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[–] 73 points 1 year ago*

This is a very romanticized version of American intervention in WW2.

The bitter truth is that we had guys with Nazis war trophies back home who were waving Confederate flags the year after their deployment ended. Hell, we had guys like Mark Fuhrman, who were decorated detectives in the LAPD back in the early 90s with a naked well-established fetish for European fascism. And that's before you get into the Ratlines that imported thousands of Nazis into Latin America under cover of the CIA and Opus Dei.

This isn't something that got lost in translation or distorted through history. It's a direct consequence of American fascism reproducing itself in America as an outcropping of American tendencies.

The Stars and Stripes is as much a symbol of fascist oppression in Vietnam and Indonesia and the DRC and the Oklahoma Reservation system as any German flag.

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  • [–] 27 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    This is not a meme, it’s reality.

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  • [–] 106 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (26 children)

    The US praised the Nazis for killing the communists. They supported their "cause" riiiiight up until they started attacking western Europe AKA the countries that actually matter.

    The US also hired tons of Nazi "scientists," including granting them immunity for their roles in the Holocaust. They also granted the head of Unit 731 immunity (specifically from the USSR who rightly wanted him executed) in exchange for the human experimentation data. NATO coincidentally also has a ton of Nazis in its leadership.

    The US went as far as installing prominent Nazi figures back into West Germany in the same way they let confederates go back to their lives after the civil war. Whereas the Soviets executed Nazi leaders in East Germany because that's what they fucking deserve. The US then claimed that the executed Nazis were victims of communism and included them in their "communism death toll" numbers.

    This isn't an error. The US has always been sympathetic to Nazis, before, during, and after the war. They only begrudgingly pitched in against them because they viewed western Europe as slightly more important.

    Finally, the US didn't even fucking do that much. Certainly nowhere near enough to justify their claim that they "saved the world" in WWII. The USSR and UK each did far more yet the US seems to think the USSR was fighting for the Nazis and the UK was a scared poodle hiding in their island until the heroic Americans came to save them, when in reality, the tide had already turned against the Nazis by the time the US joined. They also nuked Japan just because they could, it had nothing to do with the war because they already had intelligence that Japan was about to surrender.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    The only Nazi rally held outside of Nazi Germany (in the 20th century) was held in the US.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago

    The Nazi eugenics program was also strongly inspired by what the US was doing at the time.

    It's just that the Nazi went a bit too far, too obvious (and mainly they lost the war). It was one of the arguments of the defense in the Nuremberg trial that the German eugenics differed little from what was practiced in the US.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    They also granted the head of Unit 731 immunity (specifically from the USSR who rightly wanted him executed) in exchange for the human experimentation data.

    "Experimentation" data that was entirely useless, if I remember correctly.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 1 year ago*

    I know, see Operation Paperclip and I also know that the end of the nazi Germany is mainly thanks to Rusia and allies, US entered when the main task was already done. Without the French and British resistance, USA couldn't even have managed to enter Germany.

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  • [+] 20 points 1 year ago (16 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Oh, it wasn't because of the fanatical dedication of the Japanese armed forces that were so dug in it would have taken years and cost thousands of American lives to defeat them, island by island? It was because they didn't want the Russians to hog all the glory? Never heard that one before

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    the first bomb was dropped on 6 August, the Soviet Union declared war on the 8th. But contrary to American expectations and post-war claims, the author’s diligent research in the Japanese sources demonstrates conclusively that it was the Soviet declaration of war, not the atomic bombs, that forced the Japanese to surrender unconditionally.

    Geoffrey Jukes review Racing the enemy: Stalin, Truman, and the surrender of Japan by Tsuyoshi Hasegawa

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  • [+] -9 points 1 year ago (13 children)
  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    I'm anti-tankie as the next guy. But pick up a history book. Soviet Russia did a huge amount of the work during WW2.

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  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago (7 children)
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    I didn't say I was anti-marxist. I'm anti-authoritarian. In all it's forms.

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  • [+] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Oh really? My bad. I've always heard it used specifically to talk about corrupted implementations of Marxism. E.g. Animal Farm.

    Err, maybe I'm confusing Marxism and socialism.

    I'm still not exactly clear on how any of it avoids corruption. At the end of the day, somebody decides whose street gets paved first.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    No, you’re not wrong. They’re muddying meaning of the word “tankie.”

    “Tankie” does not mean “commie.” Not all commies are tankies.

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    That is reductionist and overly simplistic. Just because they are all pejorative does not mean their meaning is identical. Not all communists are “tankies.”

    (But I know very well we need to agree to disagree on this, because I don’t think there’s any value in trying to convince you.)

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  • [+] 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)
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  • [+] -4 points 1 year ago* (4 children)
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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Spell out your point or shutup, stop being cryptic

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Explain the US love affair with Israel then.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago*

    Zionism is the one thing where anti-semites and Jews (at least zionist Jews) agree.

    Zionist Jews want it because it gives them their own country where they are not persecuted.

    Anti-semites want it, because it means that the Jews are not in their country.

    That's why even the literal Nazis supported zionism. Every Jew in Israel was one less Jew in Germany.

    You get the same thing still today with the most right-wing politicians supporting Zionism/Israel. On the one hand because it's a way to keep Jews far away and on the other hand because it can be used as a "I'm supporting Israel, so surely I can't be a Nazi. Anyway, let's go shoot some Muslims."-kind of excuse.

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    [–] 8 points 1 year ago

    This is why you learn to do the Roman salute instead, so people don't look at you wrong

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  • [–] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Oh shit, is it just the eventual end product of teenage rebelliousness?

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Combined with ignorance and neural disfunction

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Are you trying to say that dozens of millions of people in one specific country went nazi because of teenage rebelliousness, ignorance and neural disfunction?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Makes as much a sense as anything else

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  • 6 comments in c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world view that post
    [–] 22 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    Although it's a nice artistic rendering, I think the focus was poorly chosen here. The resurgence of fascism is not originating with poor or "hillbilly"-stereotyped folks (even if it's certainly true they're targeted for recruitment by the folks who are directly promoting those beliefs). Since fascism directly benefits the kind of people you'd see attending MAGA billionaire events more than it benefits the misguided grandkids of WWII soldiers, I have trouble seeing a point in focusing on the bottom of their power hierarchy. Among the most dangerous folks embracing fascism are tech billionaires (not just from the US, but globally) who buy into the whole Dark Enlightenment brand of right wing accelerationism, for example, but obviously they're not the only ones.

    The only meaningful, constructive reasons I can think of to turn attention towards less powerful people in the pro-authoritarian hierarchy is to either directly stand in the way of any harms they're committing or-- ideally-- for someone they think of as close to them to try to reach them-- to help them see reason.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    I read the comic as metaphorical for the state of the world in general, not a literal attack on low-income, undereducated individuals.

    We fought the nazis less than 100 years ago. We lost loved ones in the fight against tyranny. We brought that victory, and that trauma, home with us. But in the decades since, the number of people who lived and fought in those times is dwindling. All that we are left with today are the symbols of that time. Yes, there are plenty of us that know the history, that have heard the stories. But there are also plenty of us that have only seen the sleek, manicured projection of the ‘bad guys from Indiana Jones’ through the Hollywood lens. And some of that trauma has been passed down too.

    I feel like this comic is more about forgetting our own history.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago

    Sure, I agree it's not likely an intentional attack on such people. I do think for what it is, it's nicely done (as I tried to acknowledge earlier). :) Maybe there are more political cartoons/caricatures out there that go after the most powerful people involved. I can't see those running in most major newspapers these days, though.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    My co-worker found a confederate flag in is Asian-American mom's garage. She thought it was an old American flag.

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  • This post is meta. Just like real life, instead of debating the substance of the post we have people in the weeds discussing the minutiae of subjective inaccuracies. Things that cannot really be communicated in such a limited format based on the given theme. Like the democrats discussing what brand boot should be placed on your neck instead of the fact there should be no boot at all.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    It's basically the same tribe, with the same vacuum of ideology, the same selfish materialistic desires and a strong belief in moral relativism. Any kindness and self-sacrificial attitude (instead of cruelty and selfishness to the point of colonialism and slavery) seems to be nothing but an accident, or a spark of humanity that's quickly extinguished. From the hippies to Greta, I thank them all but I have no hope that their tribes will back them up as they never have, these are rare instances of kindness in a group of people that historically don't have much of it. And the US only joined WW2 when it was deemed a profitable venture, y'all gotta stop with this "we're heroes" bs, lol. No, your grandfather might have been brave (maybe he was just bloodthirsty? Or only a reluctant victim of circumstance?), but it doesn't make him a 'hero'. But what's an empire without military worship, right? 🙄

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