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[–] 125 points 4 days ago

One single dude seriously spent half a billion on this midterm. He expects a return on that investment... Don't oblige him.

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  • [–] 225 points 4 days ago* (53 children)

    Reposting my own comment here:

    I live somewhere with 2 Republicans on the ballot for one seat with no write in line.

    I could have not voted at all on that item, but that wouldn't have helped anybody but the worst of the two candidates.

    I poured through more interviews and candidate statements from these two trashy people than any other candidate I voted for, just to find the one that was the least evil.

    I still hate them both, but I voted for one to try and stem the bleeding because that's how our Democracy works.

    And adding a quote from Rage Against the Machine's Tom Morello:

    But in any and every contested race, as my mom Mary Morello always said, we have to fight the fascist every which way we can, recognizing that even if there's but an inch of difference between two candidates, there are a lot of vulnerable people who could be greatly harmed in that inch.

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  • [–] 73 points 4 days ago

    Remider that voting in a Democracy is the bare minimum.

    Everday citizens can protest, attend town halls, call their elected officials (or their opponents) and make their views heard. You can donate money, and if you can't donate money, you can donate time, and if you can't donate time, you can bring attention to issues that you want to change in your everyday life.

    Voting is the most important thing you can do right now, but don't forget the other stuff. Behind every politician is a team, behind that team are supporters, and behind the supporters are voters. You get to choose your level of engagement.

    No shame on people that only vote. That's better than 4 out 5 other Americans this year.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Presumably an unopposed seat on a ballot proves some generalized point about elections or America or something.

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  • [–] 29 points 4 days ago

    It's California. There's an open primary, I happen to live in one of the few red parts and for one spot the top two vote getters in the primary were Republican.

    They didn't run unopposed, the opposition just all failed to get a consensus. CA's system isn't perfect, but realistically a Democrat doesn't have a chance in this particular district, maybe the less evil Republican has a shot though.

    US elections involve some compromise. Vote for your ideal candidate in the primary, but after that there's generally only 2 people who have any shot at a given seat, and throwing away your vote in protest helps the worst candidates succeed. That's why elections spend so much money on attack ads - they want you feeling discouraged.

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  • [+] -13 points 4 days ago (25 children)

    And I keep saying that if stemming the bleeding is the best we can hope for, then that's how democracy fails. Vote for the slightly-better candidate, by all means, that's the best move in the here-and-now. But, unless we change the rules, it's gonna be the same best move next time, too, and the patient only has so much blood.

    Morello makes a very Utilitarian argument. The trouble is that it works equally well when your choice is between Hitler, who wants to murder 5,000,000 people, and Hitler Lite, who wants to murder 4,999,995 people. It makes all the difference for those 5 people, and voting for Hitler Lite is the best move.

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  • [–] [S] 22 points 4 days ago (6 children)
  • [–] 11 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    This cartoon symbolizes one election cycle. We can argue about how many people should be depicted on the siding, but since there are 16 people on the main line, the Utilitarian argument works even if there are up to 15. And that's what's been happening: Labor got tied to the tracks in the '70s with the election of Jimmy Carter. Poor people joined them with the election of Bill Clinton. Palestine as a whole got tied to the tracks next to them in 2024. And now, they're flirting with adding trans people to the line-up. And, no, that does not obviate the fact that the Republicans are indeed worse.

    But that's beside my point. This cartoon doesn't depict the erosion of democracy and the crumbling of civil institutions. That can only go on for so long before the whole system fails.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago* (1 child)

    My math is a little off, but can you remind me how many people died after 2018, again?

    I recall it was more than one. COVID alone, I think it was somewhere north of a million, in fact.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 days ago* (1 child)

    Fuck the switch, rip up the rails.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago*

    Great, when are you going to start?

    I bet you won't do shit. You just want Republicans to win so you can feel better about your own country.

    But even if fascism hell breaks loose in the US, it still wouldn't come close to the shithole that is Russia. The KGB are just Nazis with a winter coat on.

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  • [–] 9 points 4 days ago (16 children)

    Tankies are bad people. Just to let you know

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  • [–] -2 points 4 days ago (15 children)

    That's great, but my comment has nothing whatsoever to do with tankies.

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  • [–] 11 points 4 days ago (12 children)

    I don't see a meaningful difference between accelerationist types

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  • [–] 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (11 children)
  • [–] 13 points 4 days ago (10 children)

    Tankies. College kidz on drugs. Russian propaganda beneficiaries. Billionaire bots. Liberal-haters.

    They put on quite a show here and in a few other places near election times. Afterwards they tend to fizzle out. Or stick to one or two comms about gaming.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 days ago (7 children)

    First, this user tells me that tankies are bad. Tankies think that the system is bad, and that its collapse is an unqualified good.

    Then, they switched to accelerationists. Accelerationists want the system to collapse hard and fast, so that people don't acclimate to poorer conditions, and get motivated to fix the system.

    Meanwhile, I'm warning that the system is going to collapse, and we need to fix it ASAP.

    Hence, my question. What the heck is they on about, now?

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  • [–] 2 points 4 days ago (6 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 days ago (5 children)

    I prefer, "inconveniently correct." I've learned from long experience on the Internet that if one is wrong, somebody will jump in and tell one all the ways. But if one is correct in an uncomfortable way, well, it short-circuits people's brains, and they just start talking nonsense and throwing insults.

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  • [–] 4 points 4 days ago (4 children)

    Lol "if someone doesn't waste their time on me, it proves I'm right"

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  • [–] -1 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    Yeah, basically. People can't resist pointing it when you're wrong. When you're right, they post snarky deflections.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago* (2 children)

    You've been disqualified from anything but ire from me for a while.

    Hilarious you agreed with that though

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  • [+] -12 points 4 days ago (17 children)

    If this is your situation and you can't even vote for the lesser of two evils or tactfully, you can spoil your ballot. It shows that you are not represented by the options given but also still believe in the need for representation and the democratic system. I drew a box that said none of the above.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 days ago (15 children)

    And your vote got tossed in the box after being electronically tabulated like everyone else’s where no human ever even saw it. That guy’s actually accomplished something.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 days ago (14 children)

    And what did clambake's vote accomplish, that tazeycrazy's didnt?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (11 children)

    One more vote for the least bad option. One less vote for the worse option. The other idiots ballot was spoiled and so contributes to whoever wins. Our system sucks but it isn't that complicated. Too complicated for tankies and both sidesers though.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 days ago* (10 children)

    And what did that accomplish? From what I see: absolutely nothing.

    You know what contributes more to the Republicans winning? The Democrats refusing to do what their voters want, on easy to win topics, and the Democrat voters pretending that they are worth supporting.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago* (5 children)

    The democratics are doing what their voters want insofar as they can without having any real power the last decade. What you're actually wondering if why the democratic party doesn't cater to the progressives and general public that don't vote in primaries or generals for democratics. But why would the democratic party cater to non-voters? They don't vote. May as well be republicans. You fix that by running progressives and voting in the democratic primaries. It's a pretty simple system. Too complicated for both sidesers though apparently.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 days ago (4 children)

    The democratics are doing what their voters want insofar as they can without having any real power the last decade.

    Well, no. None of that is true actually. They had plenty of power under Biden and Obama, but chose to screw over their voters instead of helping them out.

    What you’re actually wondering if why the democratic party doesn’t cater to the progressives and general public that don’t vote in primaries or generals for democratics. But why would the democratic party cater to non-voters? They don’t vote.

    No, I'm not wondering that at all. They don't cater to progressives and the general public, because their rich doners tell them not to. They also know that those people won't vote for someone who fights against them. To get more voters they could run popular policies that people like, and then actually deliver on them. Hell, there was a whole movement warning Harris that she was going to lose votes if she kept running unpopular positions, and she told them to sit down, and shut up. So she lost votes.

    If they delivered for the people, then the people would vote for them. You have your cause and effect backwards.

    May as well be republicans.

    So you think people who don't want the US to back genocide, and want policies that help the workers are just like Republicans? Because that doesn't make any sense.

    You fix that by running progressives and voting in the democratic primaries. It’s a pretty simple system. Too complicated for both sidesers though apparently.

    And what have the progressives accomplished? They've had power for a long time, and spent it all pretending that the Democratic leadership weren't horrible monsters.

    I want a party that fights for the people, not to keep the monsters in charge.

    It’s a pretty simple system. Too complicated for both sidesers though apparently.

    And yet you seem the be the one that doens't know how it works. 🙄

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  • [–] 0 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Ok so you're clearly in bad faith because your first statement is demonstrably false. You're working for MAGA. That or you're actually stupid enough to just blatantly declare that you have no actual understanding of the structure and function of the federal government, but most likely you're another rusbot trying to discourage midterm turnout.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (3 children)

    How does your solution of letting republicans win benefit the people? Explain in detail with examples please.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    I didn't let the Republicans win, the Democrats did. They had the chance to run on popular policies that helped out the voters, but instead chose to support the Republicans, and help build out fascism.

    Here's a great example: Seattle raised their mimimum wage, made the rich pay more taxes, and helped Amazon workers fight back against Amazon, becuase we elected a Socialist who faught against the Democrats.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Do you prefer the smell of shit or rotten food? Both are bad, yet you still probably prefer one over the other. But if you turn up your nose when presented with the choice then you don’t get to complain about intestinal parasites or half-digested corn when someone plops a big pile o’ shit on your plate.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

    Do you not understand that “none of the above” isn’t runnng? Someone will get elected regardless of your forfeit to whichever side wins- and you just surrendered your vote to them.

    Congrats on the hard work it must have been to intentionally still not learn how shit works this entire time. It must have been exhausting.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 days ago

    The meme also assumes billionares are spending all that money on one side. They spend it on both (bankman-fried who publicly donated to dems and secretley donated to republicans so he could guide regulations, have the ear of government, maybe even get an edge on people.) So its not like the parties truly are that different.

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  • [–] -4 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Didn’t Morello advocate for non-voting?

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  • [–] 18 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

    Yes and no, mostly no, but it's open to interpretation.

    https://stereogum.com/2513749/tom-morello-clarifies-he-does-vote-just-not-for-corporate-democrats/news

    Short version, he bragged about not voting for Harris, with the nuance (which is so easily lost in today's society) that she was all but guaranteed to win California, so his protest vote did not, on it's own, risk contributing to Donald Trump's second term.

    The flip side of that nuance is that his rhetoric about the subject, without the additional context, may discourage voting in swing states, which could help Trump/Republicans in a much more significant way than just not voting for Harris in California.

    His follow-up statements clarified his stance, including the quote I provided.

    His behavior overall was messy, but that quote holds up nicely on its own.

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  • [–] 46 points 4 days ago (4 children)

    Elon Musk poured an eye-watering amount of money for the Republicans.

    More money than Soros ever did which was the Republican boogeyman.

    You have to counter that while you have the chance.

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  • [–] 14 points 4 days ago (3 children)

    Here in Australia one of our wealthiest people, Gina Rinehart, is a very vocal supporter of a party, One Nation, who's base is predominantly disenfranchised disadvantaged Aussie battlers.

    Its nonsensical to me that even an idiot could think that a billionaires interests might align with their own.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago (1 child)

    Yeah its a global phenomenon. Wheee

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago

    We're not as different as we think we are.

    Super depressing to see the shit sandwich vs giant douche formula working so well in other countries as well tthough.

    Fortunately I don't live forever, and I get to leave you all to your reindeer games eventually.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 days ago

    I remember her, she would keep talking about how people in Africa and China would work for so much cheaper and that Australians or whatever should get used to it.

    I think I remember her father hated her when he almost passed away.

    It's crazy. There's a lot of people that like to cut off their noses to spite their face.

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  • [–] 31 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    We must defeat fascism by any means necessary.

    Even if it means voting.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

    We did, in 2020. What is different now?

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago

    2018 election set up the 2020 success. I think Trump could have pulled shenanigans to defeat his loss if he'd had Senate control of Congress at the time. This vote probably just defeated his hopes at a third term.

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  • [–] 20 points 4 days ago

    Trying to discourage you from voting also counts as "influencing the outcome"

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  • [–] 41 points 4 days ago (30 children)

    Sometimes I think breaking the two party system is the single most necessary thing for the USA. All this back and forth and debate about voting vs not voting and lesser evilism is ridiculous.

    How the fuck did it ever get to a situation where you have two parties who both oppose electoral reform but you're afraid to not vote for one of them in case the worse one wins?

    This is democracy theater.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    The vote allocation system was very purposefully mathematically designed for exactly this outcome.

    More than once I've read in The Guardian some columnist or other justifying Britains voting system (also First Past The Post, like the US), which for example will give absolute parliamentary majorities on a mere 34% of the vote, as being a good thing because it brings "stability".

    You know what's "stable" - swamps.

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  • [–] 21 points 4 days ago (15 children)

    Yeah it's depressing how few seem to get that the billions being dumped into politics aren't to make one party or the other win, it's to make it so that there will always be only two parties, both of whom are friendly to billionaires.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 days ago (6 children)

    Let's all just forget how many of these ghouls make sizeable contributions to both parties.

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  • [–] -5 points 3 days ago (5 children)

    Hello two day old both sides account!

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (3 children)

    Well met, the-answer-is-thought-terminating-cliche-what-was-the-question.

    I hope you're having a lovely day.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    Thankfully your lot doesn't seem too successful thus far.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 days ago (3 children)

    Only one party has members that are not friendly to billionaires.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 days ago (2 children)

    Members maybe. Actual Representatives? One, who they keep around to be their social media star to play to the crowd, while the actual party policy is written and enacted by the usual group of old white neoliberals.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 days ago

    One party has a (growing) presence of members who openly speak out against the wealthy and in favor of things like electoral reform and Supreme Court reform and social program expansion.

    The other party has zero members who do so.

    Simple fact.

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  • [–] -3 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    No it's not. The American greens get tons of money from right wing billionaires, because they want to exploit the spoiler effect. They don't need to spend money maintaining the two party system, the spoiler effect does it for them.

    America needs voting reform, a switch to instant runoff.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago (2 children)

    Astonishing to see how motivated people seem to be to push this conspiracy theory FUD, when the Greens are the only party to refuse corporate donors as a matter of principle.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 days ago (1 child)

    Lol. Enter magician Jill Stein stage right. She magically appears right before an election, siphons votes, then magically disappears again after the election.

    And in 2024 she managed to accumulate a massive 0.5% of the total votes cast. A true contender for the 15 seconds she was around.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago

    She magically appears right before an election, siphons votes, then magically disappears again after the election

    Why can't the "smartest people in the room" change the voting system to remove or lessen the spoiler effect? You say it happens every election, so why dont democrats get ahead of the "problem" by making these crucial electoral reforms?

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  • [–] 16 points 4 days ago (5 children)

    It's called the spoiler effect and it's an issue of the voting system of "First Past the Post".

    Imagine you have 4 parties, A,B, C and D. Let's say A, B, and C largely align on issues and D is the outlier. While 70% of the population wants either A,B, or C, if the vote gets split evenly then we see D wins despite on wining 30% of votes.

    C says "Not cool man. I'm giving up and telling all my voters to vote for B". Now you have a three party system.

    D isn't dumb and so he throws propaganda and budget to draw voters to A despite not agreeing with their policies at all. They are incentivized to split the vote because of how the system is designed. Voters get split between A and B again making 33% the victory threshold. D ekes out another win despite not reaching a majority. A and B decide to join forces to never let D win again and boom two party system.

    Numbers are hyperbolic for demonstration but this is how it works. It's why sometimes third party campaigns get backed by the political parties least in alignment with them.

    You will never solve the two party system without changing voting to one that negates the spoiler effect.

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  • [–] 15 points 4 days ago (4 children)

    You will never solve the two party system without changing voting to one that negates the spoiler effect.

    And you will never change voting to one that negates the spoiler effect while the two party system is in effect, because the two parties with power both benefit from it being the way it is.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 days ago (2 children)

    "Never" is a long time. If this were just a game theory world, then yes. If people always did the optimal move, then a multi-party system would eventually become a two-party system, and once it became a two party system, there would be no way to change it because every change is non-optimal.

    People sometimes don't behave rationally. In Canada in the 1990s the Progressive Conservative party had a majority government and seemed unstoppable. But, the leader Brian Mulroney became incredibly unpopular. At the end of his time in office, he was so unpopular that everybody knew that his party was going to be destroyed in the next election. But, at that point Canada was effectively a 2-party country, Liberals and Progressive Conservatives. Even though the Liberals were going to take power, it was just a matter of time before it swung back to the Progressive Conservatives. So, the smart move for the PC party would have been to just bide their time.

    Instead, the party split in two. Half stayed PC, the other half joined a new party called Reform. But, because of first-past-the-post voting, the conservative votes were split, half went to the Reform party candidate, half went to the PC candidate. As a result, the PC party was destroyed in the election. They went from 169 seats to Liberals' 83 to only having 2 seats. They were the 5th biggest party, after the Bloc Quebecois, Reform, and NDP. They nearly lost official party status.

    These days there is no PC party anymore, The split party eventually reformed and dropped the "Progressive", now they're just the Conservative party. And, they're again part of the duopoly. Whenever the Liberals lose, the Conservatives win, and vice versa. But, for a while things changed because humans are not always rational.

    It's theoretically possible for humans to be irrational in a good way too. A well meaning and honest party could gain power and then pass legislation that hurt itself and helped democracy, like getting rid of first past the post. But, to do that, they'd need to feel massive pressure from voters. Even if the politicians want to do it, they need to show that the people are forcing their hand.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 days ago*

    Yep, but this must be accomplished mainly outside of current elections - making sure that candidates that align with this view are even available hangs on a lot more than a single date to vote. Telling people to just not care because it all sucks is the last stage in a long process where viable candidates did not get enough support the rest of the time.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 days ago

    The intelligent thing to do is to vote for the major party that is objectively better than the other major party, while volunteering to help any 3rd parties you have interest in so they slowly become more viable. If everyone did this, we'd be in better shape in the short run by electing the non-FelonRapistPedoTraitor party while making things better in the long run by elevating at least one 3rd party.

    Cuz right now no 3rd party is even really trying to be viable. So it just isn't an option. People have to help them for that to happen.

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  • [–] -5 points 3 days ago (3 children)

    Only one of those parties runs candidates that have election reform on their platform. The parties aren't the same.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 days ago* (1 child)

    How we vote is handled at the state level. Can you explain why most blue states still use First-past-the-post voting? Republicans arent in the way in these state governments.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago

    Because people that want election reform don't vote in primaries for candidates running on election reform. It isn't complicated. You could also engage with the system and change it like Maine did. But that would require voting again, so probably a non-starter.

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