[tl;dr: Psychiatrist refuses to treat or diagnosis ADHD without a separate evaluation to differentiate from depression.]

Just decided to pop into my old psychiatrists' office to see if I could get ADHD meds ahead of my neuropsych eval a little later down the road (which will also evaluate for autism, but there's no meds for that so I don't care if my psychiatrist thinks I have it or not).

I talked to an intern, who was very nice, and then we connected to the psychiatrist that had treated me through my bipolar and depression.

She told me she couldn't treat me for ADHD because my PHQ-9 score, an inventory to measure depression, was too high and she wanted to wait for a neuropsych evaluation before she prescribed medicine for ADHD. She also was really pushy about getting me into therapy, which I had started coincidentally a few weeks ago.

My thoughts on that:

  1. This is the trap: because you are neurodivergent, you fail at work, you fail at society, and you fail at your own self-designed goals. The natural result is that you get depressed. You see the professionals that are supposed to help you, but they are always treating you for depression. By treating you for depression, which is a perfefectly natural response to your situation as a neurodivergent individual living in a neurotypical world, you learn that you are the problem. And since, for some reason, you keep getting fired, people keep not being your friend, and you keep having unfinished projects scattered throughout your house, you never stopped being depressed. And because you never stop being depressed, even though the entire medical system is trying to help you be not depressesd with therapy and medicine, you eventually conclude that you are irretrievably broken. And the results: you are in ineffective treatment for depression for years, decades, or your entire life and you are miserable and feel terrible about yourself the entire time.

  2. How is a trained and paid professional looking at a single number (PHQ-9) than reflects depressive symptoms without reference to depressive situations and punting on something so basic as distinguishing between depression and ADHD, which can cause depression and is in the DSM? Isn't doing a differential diagnosis in her wheelhouse? Is she stupid? [rhetorical]

  3. Why does she think there is some objective way to distinguish between depression and ADHD? I could go to 10 different psychologists and there is a 0% all of them would agree. So if it's essentially a crap shoot, why is she deferring to someone else, unless she's obviously incompetent or, more likely, a total coward that doesn't want accountability.

  4. Why does she think therapy is going to help? I've been in therapy on and off the 30 years and I'm in exactly the same place as I was when I started. I know it does not work, at least not if the focus is on depression. It's like I'm saying, "I want do try something different because what I've been trying for 30 years and she's yelling no! keep doing the same thing!

Seriously. If anyone has any suggestions on how to navigate this. I'm borderline thinking I need to mask my depressive symptoms if psychiatry is going to be so fucking ignorant about the relationship between situation and mood.

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[–] [S] 11 points 1 day ago*

Separate issue: I have a really reactive emotionality around work. I think it's rooted in all the rejection and failure, but it's also just as easily diagnosed as anxiety. But my pattern is to work low-level jobs for several years and then completely burning out and being unemployed for a year or two before trying again: my life set to "rinse and repeat."

So I really have to figure out how to get help as a neurodivergent person if I'm going to get this lens a real shot (both for medication and therapy), but I'm worried I'm just going to keep getting sucked in neurotypical mood disorders as an explanation which I already know is untreatable in my case.

[This person also recommended a job search service which I'd used for years and they were absolutely useless outside of helping apply for jobs. Any kind of self-exploration and values-clarification and job-evaluation? Absolutely nil. They just had me apply for jobs all the time. For years. They do not give a fuck.]

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  • [–] 7 points 20 hours ago (1 child)

    From what I have heard, it is a well known cycle. Inattentiveness causes a patient to have productivity issues which leads to depression. The depression caused anxiety when asked to perform. The anxiety is distracting and leads to productivity issues. It is a self perpetuating spiral.

    From what I understand, the only way to find the root cause is to figure out what started first and/or trying to treat one after another until you find which one the patient responds best to. In some countries, stimulants (to treat ADHD) are more controlled than antidepressants, so it is possible that your doctor first needs to make sure that an antidepressant will not help you before they can justify trying a stimulant.

    Like you, I am caught up in the cycle. After years of my doctors trying treatments, we found a solution that works for me: a stimulant that makes my inattention a bit more manageable and therapy to slowly break the cycle.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 16 hours ago

    Thanks for confirming my sanity.

    In my case, there's no need to do anti-depressants even if there were a requirement, which I don't there is, because I suffered from depression most of my adult life was ultimately referred for ECT exactly because the medicines were ineffective.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    Because most people are overworked and incompetent. In short, yes, they are stupid.

    Most of the time, they're not doing it out of malice.

    When you're dealing with stupid people, you can't expect them to magically be non-stupid. You then have to be smart yourself.

    How far away is the neuropsych evaluation?

    Which country is this?

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 15 hours ago

    US. Neurospych consult is this week, and then the actual eval a few weeks out from that.

    In the meantime, I do need a prescriber, so I have something scheduled for that, too, beforehand, because I like to think that psychiatrists should be competent to diagnose common issues.

    As for people being stupid, yes, they certainly can be, but they're the gatekeepers.

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  • [–] 2 points 22 hours ago (2 children)

    I don't know any good suggestions for you. I got lucky and found out I have undiagnosed, heavily masked AuDHD only 3 years into unsuccessful treatment of depression and cPTSD. Switched a lot of psychiatrists and psychotherapists in the meantime, until I stumbled on an AuDHD psychiatrist, who diagnosed me, and refered to a neurodivergent therapist.

    But I agree with you totally this medical system is a mess, most mental health professionals have zero clue what they are doing. Neurodivergence awareness is in the negatives.

    I was treated for cPTSD and negative beliefs about myself like incompetence or or unlovability or hiding emotions for so long, without me or therapist understanding true cause or treating it.

    Psychiatrists also had really big aversion towards diagnosing me with more than one illness. Although comorbidity is like very common. Everyone just slapped "depression" and prescribed SSRIs, because that's simplest, meanwhile the full, complex picture of my problems is cPTSD/borderline PD, OCD, AuDHD, depression, and anxiety.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 16 hours ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I'd like to have Autism and ADHD if it makes sense, but thats just for a more thorough neuropsych eval. If I just need meds, it's fine that I just have ADHD. And I do just need meds, and I do have an appointment scheduled with someone who treats depression and ADHD so hopefully she knows the difference....

    What kind of talk therapy did you do? Any specific modality? Or just an informal kind of self-investigation?

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  • CBT. But I never really thought about it, I just went to whatever therapist my psychiatrist recommended, and she happened to be CBT-qualified.

    I did schema therapy for cPTSD previously, but unfortunately it made my mental health worse, because therapist wasn't neurodivergence-aware, and pushed me to do stuff that caused me autistic shutdowns (like socializing or exercising. We didn't know those were autistic shutdowns) until those accumulated into autistic burnout with executive dysfunction.

    By the way, autistic and ADHD burnouts look very similar to depression, but are treated very differently, and unfortunately most psychs/therapists don't know that, and are unsuccessfully keep treating the wrong thing.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 child)

    What country are you in, can you see a different psychiatrist, maybe get a referal to one from your therapist? Ive experienced this before from certain psychiatrists that are leery of writing scripts for stimulants (or even non stimulants for some reason). Seeing a different one had been my way around it.

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