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[–] 48 points 1 year ago* (16 children)

So this article went over everyone's head??? The surveillance apparatus is the that they were able to be identified immediately. You guys prove the authors point. It's so normalized it doesn't seem out of place. Not only that they were blasted around the world just as fast.

The post we're in right now showing their names and faces. The comment section we're in. This is part of the mass surveillance machine.

The witch hunt is self evident but I suppose I need to be blunt. It's because they're deemed worthy of your scorn. So you accept the dystopian surveillance state because in this instance it has served your purpose.

Crazy times.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    The main problem I see here is that people still don't seem to understand what "public" means.

    That applies to doing shit in public, but also posting shit publically.

    If you do something in the open, expect that people will see it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    See it, sure. But as a society we used to have an expectation of anonymity, for better or worse.

    If there was a video of you dancing funny in public, maybe your friends would recognize you, but the whole world wouldn't know your identity and remember it forever.

    Shit, my workplace couldn't even identify the people who walked in the front door and stole stuff and walked out. The police could see their faces clearly in the security footage, but they weren't from around here and no one knew who they were.

    Society used to be like that.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    See it, sure. But as a society we used to have an expectation of anonymity, for better or worse.

    That's the case if you are some unimportant rando, yes.

    But these two people we are talking about are very public figures due to their jobs, and they are compensated very well for this. As a public figure you can't have the expectation of anonymity. That just comes with the territory.

    Every time JK Rowling lets out an anti-trans fart, the whole internet is up in arms. When my transphobe uncle does the same, nobody cares. Because one of them is a public figure and the other one is not.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    If you would read the article, you would understand the point you're missing.

    No one recognized them because they were public figures. In this case it's not clear how they were recognized, but in the general sense, it is clear that social media will gleefully dox randos using technology like facial recognition. Attractive security guards, people dancing, etc. Just yesterday, someone took a picture of me at the pool just for walking with messy hair.

    The point the article is making is that anybody can be made a public figure now, because of technology.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    I have read the article, and I got your point before, and I still think that it's totally moot and besides the point.

    If they had been two total randos, say Max the car repair man cheating with Mandy the receptionist, then nobody would have even tried to recognize them. Not with social media, not with facial recognition not with anything else.

    And even if Peter, the coworker of Max and Mandy would have recognized them, he'd maybe have told their partners, or he might have made fun of them at work, but that's it. Because these people don't matter.

    To get back to your example: Somebody took a picture of you. Ok. Now what? Did that picture go viral on social media? Did that picture make it into international news? No. Because you don't matter.

    And you said it yourself:

    Shit, my workplace couldn't even identify the people who walked in the front door and stole stuff and walked out. The police could see their faces clearly in the security footage, but they weren't from around here and no one knew who they were.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    So they were identified by a government agency or an entity acting within that scope?

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    dystopian surveillance state

    There I fixed it.

    Go to reddit and stay there if you want to debase yourself with that obtuse nonsense. Otherwise grow up.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    I don't really want to be filmed everywhere, especially when it's later on broadcasted to the entire world. I want to be able to do stupid stuff without other people knowing.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    This type of camera use at concerts or stadiums is decades. Although I agree with you, the biggest concern are things like Nest cameras that film random people walking on the street. Or general government surveillance.

    In the UK, some guy got arrested because he refused to show his face on a street surveillance camera on principle.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 year ago

    The schismogenesis in the comments and downvotes here is wild: “dystopia is good when it hurts scumbags”—um, no, both can be bad??

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    No it isn't. Plenty of other things are, but not that one.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah I agree.

    Had this couple just not freaked out, it wouldn’t have gotten as much traction. Perhaps even the person who took the video and posted it may not have if it was just a “normal” reaction.

    I mean, the guy is a piece of shit. And she is too if she’s knowingly having a relationship with a married person, presumably without the consent of his wife who she probably knows.

    But this particular thing I don’t think is emblematic of anything other than the FO after the FA.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (3 children)

    So this is what all this "kiss cam at Coldplay concert" is about. Pretty dull stuff.

    One thing to note with facial recognition and security cameras is that you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

    Another thing is that there are legitimate uses for extensive surveillance (catching spies, assasins and collaborators when your country is being invaded). While this is a somewhat extreme example, there are legitimate use cases outside of war time too.

    It's up to us as voters to elect governments that do not abuse surveillance technology.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    It’s up to us as voters to elect governments that do not abuse surveillance technology.

    Surveillance technology is only feedback.

    There's also the regulator which uses that feedback. It's means of regulation are bots, properly formed news, law policies, and raw action. Probably even targeted murders.

    That system together affects whom "we as voters" elect. Because we are too many to organize, while for regulation our numbers and diversity are actually favorable, to treat us all as one object.

    Which means that electoral democracy is dead. Direct democracy with nationwide mandatory participation and rotational sortitioned filling of state roles requiring a working individual (like conscription where you can't refuse or it's a process requiring some proof of good reasons) may work.

    To increase as much as possible the technical complexity of influencing a society like an object.

    One can also (with reservations and limitations and very careful design) look at the Soviet system (one that really functioned in early 20s and late 80s).

    The key is nationwide participation. Electing someone else to represent you is just too risky with such crowd control means as available today.

    While the technology can be made public-controlled in the widest sense, so that not only a certain JD Vance could see where you are at every moment, but that you could see where he is as well. All state surveillance should be public. And there should be no state secrets.

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  • [+] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago

    Switzerland is small. Adapting its system for a bigger nation blindly might result in something like Turkey.

    But I've just refreshed my idea of its system and it's similar to what I'm describing, yes.

    The main difference is actually that Soviet system had a few levels of councils, the lower level electing the next, while in Swiss system there are three levels all elected directly.

    We know for sure that Stalin abused that property to gain power. And one can argue that Yeltsin did the same before dismantling it.

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  • Lmfao no it’s not. It’s emblematic of CEOs being a category of people that correlate strongly with NPD and psycho/sociopathy. And it’s also emblematic of having a 0/10 poker face. It wouldn’t have gone viral if he had just stopped grabbing her tit (because on the Jumbotron) and doing a shy little chuckle together and keeping their shit together.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago*

    lol they not like us

    He got caught dipping his pen in company ink, I've seen it happen to staff lower on the totem pole.

    Its exactly what needed to happen. Its company policy fairly enforced, because it never is for the C suite.

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  • 13 comments in c/technology@beehaw.org view that post
    [–] 45 points 1 year ago* (9 children)

    It was on the jumbotron - surely one or two of the thousands of people at the show knew who it was. And then we'd have people watching it remotely, or the show appearing on video services, etc.

    Assuming this was discovered via "Social Media Surveillance" is a leap, and a weak argument about such surveillance (which is a real problem that I've been arguing against since the late 90's).

    Again, this was on the jumbotron. Stuff on the jumbotron has made the media circles since the advent of the jumbotron.

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  • [–] 29 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    Their reaction is what set it all off too. Even the singer immediately speculates that they're having an affair because of how they acted. So yeah, even if he wasn't a billionaire, somebody probably would have doxxed him anyway because there are tons of people that like drama and know they can make money off it. That he is a billionaire and doing something deeply unethical is what makes the story go viral all over social media. Lots and lots of people there want to make money and clout by exploiting any avenue for drama and engagement.

    Perhaps the problems this exposes are not just our grim and omnipresent surveillance apparatus, but the attached system of gig-economy content creators all racing to the lowest common denominator for scraps of engagement and ad revenue? We've created a society of unempathetic monsters.

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  • [–] [S] 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    That he is a billionaire and doing something deeply unethical is what makes the story go viral all over social media.

    Is there a reliable source that he is a billionaire? I haven't seen that in any reporting. "Billionaire" is a four letter word around these parts, I would be careful about throwing the label around without solid evidence.

    Perhaps the problems this exposes are not just our grim and omnipresent surveillance apparatus, but the attached system of gig-economy content creators all racing to the lowest common denominator for scraps of engagement and ad revenue

    This I think is the real story. This isn't necessarily about our surveillance state, but more that we are constantly observed by the world and it is a specific type of hell that we cannot escape. The fact that this makes adultery more difficult is a bittersweet benefit, I guess, but there are no guardrails on this sort of thing. If this was in any other context besides a cheating CEO this would all be supremely fucked up, and that's why I think this is an article worth talking about.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Half-assed Google search suggests he's worth somewhere between 20 and 70 million.

    Astronomer as a company is worth around a billion.

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  • [–] [S] 2 points 1 year ago

    Half-assed Google search suggests he’s worth somewhere between 20 and 70 million.

    Sounds believeable, but I will point out that a google search alone is not a reliable source, so we still truly do not know and we shouldn't be making statements like this without reliable sources. Page one of a google search is just all the publications that paid google the most money to be on page one. IME, most of those are trash-tier AI-gen articles.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago

    Fair cop, I didn't check source I just saw it mentioned elsewhere. His company being valued at just over a billlion probably confused people.

    I grant that there's a difference of degrees here, but him being "just" an unethical millionaire doesn't substantially change my views on the situation.

    Someone in another thread mentioned polyamory which I find a personally interesting angle as well, since I practice relationship anarchy. This situation would just never happen to me because all my paramours know each other and know about the activies we do together. It makes me suspicious of these stories because while I also enjoy laughing at a rich guy getting caught, I don't like that it culturally reinforces this idea of monogamy as a core value and that breaking the trust of such monogamy should have public consequences.

    Obviously the last thing I want is society-wide condemnation of the wrong aspect of this situation. It isnt the having a side-piece that's the problem, it's the lying to your primary partner (and everyone else) that actually creates the trouble.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah… I am not sure how much this incident has to do with facial recognition or media surveillance. You went to a large concert for a globally known artist, where you can reasonably expect hundreds of cameras owned by both individuals and the venue. You brought your side piece, started touching all up on her. Recall the Jumbotron, which is famously used to highlight couples. Then you act shocked… That’s how you win stupid prizes

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    Most concerts don't have jumbotrons, though, and a jumbotron at a sporting event that is highlighting fans who are dressed in team colors is very different than just focusing on random people. There's a lot of ink that's been spilled on the creepiness of "kiss cams".

    It can be both wrong to cheat, and also wrong for us as a society to act as though being outside your home is consent for people to take videos of you as a subject. We should all have the right to exist without being someone else's entertainment or content.

    Was it dumb for them to be there together? Yeah, though mostly because it's dumb to cheat.

    I am not sure how much this incident has to do with facial recognition or media surveillance.

    I think this situation is a horrifying lens into just how much surveillance and social media sharing of strangers people are accepting of.

    You say, "you can reasonably expect hundreds of cameras owned by both individuals and the venue" as though there's nothing wrong with just recording everyone that is in public. Incidentally catching someone in a crowd is one thing, but zooming in on and singling people out is another. I don't think it's a particularly long leap to get from your quote to, "it's reasonable for police cameras to see you and know where you are if you're out in public".

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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Yeah, I’m all against social media surveillance, but this was on the jumbotron at a concert. Having said that, I do hate those segments in concerts and sports where they feature audiences on the screens without consent. It’s not like there’s a line in the customer agreement when buying tickets that you allow your face to be featured (unless there is?). That’s why I always make myself as boring as possible - either just sitting with a straight face, or eating something - so I don’t get singled out.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    It’s not like there’s a line in the customer agreement when buying tickets that you allow your face to be featured (unless there is?).

    It's shitty, but there is. Hell, even at small venues there usually at least a line saying "By buying this ticket you agree to be recorded"

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  • [–] 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 child)

    I'm glad someone is saying this, because frankly this whole situation is nasty.

    Are cheaters bad? Yes. Should people have informed the spouses? Yes. But that's not why people are posting memes about this non-stop, this is just schadenfreude.

    There are reasons beyond cheating why 2 people may not want to be broadcast to the world as a couple. If this was 2 men, we'd all understand the problems with this, but social media is not going to allow us the nuance to differentiate; social media's desire to play righteous sleuth for its own entertainment and ego is not a good thing, and we can't make it only do good.

    Is no one even considering whether their spouses want this level of attention, rather than the entire Internet deciding to make it national news for a week?

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  • [–] [S] 11 points 1 year ago

    You're absolutely right, there are consequences for people other than the cheating couple, and that is something to consider. It just sucks that you can't even go to a concert anymore without thinking deeply about how you might be observed.

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  • [–] [S] 17 points 1 year ago

    It is worth briefly considering the dystopia of this situation and its aftermath. It is not clear exactly how the Astronomer CEO was initially identified, but we have seen numerous cases where TikTok commenters and creators use Pimeyes and other readily available, often free facial recognition and social media research tools to identify a person. The Astronomer CEO’s name, his wife’s name, the head of HR’s name, and the third company executive’s name and social media profiles are all over the TikTok comments and Reddit comments. His latest LinkedIn post was full of comments about the incident, left before he disabled comments and ultimately deleted the post. Commenters have pointed out that his wife has removed his last name from several of her social media profiles.

    Today Polymarket opened two new Byron-related bets. The first asks the question: “Andy Byron out as Astronomer CEO by next Friday?” As of this writing, the site is giving him a 40 percent chance of leaving. Polymarket doesn’t care if he resigns or gets fired, the bet pays out to its “yes” voters so long as he leaves.

    The crueler bet, and the one with more activity, is the “Astronomer Divorce Parlay.” A parlay is a series or combination of bets, and this Polymarket listing requires both Byron and Cabot to get divorced. An announcement will satisfy the bet, it doesn’t have to be an official filing. But it can come from Byron and Cabot themselves or their spouses. The image attached to the bet is a screenshot from the moment the Jumbotron filmed the couple embracing.

    Brands are using Byron and Cabot’s face to build hype. The NEON film studio posted a picture of the couple on X to promote its upcoming horror movie Together. Chipotle commented on the story with a picture of its billboard that reads “It’s OK to Cheat.” Most chilling, the NYC Department of Sanitation used the viral moment to remind everyone that it has cameras everywhere.

    But one does not have to have sympathy or empathy for a CEO to see how this sort of thing could and often does go off the rails. This example is emblematic of the problem specifically because it’s easy to laugh at these people and because they’re doing something distasteful, but not illegal. The same technologies used to dox and research this CEO are routinely deployed against the partners of random people who have had messy breakups, attractive security guards, people who look “suspicious” and are caught on Ring cameras by people on Nextdoor, people who dance funny in public, and so on. There has been endless debate about the ethics of doxing cops and ICE agents and Nazis, and there are many times where it makes sense to research people doing harm on behalf of the state or who are doing violent, scary things in to innocent people. It is another to deploy these technologies against random people you saw on an airplane or who had a messy breakup with an influencer. And of course, these same technologies are regularly deployed by police and the feds against undocumented immigrants, regular people, and people wanting to visit the United States on tourist visas.

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