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No one's going to argue that there aren't going to be edge cases that are hard to criticize, but in general, supporting any kind of systemic vigilante justice always leads incredibly quickly to innocent people getting lynched and cycles of reciprocal violence.
When you want to do violence but it's generally frowned upon so you have to find a way to justify it
I've seen too much right-wing LGBT = pedophilia propaganda to jump at this one.
Yeah. Which is wrird since our communities tend to be pretty good about taking care of that problem when it surfaces.
Not if they aren't acting on it, geez.
If they woke up one day, realized to their horror they wanted to do some fucked up shit, and then just never did, that's crappy for them to have to deal with, and they're a champion for not making it anybody else's problem.
I always worry about this. Ive got some specific non-vanilla stuff that I didnt ask for and cant change. Lucky for me its nothing illegal or harmful, just non-standard.
It could just as easily have been the bad.
it can also easily become the bad, which is why "i have nothing to hide" morons need to be yanked by the ear
Plus a lot of child molesters aren't even attracted to children, just the power and control it gives them.
I think that it's also the fact that children, due to being inexperienced and lacking knowledge and strength to defend themselves, which makes them easy targets.
Explain how that's makes it better.
I did NOT say or imply that it makes anything better.
In fact, expanding the pool of potential abusers to those that just want power over others makes it worse.
Well, given sufficient leverage, they could sate themselves abusing and damaging adults!
So n9t, like, much better.
Depends. Are we talking paedophile in the sense of Epstein or in the sense of LGBTQ person?
Because right-wingers tend to call people who are not paedophiles paedophiles (very often just LGBTQ people), while protecting actual paedophiles like the republicans who are fighting to keep child marriage legal in the USA.
Yeah, this kind of vague, "kill your local pedophile :)" sentiment is often just an anti-LGBT dogwhistle and makes me uneasy.
If someone is going to post shit like this, and not actively tie it to the very obvious class dynamics of wealthy human traffickers, conservative Christians who promote child marriage, and politicians who protect them (without also being Anti-Semitic), then I just kind of assume it's a thinly veiled call for violence against queer people
I really hate how right wingers have bastardised the term to mean "LGBTQ people" meanwhile tons of right wingers are actually paedophiles
Child sexual abuse triggers me into a violent rage as that is how I stopped my abusers as a child. No human scares me. Please do not harm children or the world will be full of violence. But also I agree with the comments saying pedophilia is a mental disorder. Also I do not condone violence against them. Please just stop abusing children.
You're a pedo in treatment and never touched a child, good.
You're a pedo who touched children, no more empathy, go straight to hell.
You're a pedo and the president of the USA? Time to burn the system to the ground
Fuck the system.
Only if the system concents and is 18+
Okay but is rape as a weapon of terror during wartime as practiced on children still pedophilia if the perpetrator literally just punched a clock and popped a viagra or even military issued strap-on? or would that just be normal war crimes? Serious legal qiestion.
Also because i get the feeling a lot more people would be fans if it was.
AFAIK, pedophilia refers specifically to the sexual attraction to children. When it's used as a weapon per your scenario, it's both a war crime and child rape.
Like, if adult men as sexually assaulted as part of war crimes (and that's distressingly common), the perpetrators are likely not gay or bi-; they're 'just' committing atrocities.
The system is currently 237 years old, which would make fucking the system the opposite of child molestation.
This kind of rhetoric doesn't sit well with me. There is a difference between being a pedophile and abusing children. Pedophilia is a mental disorder and I can imagine that being attracted to children is pretty damn terrible if you're also trying to do the right thing. I think there needs to be acceptance towards pedophilia (not towards abusing children) so that the affected people feel safe in talking about their condition and get the appropriate help (so that they don't end up abusing children).
That's a sane take on a emotional matter. I agree.
We've had some success here with a program called "Don't become a perpetrator". Pedosexuals (which is the scientific term for people attracted to minors without acting upon their urges) could enter, as long as they hadn't committed any crime in regards to children or consuming illegal content. They could get psychological help as well as a chemical castration. Preventive approaches like this should be more common.
And here I thought you were going to counter with ahimsa or non-violence by urging violence is wrong. Nope, still lemmy.
I support treating pedos and murdering offenders. I don't think you're guilty until having done anything.
Treating non offenders? Good. Reveling in murder instead of simply putting people in prisons? Thanks no.
Yeah, that might be a bit extreme. I was mostly thinking about violent rapists when I said that. Sorry.
We all have these emotions from time to time, esp. when thinking about horrible criminals. That is only natural. As long as we do not act on hate we should be good.
Stop thinking about violent rapists so much. Can't be healthy for you.
You know, death sentence might not be that bad compared to what happens to pedos in prison.
You could even call it merciful.
Death sentence belongs to medieval times. The fact that some prisons are even worse than getting killed only highlights the fact that there is something deeply wrong with some countries.
Any reason, no matter how made up, is good, right?
Beating up Trump, Musk and co? Hell yeah.
This is a very obvious trick from the right.
"Kill all pedophiles!"
Yeah most people will say pedophiles are really bad and nobody wants to defend them, so they'll either agree or let it slide. However, they're not anticipating the next part
"All trans people are pedophiles!"
"All gay people are pedophiles!"
"All immigrants are pedophiles!"
Once you define a group of people as being subhuman and unworthy of human rights, then there is a strong motivation to expand the definition of that group to include more people that a lot of people don't like and won't stick their neck out to support for fear of getting labeled as part of that group and oppressed like them. The circle then just keeps growing as the machine needs more people in the outgroup to oppose. If there is broad consensus that pedophiles (or people who commit any type of crime) are a danger so foul that the people who might commit said crime should be summarily executed to subjected to torture, then oppressed minority groups will just be identified with said crime. Think about how panic about urban theft and murder was used to advance policies that harm racial minorities in the late 20th century, and how panic about "bolshevism" was a major driving force of the Holocaust. Nothing good comes from this path.
However, theyβre not anticipating the next part
I think we can easily retort βAll pedophile killers are pedophiles!β.
Right, but at this point pedophilia does exist as an actual phenomenon, which the right uses to build a culture of fear and suspicion in which they can frame all their arguments credibly.
Like people are actually worried about child abuse, for many good and bad reasons. So without addressing the fear and the underlying desire for just governance then no amount of political humanism will get through. People are, irrationally, more afraid of pedophiles than they are willing to criticize the cultural implications of the meanings of words.
That's not your fault, you aren't creating or reproducing this phenomenon and I largely agree with you. I just think its time to start coming up with better criticisms than trying to poke logical holes. The right is fighting a war and we are having an intellectual debate. I'm a firm advocate for scientific intellectualism, while exploring even philosophical implications of your plans and actions. I think this is logically strong, but practically weak argument.
Pedophilia is a mental disorder Just saying mind your words
Nah, pedophilia is a paraphilia. And if someone suffers from pedophilic disorder, it's kinda impossible for anyone other than healthcare to know that -- unless they've made some attempts to abuse someone.
To be fair, paraphilias were listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders as disorders before that definition was moved in DSM-5 to paraphilic disorder to be distinct from paraphilia (no longer de facto a disorder).
Anyway, pedophilia is a paraphilic disorder, which makes it a paraphilia and a mental disorder!
DSM
Miss me with that American junk. But with the same logic, would you also say that gender incongruence is a mental disorder? It's in the same books, in similar sections. It's faux pas to call something a mental disorder without focusing on why it'd be that.
The ICD (and I would hope the DSM) focuses mostly on the distress the patient gets from their condition. Someone's attraction to kids, without any actions, isn't enough to get diagnosed, as it's simply a paraphilia. If they're distressed by it, or act out, then it's a diagnostic criteria and something they'd be able to get treatment for.
Gender incongruence may be in the same book now, but being in the book does not necessarily mean it is a disorder (e.g. paraphilia). In fact, in DSM-5, gender incongruence (they call it gender dysphoria) was actually renamed from "gender identity disorder" to avoid the word "disorder".
DSM-5 defines a paraphilic disorder as "a paraphilia that brings distress, or when satisfied, brings harm to self or others" (paraphrased). I think pedophilia fits that description, because "if satisfied", that's what we'd consider "bringing harm to others". Perhaps the ICD has a different definition?
I mean, I didn't set the standards or write the books. All of these things have way too much complexity to properly categorize in the ever-shifting standards of society in different geographic and cultural regions, so of course different countries and different experts would treat these things differently. That also means what counts as a "mental disorder" can vary wildly from region to region. I daresay this is a universe where you and I are both right on the matter!
I'm not sure about the criterion differences between the ICD and DSM-5, and I for sure do not know enough to be an authority on the matter.
Well, I understand your emotions but there are more civilized ways to deal with this problem.
The abuser has to pay lifelong alimony to the abused. If the accusation turns out to be false, however, the "abused" has to pay.
This is right, but we have the law to not do it ourselves based on subjective judgement.
Wellβ¦ while an objective law is importantβ¦ Donβt get me wrong - if anyone would do anything to my girl Iβd personally rip their reproductive organs out and force feed that to them
Depends.
Pedophilia is likely an inherent sexual attraction, much like being straight, or LGBTQ+. It appears that the sexual attraction is not something that the person has control over. There's no good evidence that it can be changed. Some pedophiles are also sexually attracted to age-appropriate partners, some appear to be exclusively attracted to children. Moreover, it appears to split into nepophilia (infants, toddlers), pedophilia (pre-pubescent children older than toddlers), and ephebophilia (pubescent children and post-pubescent children younger than the legal age of consent).
Epstein appears to have been attracted to post-pubescent girls younger below the age of consent, but he also seems to have had sexual relationships with adult women. E.g., he wasn't exclusively a pedophile.
Child molestation is a completely different matter. Child molesters can be pedophiles, but they can also be opportunistic sexual predators. A significant amount of child molestation is also incest, e.g., a parent or close relative (almost always male) using a child for sexual gratification because they can (proximity, opportunity), rather than preferring children. Either way, child molesters that sexually abuse children are very high risk offenders; they are often very, very likely to commit the same crime repeatedly.
So, I'd draw the line a line between someone that's sexually attracted to minors, and someone that acts. The child molester? Yeah, fuck 'em with a chainsaw. Pedophiles that haven't yet done anything (including grooming!)? No.
What about capitalist, pedophile nazis?
Thanks to the brave, strong internet tough guys at lemmy who totally aren't pathetic losers overcompensating for something, we have such brilliant hits as

- this
and who knows what else? Time to consolidate & merge all these expressions into one proud circlejerk & achieve great glory.
Being a Nazi is a choice someone actively makes. I don't think it's the same with being a pedophile (not defending pedophiles or anything)
I've heard people go with the thought that "they wish to cause harm to other individuals, so why should people not cause harm to them?" (For Nazis, obviously). Whether or not I totally agree with that sentiment..... I'm not sure.
But comparing Nazis to pedophiles doesn't work.
What's with all the anti-republican propaganda on here these days?
As a Trump supporter this post directly attacks me.
Edit: The people that took this post seriously should touch some grass
Sadly, sarcasm doesnβt translate well in text - and Trump voters have been guilty of saying the most unhinged shit out loud.
A bad joke may just be a joke, but it's also just bad.
Don't back or defend rapists/pedophiles/felons, maybe then you won't feel personally attacked.
Trump is a 34x convicted felon (for fraud no less), convicted rapist, accused by dozens of women of sexual assault, who raped his previous wife, hung out with pedophile Epstein (why aren't the Epstein files released? What is Bondi hiding?) regularly on the Lolita Express, talks about wanting to fuck his daughter, selling Trump meme coins, peddling products out of the Oval Office, Tesla commercials on the White House lawn, selling "gold card" citizenships for $50k (you can come to America as an immigrant, as long as you have/bring money), dodged the draft yet talks trash about uniformed services and veterans, defends the nazi hate group the proud boys, calls voters "stupid", threatening to take away citizenships of anyone he doesn't like or criticizes the government (literally what the nazis did, revoke the citizenship of Germans who opposed them)β¦ I could go on, but it's wasted energy.
When you hang out with turds, you tend to smell like shit.
When you realise there's a list that names every sex offender in the USA and they can't legally bear arms. :)
Edit: People chill, I am sarcastic. Violence breeds violence, everyone knows that. If you treat criminals like they do in the USA, you can kiss the idea of rehabilitation goodbye. Not only that, but it also is just purile.
Socially acceptable, free and unlimited violence, this is the main reason behind the fascination for pedos. Anyone who balks at the idea of this violence is made complicit and an enabler. Eventually this congeals into a powerful hate mob, a mod of selfrighteous violence and justice, priming itself for violence until one of its member finally does it, shows up at a pizzeria and shoots up the place. They were going to be an hero, their life was finally going to make sense. They would finally have the power to make things right with the world but as we all know, the billionaire elite learned from the takedown of the church in the 80s and they had already filled the basement with concrete before he got there. Who even is the enemy anymore? It's billionaires! Shoot down their planes with open source anti air missiles!!
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