That's underselling how racist Churchill was towards Indians. "Beastly people with a beastly religion".
Though, to be fair, he was also racist towards african peoples, jewish people, arab people, the Chinese and the Irish.
That's underselling how racist Churchill was towards Indians. "Beastly people with a beastly religion".
Though, to be fair, he was also racist towards african peoples, jewish people, arab people, the Chinese and the Irish.
Don't ask Churchill about his undue sympathy toward captured Nazi soldiers either
The Brits committed horrific atrocities in India. They pillaged the country and engineered multiple famines.
I recommend the Anarchy by William Darlymple which covers the rise of the British East India company.
They were the Zionists of the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries, They wrecked the areas they colonised leaving lasting wars and instability up to the present day.
Some actual Churchill quotes. This is who repeatedly gets voted the "Greatest Briton" by the British people.
Why was china hit with a famine again?
Lysenkoism, Anti-intellectualism and other terrible terrible policies. But hey, Mao ate veggies uwu
Lysenkoism had been the official scientific stance on evolution in China from 1946 to 1956. Sounds like he had fuck all to do with China, sure.
Several of the techniques employed on collectivized farms, such as sextupling the density of seeds or deep plowing, were solely based on Lysenkoist teaching and had a fatal impact on yields.
Forced collectivisation of an entirely agrarian economy.
Industrial policy that encouraged small scale iron smelting in homemade furnaces causing huge environmental damage.
Agricultural policy that ordered the extermination of sparrows who then couldn't keep insect populations down causing catastrophic damage to crops.
Brutally cracked down on any dissenting voices, including scientists who happened to point out the potential flaws in Maos plan
Contrary to OPs post, covering up the mistakes afterward and blaming outside influences and counter-revolutionaries rather than the failure of central policy.
Why was India?
Because Brits exploited the resources. For eg in Bengal famine Brits were exporting rice, whereas Indian people were starving and other reasons were high tax imposition and debt trap on farmers. The forced Indigo farming in 1/4 of the farm made the soil less cultivable for the next time. Many reasons.
According to a Wikipedia article, "After the launch of Reform and opening up, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) officially stated in June 1981 that the famine was mainly due to the mistakes of the Great Leap Forward as well as the Anti-Right Deviation Struggle, in addition to some natural disasters and the Sino-Soviet split."
The official statement is here, but I don't read Chinese.
Ah. Google Translate comes through. I think the relevant part is where they say (machine translated): "Mainly due to the mistakes of the "Great Leap Forward" and the "Anti-Rightist Movement", coupled with natural disasters at the time and the Soviet government's treacherous breach of the contract, my country's national economy encountered serious difficulties from 1959 to 1961, and the country and the people suffered heavy losses."
No one knows and probably never will. It was not a great leap forward for China that's for sure
Churchill was a racist piece of shit.
So are people who disparage entire nationalities for the actions of a few.
I've never done anything to you or India; So can you explain to me why I should get fucked?
It was more than "a few". You can get fucked for downplaying the scale of the atrocities the british committed. The entire european economy is based on the exploitation of the global south. You can get fucked for tone-policing the anger that causes.
Ah gotcha, so a newborn in the local hospital is responsible for the atrocities committed by a man who died 60 years ago, seems logical.
I'm not downplaying anything, I'm pointing to the fact that your anger is misdirected. There are many British people that have had absolutely no say or action in any of what you've stated, yet you claim they should get fucked for no reason other than where they're born.
Yeah your right, Scotland, Ireland and Wales had no say, not fuck Britain, fuck England
Ah so thats your basis for responsibility, not action, but circumstances.
What if that British newborn was born to Indian parents? are they now both responsible and a victim of their own doing?
I didn't see anyone rejecting the spoils of plunder
There are plenty here who agree with you, unfortunately they're too busy trying to survive the same persecutions you're angry at them for supposedly perpetrating. The working class in the UK have absolutely no say in any of what you're campaigning about; but your narrative of "fuck British people because they were born British" does nothing but alienate them from your cause.
It becomes a case of "damned if I do, damned if I don't"
I can't speak for the actions of people that died a century before I existed of course, but I can near enough guarantee that neither I, nor any of my fellow working class citizens have caused any famines in India. (I say near enough; because for all I know there could be some obscure despot running around who just so happens to be from a working class village in Scotland or some shit).
I wholeheartedly agree with the last statement. It is a human condition ultimately; we're seeing the same situation out in the states, where a lot of immigrant families voted in favour of tighter immigration (the "fuck you I got mine" mentality). I suppose you could argue it's due to Americanisation of the people who have migrated, but to me it just highlights the fact that morality isn't based on nationality. I believe brandishing any nationality/ethnicity or race as anything other than human only perpetuates 'us and them' mentalities, and I believe it's by design.
Until the world wakes up and realises it's not north Vs south or east Vs west; but rather rich Vs poor, nothing will change.
You gonna pretend your entire life hasn't been built on a framework that raped 90% of the planet?
The irony of an Aussie saying this is palpable.
When are you going to stop the rampant and ongoing persecution of the aboriginal population and the intentional erosion of their way of life?
There's nothing I can do about my ancestors' actions; but you have a real opportunity to enact the change you feel our ancestors should have done at home.
Actually doing quite a lot in my capacity. Sovreignty was never ceded.
What are you doing to press for the return of cultural items illegally acquired and held in the UK?
I mean you're demanding i do my bit to dismantle a system (which I actually very definitively did in a recent vote), surely you can write the British museum a nasty letter.
Or did it simply never occur to you?
I'm glad to hear it. I am doing everything in my capacity to help with the repatriation of the empire's illegally pillaged artifacts.
Admittedly that's not a great deal currently though, most of my spare time is spent helping out at the local food bank, as there's a bit of a malnourishment crisis going on in the UK ATM (as I'm sure there is most places tbh. The disparity between rich and poor seems to have grown exponentially since covid and the job market is only compounding the issue).
You guys should have ceded from the crown eons ago; if I had the choice I certainly would. You won't find much love for the monarchy among the working class in Britain.
We got ourselves an old fashioned nice off! Keep it going!
Trying, but the monarchist cucks keep drowning out the voices of those of us who want out.
Sadly I suspect the US implosion means more and more are going to cling to mummy britain to save us defensewise despite the fact that historically does not work out so well for us...
I mean, Churchill was a massive racist. The famine in India killed approx. 2.1 million people.
But Zedong's policies led to a famine that killed approx. 36 million peoole, literally 10-15 times worse. It's nice that he grew his own veggies I guess but fuck me that's an insane failure of policy. If you managed to fuck up so bad you end up killing 36 million, I think it's fair to say you deserved the title of monster.
It killed far more - estimates go between 6 to 10 million. 2 million was the low end British estimate to make it seem not as bad.
Can you source that claim? The estimates I can find are between 0.8 and 3.8 million. There's outliers going up to 5-6, but I don't know where your 10 million comes from.
Where do your claims come from?
They're clearly sourced on Wikipedia. Your turn.
Oh ok. Mine are also clearly sourced in the Liberal Holy Scripture (Wikipedia) then.
The famine in India was very much manmade and could have been greatly mitigated if Britain desired, much like the Irish Genocide. The famine in China absolutely didn't result in the deaths of 36 million, that's Black Book of Bullshit numbers and it was sadly a common occurrence well before Mao was in power, which is why they were trying to get rid of pests in the first place: food security was a huge issue, one that has thankfully been solved since the party acknowledged the experts and corrected course.
As expected, the toll of Churchill's genocide is pushed down as far down as you can while it's zillions and bajillions whenever the commies are to blame. It's transparent as hell.
Britain did attempt to mitigate it, but natural disasters prevented them from doing so effectively as they took out the rail lines to Bengal. Ultimately the famine lasted 1-2 years.
But mate, not even China (and the CCP) denies that Zedong primarily fucked up here (translated from http://www.gov.cn/test/2008-06/23/content_1024934_2.htm):
However, due to insufficient experience in socialist construction and insufficient understanding of the laws of economic development and the basic conditions of China's economy, and more importantly, due to Comrade Mao Zedong and many leading comrades at the central and local levels, who became complacent and eager for quick results in the face of victory, and exaggerated the role of subjective will and effort, they rashly launched the "Great Leap Forward" and the rural people's commune movement without serious investigation, research, or pilot projects. This led to a serious prevalence of Leftist errors, characterized by high targets, blind command, exaggeration, and a "communist style." From the end of 1958 to the early stages of the Lushan meeting of the Political Bureau of the Central Committee in July 1959, Comrade Mao Zedong and the Party Central Committee diligently led the entire Party in correcting the errors that had already been recognized. However, in the later stages of the Lushan Conference, Comrade Mao Zedong mistakenly launched a criticism of Comrade Peng Dehuai and subsequently launched a Party-wide "anti-Rightist" struggle. The resolution of the Eighth Plenary Session of the Eighth Central Committee regarding the so-called "anti-Party clique of Peng Dehuai, Huang Kecheng, Zhang Wentian, and Zhou Xiaozhou" was completely wrong. Politically, this struggle severely damaged democratic life within the Party, from the Central Committee down to the grassroots. Economically, it interrupted the process of correcting Leftist errors, prolonging their existence. Primarily due to the mistakes of the "Great Leap Forward" and the "anti-Rightist" campaign, coupled with natural disasters and the Soviet government's treacherous breach of contract, my country's national economy suffered severe difficulties from 1959 to 1961, causing significant losses to the country and the people.
And you may call 36 million bullshit, but that is the historical consensus. We know from official sources that the population in 1961 is 15 million lower than in 1959, but that difference also assumes no population growth, suggesting a much higher death toll as the Chinese population was growing very quickly at the time. And that's the Chinese estimating it:
It's next to impossible to get an exact number because the statistics were being manipulated by local governments at the time to look less bad. There's enough reason to believe Zedong didn't know the full extent of the famine (he seemed to believe it was ~5 million), because he too was fed bullshit from his underlings. So you may call it "Black book of bullshit" but I'm basing myself on sources from China, of people and institutions connected to the CCP.
Britain didnt attempt to mitigate shit in india. They kept taking it out. They looted the entire country. Ask the Irish how much Britain mitigated their assaults.
Its absolutely insane you believe that.
There's literally an entire section on relief efforts on Wikipedia, with plentiful sources (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943). It also clearly explains the aid wasn't enough and inadequately delivered, meaning it wasn't effective (especially initially). But it's not true that they did nothing at all.
I never said Mao didn't have his share of blame, but to claim he's a monster responsible for unspeakable misery not a paragraph after downplaying Churchill's genocide is pretty rich. The Great Famine was gonna happen regardless, it was just made worse by the attempts to prevent it, but the party immediately intensified efforts to make sure it never happened again. Can you say the same about British rule in India?
You literally just downplayed the death toll of the Great Famine. And Churchill was a racist dick, but he didn't purposefully genocide the Indians. He didn't give much of a shit, but relief efforts were sent and ultimately did arrive. It was horrible nonetheless, no doubt about that, but it pales in comparison to what happened in China.
Correction: Britain halfheartedly tried to mitigate the famine that was caused by their wartime policies, their land grabbing practices and wage practices. Bengal exported food to Sri Lanka in the initial months of the famine, the same playbook as with the Irish famine. When Britain finally delivered aid, they tried to make it some market scheme, with loans, rice injections into the market and rice payment for hard labor. Harebrained. The Brits prioritized the war in the region over effective famine relief. That's what Churchill did wrong.
Regarding Mao: The intent of most of his policies was to improve harvests. Of course, if you persecute your intellectuals, use the teachings of an absolute fucking moron as the basis of your policies and brand every failure to deliver as the work of evil rightists and saboteurs, you're going to kill a shit ton of people. Maybe a skilled war lord, he was utterly incompetent when it came to managing this famine. And so was the entire state apparatus.
If only Churchill had grown vegetables and issued meaningless scolds to his own administration, he would have been a true working class hero
People very much do not think churchill was a saint, he was precisely the monster required at the time during WWII
Churchill repeatedly gets voted the greatest briton of all time by the British people.
It's actually fucking insane Churchill and his policies killed 4 million Indians while he was in office and you call it "precisely the monster required at the time" fuck if you think so lowly of brown people I guess Hitler was the monster required for the time too, he broke the western European colonial empires to the point their empires crumbled not long after. So 6 million Jews, makes Hitler the most evil man on earth but 4+ million south Asians dying under Churchills watch is "precisely the monster required for the time" you fucking dunce
Literally referring to his lionisation during wwii as anyone who had the barest conception of history would grasp.
Wowie, so you post empire-sanctioned liberal propaganda on a meme about the propaganda of liberal media. Wow so big brain!
There is literally no link I could have found that would not have triggered your criticism. There is literally no Western media outlet that would not be labeled "empire-sanctioned" by you.
What sources would you consider trustworthy?
Anything that doesn't fall under the empire umbrella, as was clear:

So if I make an official-looking website on my home server, slap a fancy sounding domain on it, and send it to you, you'll trust it?
Answer the question. You answered the opposite question of "what won't you trust?"
And if you don't have an answer, it's okay to say you need to reconsider what your criteria are. That's okay. That's how we figure things out
So theOnion.com is trust worthy?
Kidding aside, I was hoping you could give some specific examples.
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