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[–] 1 point 1 year ago

Why does this only have 4 pixels?

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  • [–] 97 points 1 year ago (17 children)

    No one's going to argue that there aren't going to be edge cases that are hard to criticize, but in general, supporting any kind of systemic vigilante justice always leads incredibly quickly to innocent people getting lynched and cycles of reciprocal violence.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (14 children)

    I heckin' love the state's monopoly on violence!

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago* (9 children)

    The state always maintains a monopoly on violence. Otherwise you'd have a terrorist show up and the state would be unable to stop them, invalidating one of the core purposes of the state which is to provide security.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Well in a democracy, presumably the people who vote for politicians. In a democracy with a constitution that guarantees rights and security for non voters then them as well.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    That sounds nice but I don't think that's exactly the case in practice. There are often people who the state defends at the expense of others, who will never realistically receive any kind of justice from the state. I think things are also generally much better when these people are scared.

    I'm not trying to advocate for violence against anyone specific but sometimes I think it's best when people stand up for themselves (and the people) to show that they're willing to enact some kind of justice in a corrupt system. Thinking of vigilantes in general as immoral and barbaric while thinking "democracy" alone can help you just plays into the hands of those who wish to exploit you imo.

    Pic unrelated

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (1 child)

    Change generally comes about from mass mobilization. The French have gotten more concessions from the government and the rich through mass strikes than Americans ever have firing guns. I'm not naiive to the idea that it's all purely 100% peaceful protest, but one man with a gun rarely makes a significant change in the overall direction compared to hundreds of thousands of people turning out and threatening the economy.

    And that's the thing, the state generally maintains a monopoly on violence against small groups, it's near impossible for them to threaten violence against the population as a whole without creating a totalitarian state.

    At the end of the day guns aren't going to be what stops injustice, convincing enough people that the injustice is intolerable is.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    That's a quite reasonable response, but I will say that no actual revolution is likely gonna not involve a lot of violence. And yeah... protests are almost always gonna come at the very least with the threat of violence (for a reason). Plus, figures who do something violent that many see as ultimately justified can create awareness that could lead to more pressure on elites.

    I just don't think it's productive to condemn violence in general. I don't think violence not done by the state is in itself bad. Obviously a lone wolf going after random people they think deserve it isn't gonna directly enact real change, but going on about how peaceful you are seems counterproductive.

    Mass mobilisation and vigilante justice aren't mutually exclusive, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

    Pic unrelated

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  • [+] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    It requires not allowing the police to be outgunned by terrorists.

    Notice that it was after the LA bank robbery in the 90s, where two guys had tons of body armour and military rifles and outgunned the LAPD with their 6 shooters, that you suddenly saw every single police force across the country militarize and buy assault rifles, body armour, and APCs.

    Notice how in the UK their cops still patrol without guns.

    The state will always maintain a monopoly on the top level of violence. The idea of gun ownership to oppose the state is laughable. Notice: right now, no gun owners using them to oppose the state.

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  • [+] 0 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    A population where everyone is armed will also almost certainly have more firepower than a single terrorist group, too.

    It will also arm a whole shit of load terrorists, and people just having a bad day.

    The power dynamic is between the terrorists and anyone who would oppose them, not just the state.

    Yeah, and now you've raised the floor massively.

    when terrorists are basically always ultimately handled by a military force

    [citation needed]

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  • [+] 4 points 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    when in fact

    Citation needed

    is

    What does that even mean?

    cornerstone

    And here i was thinking this was the hard emotional and cultural labor of communication and coordination. Or maybe you're just a fascist?

    of

    Im glad we can find a little common ground. Fully endorse.

    civilized

    Absolutely not. Almost definitionally not. Unless youre a big anti-civ type with very gross definitions because it disgusts you

    society

    Kind of feels like its antithetical.

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  • [–] 86 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    When you want to do violence but it's generally frowned upon so you have to find a way to justify it

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  • [–] 52 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I've seen too much right-wing LGBT = pedophilia propaganda to jump at this one.

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    [+] 44 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 60 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    Not if they aren't acting on it, geez.

    If they woke up one day, realized to their horror they wanted to do some fucked up shit, and then just never did, that's crappy for them to have to deal with, and they're a champion for not making it anybody else's problem.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I always worry about this. Ive got some specific non-vanilla stuff that I didnt ask for and cant change. Lucky for me its nothing illegal or harmful, just non-standard.

    It could just as easily have been the bad.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    it can also easily become the bad, which is why "i have nothing to hide" morons need to be yanked by the ear

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Plus a lot of child molesters aren't even attracted to children, just the power and control it gives them.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Explain how that's makes it better.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Depends. Are we talking paedophile in the sense of Epstein or in the sense of LGBTQ person?

    Because right-wingers tend to call people who are not paedophiles paedophiles (very often just LGBTQ people), while protecting actual paedophiles like the republicans who are fighting to keep child marriage legal in the USA.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago

    Yeah, this kind of vague, "kill your local pedophile :)" sentiment is often just an anti-LGBT dogwhistle and makes me uneasy.

    If someone is going to post shit like this, and not actively tie it to the very obvious class dynamics of wealthy human traffickers, conservative Christians who promote child marriage, and politicians who protect them (without also being Anti-Semitic), then I just kind of assume it's a thinly veiled call for violence against queer people

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  • [–] 32 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Child sexual abuse triggers me into a violent rage as that is how I stopped my abusers as a child. No human scares me. Please do not harm children or the world will be full of violence. But also I agree with the comments saying pedophilia is a mental disorder. Also I do not condone violence against them. Please just stop abusing children.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    You're a pedo in treatment and never touched a child, good.

    You're a pedo who touched children, no more empathy, go straight to hell.

    You're a pedo and the president of the USA? Time to burn the system to the ground

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Only if the system concents and is 18+

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (3 children)

    Okay but is rape as a weapon of terror during wartime as practiced on children still pedophilia if the perpetrator literally just punched a clock and popped a viagra or even military issued strap-on? or would that just be normal war crimes? Serious legal qiestion.

    Also because i get the feeling a lot more people would be fans if it was.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    AFAIK, pedophilia refers specifically to the sexual attraction to children. When it's used as a weapon per your scenario, it's both a war crime and child rape.

    Like, if adult men as sexually assaulted as part of war crimes (and that's distressingly common), the perpetrators are likely not gay or bi-; they're 'just' committing atrocities.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This kind of rhetoric doesn't sit well with me. There is a difference between being a pedophile and abusing children. Pedophilia is a mental disorder and I can imagine that being attracted to children is pretty damn terrible if you're also trying to do the right thing. I think there needs to be acceptance towards pedophilia (not towards abusing children) so that the affected people feel safe in talking about their condition and get the appropriate help (so that they don't end up abusing children).

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago*

    That's a sane take on a emotional matter. I agree.

    We've had some success here with a program called "Don't become a perpetrator". Pedosexuals (which is the scientific term for people attracted to minors without acting upon their urges) could enter, as long as they hadn't committed any crime in regards to children or consuming illegal content. They could get psychological help as well as a chemical castration. Preventive approaches like this should be more common.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I support treating pedos and murdering offenders. I don't think you're guilty until having done anything.

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  • [–] 51 points 1 year ago (8 children)

    Treating non offenders? Good. Reveling in murder instead of simply putting people in prisons? Thanks no.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Yeah, that might be a bit extreme. I was mostly thinking about violent rapists when I said that. Sorry.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    You know, death sentence might not be that bad compared to what happens to pedos in prison.

    You could even call it merciful.

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  • [–] 21 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Beating up Trump, Musk and co? Hell yeah.

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  • What if we didn't need the nental gymnastic, they are roping democracy with memetic manipulation and demographic hacking. 1700s democracy didn't understand the power of computers, we badly need to bad the exploits and pulp the exploiters.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This is a very obvious trick from the right.

    "Kill all pedophiles!"

    Yeah most people will say pedophiles are really bad and nobody wants to defend them, so they'll either agree or let it slide. However, they're not anticipating the next part

    "All trans people are pedophiles!"

    "All gay people are pedophiles!"

    "All immigrants are pedophiles!"

    Once you define a group of people as being subhuman and unworthy of human rights, then there is a strong motivation to expand the definition of that group to include more people that a lot of people don't like and won't stick their neck out to support for fear of getting labeled as part of that group and oppressed like them. The circle then just keeps growing as the machine needs more people in the outgroup to oppose. If there is broad consensus that pedophiles (or people who commit any type of crime) are a danger so foul that the people who might commit said crime should be summarily executed to subjected to torture, then oppressed minority groups will just be identified with said crime. Think about how panic about urban theft and murder was used to advance policies that harm racial minorities in the late 20th century, and how panic about "bolshevism" was a major driving force of the Holocaust. Nothing good comes from this path.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 year ago

    Right, but at this point pedophilia does exist as an actual phenomenon, which the right uses to build a culture of fear and suspicion in which they can frame all their arguments credibly.

    Like people are actually worried about child abuse, for many good and bad reasons. So without addressing the fear and the underlying desire for just governance then no amount of political humanism will get through. People are, irrationally, more afraid of pedophiles than they are willing to criticize the cultural implications of the meanings of words.

    That's not your fault, you aren't creating or reproducing this phenomenon and I largely agree with you. I just think its time to start coming up with better criticisms than trying to poke logical holes. The right is fighting a war and we are having an intellectual debate. I'm a firm advocate for scientific intellectualism, while exploring even philosophical implications of your plans and actions. I think this is logically strong, but practically weak argument.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Pedophilia is a mental disorder Just saying mind your words

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  • [–] -3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Nah, pedophilia is a paraphilia. And if someone suffers from pedophilic disorder, it's kinda impossible for anyone other than healthcare to know that -- unless they've made some attempts to abuse someone.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    To be fair, paraphilias were listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders as disorders before that definition was moved in DSM-5 to paraphilic disorder to be distinct from paraphilia (no longer de facto a disorder).

    Anyway, pedophilia is a paraphilic disorder, which makes it a paraphilia and a mental disorder!

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    DSM

    Miss me with that American junk. But with the same logic, would you also say that gender incongruence is a mental disorder? It's in the same books, in similar sections. It's faux pas to call something a mental disorder without focusing on why it'd be that.

    The ICD (and I would hope the DSM) focuses mostly on the distress the patient gets from their condition. Someone's attraction to kids, without any actions, isn't enough to get diagnosed, as it's simply a paraphilia. If they're distressed by it, or act out, then it's a diagnostic criteria and something they'd be able to get treatment for.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago*

    Gender incongruence may be in the same book now, but being in the book does not necessarily mean it is a disorder (e.g. paraphilia). In fact, in DSM-5, gender incongruence (they call it gender dysphoria) was actually renamed from "gender identity disorder" to avoid the word "disorder".

    DSM-5 defines a paraphilic disorder as "a paraphilia that brings distress, or when satisfied, brings harm to self or others" (paraphrased). I think pedophilia fits that description, because "if satisfied", that's what we'd consider "bringing harm to others". Perhaps the ICD has a different definition?

    I mean, I didn't set the standards or write the books. All of these things have way too much complexity to properly categorize in the ever-shifting standards of society in different geographic and cultural regions, so of course different countries and different experts would treat these things differently. That also means what counts as a "mental disorder" can vary wildly from region to region. I daresay this is a universe where you and I are both right on the matter!

    I'm not sure about the criterion differences between the ICD and DSM-5, and I for sure do not know enough to be an authority on the matter.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    Well, I understand your emotions but there are more civilized ways to deal with this problem.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    The abuser has to pay lifelong alimony to the abused. If the accusation turns out to be false, however, the "abused" has to pay.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    This is right, but we have the law to not do it ourselves based on subjective judgement.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Well… while an objective law is important… Don’t get me wrong - if anyone would do anything to my girl I’d personally rip their reproductive organs out and force feed that to them

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  • [–] 10 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Depends.

    Pedophilia is likely an inherent sexual attraction, much like being straight, or LGBTQ+. It appears that the sexual attraction is not something that the person has control over. There's no good evidence that it can be changed. Some pedophiles are also sexually attracted to age-appropriate partners, some appear to be exclusively attracted to children. Moreover, it appears to split into nepophilia (infants, toddlers), pedophilia (pre-pubescent children older than toddlers), and ephebophilia (pubescent children and post-pubescent children younger than the legal age of consent).

    Epstein appears to have been attracted to post-pubescent girls younger below the age of consent, but he also seems to have had sexual relationships with adult women. E.g., he wasn't exclusively a pedophile.

    Child molestation is a completely different matter. Child molesters can be pedophiles, but they can also be opportunistic sexual predators. A significant amount of child molestation is also incest, e.g., a parent or close relative (almost always male) using a child for sexual gratification because they can (proximity, opportunity), rather than preferring children. Either way, child molesters that sexually abuse children are very high risk offenders; they are often very, very likely to commit the same crime repeatedly.

    So, I'd draw the line a line between someone that's sexually attracted to minors, and someone that acts. The child molester? Yeah, fuck 'em with a chainsaw. Pedophiles that haven't yet done anything (including grooming!)? No.

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    [–] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    What about capitalist, pedophile nazis?

    Thanks to the brave, strong internet tough guys at lemmy who totally aren't pathetic losers overcompensating for something, we have such brilliant hits as

    • nazi lives don't matter
    • save the world, punch a capitalist
    • this

    and who knows what else? Time to consolidate & merge all these expressions into one proud circlejerk & achieve great glory.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    Being a Nazi is a choice someone actively makes. I don't think it's the same with being a pedophile (not defending pedophiles or anything)

    I've heard people go with the thought that "they wish to cause harm to other individuals, so why should people not cause harm to them?" (For Nazis, obviously). Whether or not I totally agree with that sentiment..... I'm not sure.

    But comparing Nazis to pedophiles doesn't work.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

    What's with all the anti-republican propaganda on here these days?

    As a Trump supporter this post directly attacks me.

    Edit: The people that took this post seriously should touch some grass

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago* (5 children)
  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    A bad joke may just be a joke, but it's also just bad.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    Don't back or defend rapists/pedophiles/felons, maybe then you won't feel personally attacked.

    Trump is a 34x convicted felon (for fraud no less), convicted rapist, accused by dozens of women of sexual assault, who raped his previous wife, hung out with pedophile Epstein (why aren't the Epstein files released? What is Bondi hiding?) regularly on the Lolita Express, talks about wanting to fuck his daughter, selling Trump meme coins, peddling products out of the Oval Office, Tesla commercials on the White House lawn, selling "gold card" citizenships for $50k (you can come to America as an immigrant, as long as you have/bring money), dodged the draft yet talks trash about uniformed services and veterans, defends the nazi hate group the proud boys, calls voters "stupid", threatening to take away citizenships of anyone he doesn't like or criticizes the government (literally what the nazis did, revoke the citizenship of Germans who opposed them)… I could go on, but it's wasted energy.

    When you hang out with turds, you tend to smell like shit.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Pedophiles did nothing wrong

    Pedo criminals did

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  • [–] -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    When you realise there's a list that names every sex offender in the USA and they can't legally bear arms. :)

    Edit: People chill, I am sarcastic. Violence breeds violence, everyone knows that. If you treat criminals like they do in the USA, you can kiss the idea of rehabilitation goodbye. Not only that, but it also is just purile.

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  • Socially acceptable, free and unlimited violence, this is the main reason behind the fascination for pedos. Anyone who balks at the idea of this violence is made complicit and an enabler. Eventually this congeals into a powerful hate mob, a mod of selfrighteous violence and justice, priming itself for violence until one of its member finally does it, shows up at a pizzeria and shoots up the place. They were going to be an hero, their life was finally going to make sense. They would finally have the power to make things right with the world but as we all know, the billionaire elite learned from the takedown of the church in the 80s and they had already filled the basement with concrete before he got there. Who even is the enemy anymore? It's billionaires! Shoot down their planes with open source anti air missiles!!

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