against anyone.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Seven hospitals are expected to shut down in the state as a result of the law's Medicaid cuts, and 84,000 West Virginians will lose Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits, according to estimates.

    If this doesn't do it what will?

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    The Bernie-Trump pipeline is a thing. MAGA is fueled by social and economic uncertainty, and unlike the Dem establishment Bernie actually offers solutions to those things. The problem is that solutions from the left are incessantly shut down by the establishment (with little resistance from progressive leaders) while "solutions" from the right are embraced by it (and when they aren't, the right actually fights to change that), so undereducated people in red states see two realistic choices, one that has solutions for their troubles and one that doesn't. My point being that plenty of Republican voters only vote red because the blue side offers them exactly nothing, not because they want an all-white ethnostate. Theoretically that group has no reason to hate Bernie.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    two realistic choices, one that has solutions for their troubles and one that doesn't.

    One that claims to have a solution. They're still dumb for not realising Republicans don't give a shit about their troubles and their supposed solutions would only make things worse.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    Anything to downplay people being excited about progressives.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Unfortunately it's kinda hard to get too excited at this point for a lot of us.

    Live in a state where the state overwhelmingly votes for things like keeping abortion legal, requiring paid sick leave, removal of gerrymandering, or even getting rid of fucking puppy mills, but then also overwhelmingly votes for the party who keeps overturning the bills passed by voters over and over and over again and you stop believing that people will actually wake the fuck up and instead continue to vote for that big R next to the name like idiots.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    People will vote for whoever can persuade them that their interests will be protected. That's why Trump has his populist schtick even if it's a load of horseshit. There is no intention of ever doing anything he has promised poor people, because you don't make (enough) money doing things that actually help poor people.

    He will make the claim though, and then follow through on his promise to hurt scapegoats. That alone is enough to keep just enough people on his hook.

    Meanwhile, recycling middle of the road Democrats who are way too willing to compromise their party's (supposed) values bc they're afraid of stepping on wealthy people's toes, only gives fuel to the argument that both sides are the same. The right knows this, and they very successfully use this argument (which is partially true) to create disinformation fueled voter apathy and control the narrative.

    Using this strategy, the right doesn't even have to worry about actually winning over voters from the middle or left bc they can always fall back on the base who is motivated by a scapegoat. They don't even need a "good" candidate, they just need someone who can be persuasive enough.

    It's like the saying " I don't have to have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you."

    Frankly, if the Democrats actually support the values they claim, they should understand that in 2025, wealthy people need to have their toes stepped on. We are not supposed to have one America where the wealthy profit from exploitation, and another America where everyone else to get exploited. Acknowledging that fact, is the very persuasive elephant in the room that would actually go very far in persuading people the both sides argument isn't true. Except neither side is willing to address it.

    Republicans won't address it bc keeping that elephant invisible is the entire reason they care about running this country. They need power and control in order to protect their own interests.

    I would like to believe that the reason Democrats won't address it, is bc they have mistakenly convinced themselves that throwing endless piles of money into a campaign (via their wealthy donors) will help them create the most marketable candidate who can pull voters from the center and right. In other words, they're too focused on outrunning the bear rather than their opponent.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    The trouble is I work around these people... there's way more thought put in to this than what I deal with.

    "I ain't gonna vote for no gun grabbin democrat"

    That's all it is. Nevermind Trump was pushing more gun grabbing than any of our last, they found a catchy slogan and that's it.

    If it's not about gun grabbing, it's about abortion, if it's not about abortion it's because it's the "christian party", if it's not about that it's "for America."

    There is no thought to it, it's they know the R is all they need to check and all will be good. When it's not good they get upset, they freak out, they scream, they yell, then go right back in and check the R again.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    I'm not arguing with you that there are people that will pathologically vote Republican. Those aren't the people that anyone should be worried about changing/trying to convince to switch sides. Doing so would be a losing strategy, and trying to outrun the bear.

    There are way more people throughout the entire U.S. that fall into the voter apathy/"didn't bother bc I've accepted both sides are essentially the same" camp. Those are the people that could be won over by Democrats not selecting an establishment candidate. This would be focusing on outrunning the opponent instead of the bear.

    Why do you think so many people voted Clinton/Gore in 1992? When he first ran, Bill Clinton was just a smooth talking young guy from Arkansas, who seemed like he genuinely cared about people. Compared to Bush, he seemed like an outsider and a breath of fresh air.

    This is a fuck ton of blue (including West Virginia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_United_States_presidential_election

    Look at all the blue on that 1992 map, and compare it to all the red on this map when Dukakis ran against Bush in 1988: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_United_States_presidential_election

    Flashback: When Bill Clinton Was A Populist

    The answer won Clinton rave reviews, partly--ok, mostly--because Clinton showed so much ability to connect with average Americans. (It helped, too, that Bush was so utterly lacking in the same ability.) But the answer was also a hit because it made a persuasive case on substance--one that would actually work pretty well today, right down to Clinton's suggestion that simply reducing national debt isn't a strategy for recovery. It takes investment, he says, and controlling health care costs.

    We tend to remember the Clinton presidency for its largely centrist pattern of governance--the focus on balanced budgets, enthusiastic promotion of free trade, and so on. But that was a reaction (and, I'd argue, a mostly necessary reaction) to the political circumstances Clinton faced once in office. Back in 1992, even as he was promoting himself as a New Democrat who was tough on crime and demanded work from welfare recipients, he was still a pretty unabashed populist. He championed the need for public investment to create jobs and universal health care, giving them more priority than adopting a crash course towards balanced budgets.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    BuT hE's A sOcIaLiSt!

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Sanders would have beat Drumpf the first time and the second time but the Dems are so bought out by billionaires and lobbyists that they are just as savage as the GOP!

    Bernie for President 2028! 💜

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    hence why you think they are both are a uniparty, they both collude together. and why trump has faced very little resistance form the DNC, whenever he cut taxes or is campaigning, in secret they want him to win, so they can keep thier tax cuts they benefit under trump.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    They saw Sanders and expected fried chicken. we don't read good in the South.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    All of the people left and immediately continued voting for Republicans. The end.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    one of vances strongholds.

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  • 24 comments in c/upliftingnews@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 50 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    Its so sad that Bernie is old , he has the guts and enthusiasm to change this country.

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  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    He should have been elected in 2016, we where robbed back then and we where robbed again in 2020

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  • [–] 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The crossroads moment for America was in 2016 where I think Bernie had a genuine shot at Trump and could have taken history on another path.

    2020 I think it was already too late, I don't think we were actually robbed of anything there.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    The crossroads moment for America was 2000.

    The supreme court looked at ballots cast for Gore and his green agenda and said "nah they didn't mean it, let's put Bush in" and the rest is history.

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  • [+] -16 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Enthusiasm? Yes. Guts? Highly debatable. Bernie seems pathologically incapable of picking fights with the liberal establishment, which is necessary to get anything done.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    By himself? I think he is being realistic we only have two parties in the US he has to join one and the democrats are the only ones closer to his ideals.

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  • [+] -8 points 1 year ago*

    Not by himself, using the millions of progressive-leaning Americans who want him and his platform. He doesn't need to straight up cut them off, but Bernie could and should have used his influence with the American electorate to take a more hardline approach with the Democrats. This is exactly what much weaker rightwing Dems or independents do, and it works. Meanwhile what Bernie does clearly isn't working. I mean in terms of his platform, what has Bernie actually done? His platform is immensely popular yet his deference to the liberal establishment means he can barely get any of it done. Just because he caucuses with the Democrats doesn't mean he needs to obey their every whim. You can't effect change—especially leftwing change—by being nice.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    huh? the man repeatedly explicitly says "the current democrat establishment is actively hindering the progress we want to see and needs to go away", what more do you want him to say? Should he be telling his supporters to get sniper rifles?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Too little too late. "The current democrat establishment is actively hindering the progress we want to see and needs to go away" should have come in 2016, 2020 or even 2024. Hell, he'll flip back to his old script come the midterms, but either way what he (and everyone else) should be doing now is call for civil disobedience, worker organization and resistance in the streets. The focus on electoral politics and flipping red states this late in the game when democracy is so obviously dead is the exact opposite of guts.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 year ago

    “...but what should we do when the highborn and wealthy take to crime? Indeed, if a poor man will spend a year in prison for stealing out of hunger, how high would the gallows need to be to hang the rich man who breaks the law out of greed?”

    ― Terry Pratchett, Snuff

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  • [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

    West Virginia is like 1920s-1930s Kansas, far more liberal than most give them credit for, and they are suffering, screaming for someone to listen to them, speak to them, speak for them.

    And fuck y'all judging us in the South! (Meh, WV is "South" in spirit.) Go watch some actual journalism. Watch someone go out and interview us without judgement, no gotcha headlines, no leading questions, no bias. Santenello's interviews have left in tears more than once.

    https://www.youtube.com/@PeterSantenello

    One time he catches some kids jumping off a creek bridge, rolls up to interview. The fat boy that wanted to be an historian had me in tears. Gods that kid knew his shit, so smart, and so little opportunity.

    Santenello rolls all over America, captures our stories. Withhold your fucking judgement until you've met us.

    Anyway, take an hour and watch Bernie's talk. You might note, he isn't speaking to a liberal stronghold, he's speaking to Nowwhere, WV. It's worth your time. It's a lesson on how we win.

    EDIT: Better video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFoGSwkra24

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Not to hijack your point, but this would require liberals to actually do things for the working class, so they'll just pretend everyone outside the blue wall hates democracy instead.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The point really is that Bernie isn't a liberal and is talking to everyone. Liberals are created by the Democratic party talking points and incapable of changing the party platform. Liberals just receive and act passively.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    I was more addressing the part about how people like to dismiss the South as hopeless racists, and trying to explain that using the fact any other interpretation would require liberals to confront their own failures and hypocrisies. On the other hand while Bernie has his problems, he doesn't beat around the bush and directly addresses people's problem, so his words resonate everywhere.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    YOU get it! So goddamned sick of social media beating my ass for living in the South. The racism is nowhere near what it's made out to be, seen worse up North. The conservative governance is fucking appalling though.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    +1 for Peter's videos. I went down such a YouTube hole with that guy for a while. I'm from the PNW, so about as far from the south as you can get, and it's really fascinating to listen to such candid conversations with people.

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  • I know it’s not really important, but what a beautiful theater!

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    But West Virginia will only vote for people like Joe Manchin! People who agree with Joe Manchin about everything told me so!

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  • [–] [M] 4 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    This might break rule b) and I don't find it uplifting (a bit orphancrushingmachine when you think about it, even) but I don't think there's much use in deleting this at this point.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Thank you for the reasonable take. Clearly it resonated with people. I think that's the way to moderate- even if it isn't a perfect fit, if enough people on the sub feels like it is, it's reasonable to let it be, in my opinion.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    I would've removed the post if I saw it before it gained traction. The thing with these things is people usually upvote them because they see it at !all instead of thinking it fits !upliftingnews, and too much of these posts can dilute the quality of our community and drive away users who wanted the specific thing we're looking for.

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