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[–] 181 points 2 weeks ago (25 children)

I think the thing I miss most about the old internet was the fact that many people just produced things without worrying about getting paid all the time. Websites were basic but fun, people uploaded funny videos just for laughs, and sites like Reddit were hardly heard of.

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  • [–] 87 points 2 weeks ago* (2 children)

    The internet was also a place you went to, and you could actually turn it off or walk away from. Now it’s everywhere and stitched into our entire lives.

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  • [–] 40 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    Something that I get angry about occasionally is how so many people have had their hobbies stolen from them. Like people who'd tinker about in their spare time making music, now feeling like they have to monetise it, and feeling the stress of not being able to supplement their failing income because they're just one artist in a sea of artists, someone without a major label giving them a push.

    I don't blame the people at all, we're all just trying to get on in this increasingly shitty world.

    I do a little radio show once a week. It's reasonably popular, but not so much that I could ever think about giving up the day job, and my day job's pay isn't too bad in the grand scheme of things. But even I'm at a point where I've set up a Patreon where if anyone wants to kick in £3 a month, they can. Ultimately it just helps with the running costs of my VPS and domain renewal, and will hopefully give me enough to be able to pick up a new midi controller.

    It's fine, and people are happy to help out because they get to be a part of something they enjoy, but I hate that there's been an increasingly vocal bit of my brane over the past year or so that's been telling me that if everyone who listens paid £3 a month, I'd be 'earning' an extra £450 (give or take). According to my stats, the episode from a couple of weeks back is up to 250 listens on the podcast feed. That's £750...

    It's my hobby. It's a thing I enjoy doing. But if I'm not careful it'll veer far too closely towards something I have to do, and that'll kill it.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I think about this peach vinaigrette story a lot in that context: https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/142qfal/uusername_unavailable_offers_us_a_cautionary_tale/

    Please forgive the Reddit link.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    Marx had a lot to say about this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation

    Edit:

    In his analysis, Marx identified four key aspects of alienated labour. First, the worker is alienated from the product of their labour, which is appropriated by the capitalist and confronts the worker as a hostile power.

    Second, they are alienated from the activity of production itself, which is experienced not as a fulfilling expression of creativity but as coerced, meaningless toil.

    Third, this leads to alienation from their own human nature, or species-being (Gattungswesen), as free, conscious activity is reduced to a mere means of survival.

    Finally, the worker is alienated from other people, as social relationships become reified and mediated by market exchange, fostering competition and indifference rather than community.

    Looks like #2 and #3 apply directly to the situation in your comment.

    Dude knew what he was talking about.

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  • [–] 59 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

    I still write and release open source software projects despite full well knowing they will likely have 0 users and that AI could replicate it in 1% the time I took. Doesn't matter. I do it cause programming is what I love to do. I think it's really sad that a lot of people have forgotten that's the purpose of doing this kind of stuff. It's not like we were ever gonna see a cent for it anyways. One of my projects was downloaded about 8000 times. That's nice. Too bad it's a project I discontinued because I no longer use it. No refunds!

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  • [–] 22 points 2 weeks ago

    A programmer that does it for the love of the game! Here's to hoping more people (yes human ppl, not agents) follow your example! These are the things that keep me vested in tech in the first place

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  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago

    I love people like you. I can t believe I was talking to my partner about this very case of FOSS programmers who do it just to scratch an itch but still benefiting others and the world more than any sycho-corpo can ever hope to

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago

    I have a few projects like that and I used to create itch.io pages for them (at least for those related to gamedev). I've discontinued all of them years ago but recently I started getting notifications about people paying a dollar or two for them for no reason.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    What kind of projects are you working on? I really need to start some of my own or contribute to other projects but I'm not even sure where to begin.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Are you using Linux / Wayland? Lately I've been having a lot of fun using gtk4-layer-shell in creative ways. Imo a great way to come up with projects that you'll enjoy and be motivated to finish is to explore something totally novel and see where it takes you. An even better way is to recognize that feeling of 'I feel like my computer should be able to do X' and then make it possible. My last project of that variety was a system to stream videos from torrents as soon as possible after the download begins. Can start watching a 10gb video file all the way through in full quality with no buffering after like 30 seconds of downloading if you fiddle with the torrent and analyze the video file as it's being written. Unfortunately I won't be releasing this one as I learned that it would be quite bad for swarm health, but it's cool for personal use.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    That is cool, and KDE Plasma is my home these days. This is all very relevant to my interests and I suspect it is to more and more others lately too.

    Thanks for contributing even if it doesn't get a ton of attention. You never know when your novel approach to something will end up being THE idea someone needed to solve their own problem.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    This still exists, it's just niche. Having a little personal website with all sorts of silliness and whatever you create is incredibly popular among the techie furries.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    Yeah but I want to return to the days when normal people used the internet for fun, not just the freaks.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    I have this debate all the time with people - so many people say things like "creators need to be paid else they won't produce content" like nah that's the whole problem. They produce shit content because they get paid. Flash era, newgrounds etc had so much more soul

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  • [–] 67 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    It's a store where there's a pickpocket in every aisle, all the products are cheap fakes and the registers are programmed to cheat.

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  • [–] 53 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    The social contract was that everyone was a custodian of that library. That's how we got Wikipedia.

    Social media and monetization broke that social contract. Another building was constructed beside the library. People were checking out books from the library and selling them at the market.

    Now with LLMs, those books are being burnt. There's a trillion dollar giga-sized building next to the derelict library and the fast becoming defunct market that is industrial scale mass producing pulpy books.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Wikipedia still exists, in fact it's expanding every day...

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    And the fascists have been going after it wholesale.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    Yeah, and communists, and pedophiles, and greens, and...

    Wikipedia has always been the target of people trying to bend public opinion, that's why it has the processes in place that it has, and [citation needed] all around.

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  • [–] 36 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Here's what N. M. Klein wrote about the internet all the way back in 1998, likening it to a labyrinth.
    I don't say this often, but this text has completely changed the course of my life.
    Some choice quotes:

    1998 is still a dangerously nascent stage in the Internet, while a trillion dollar nest of dragons sets up shop.
    Inside, you have seemingly infinite choice, but practically no way out. In fact, you prefer being trapped a bit. That gives the story some bite. Why enter Happy Imprisonment? Because you slowly catch your breath. You expect to outwit the program.
    Pockets of confusion in the system let the player imagine that there are ways to subvert it. It's a Faustian sim-bargain. The player submits to the labyrinth, then pretends to cheat.
    Simulating revolt is more fun, and a better investment. [...] But consider what sim-revolt implies as a broader model for public life? We pretend that the labyrinth of the Web makes us free of the global corporate program that builds and owns it. We feel above the swamp of idiotic web sites. We know how to surf. The demon apparatus can't get us. We can dig out of anything. We're never trapped.
    Recently, there is talk of voting on the Web. Is a cross between ergonomic fascism and the shopping mall the best frame of mind for making political decisions? Let us not mystify information delivery too much. Despite the services, it is not fundamentally democratic, only the freedom to chat. The server and the search engine are a feudal plantation. They decide for us, when to plant, when to hunt.
    The labyrinth is a mood of passivity. It's like saying you're never really trapped in bad traffic. Just because we can subvert the Web by saying nasty things or engaging in cyber-sex in the margins, or downloading information cheaply, does not mean that we are subverting any core reality.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    He was wrong about voting.

    It would make voting easy and accessible.

    They don’t want that at all.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Everything I've seen about internet voting has shown me that making it even little bit secure and fair is basically impossible. Would be interested in some information to the contrary!

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    The fundamental problem with online voting is that putting the data online even in an isolated manner immediately creates the potential for a small attack to affect large numbers of votes, which is much less cost effective an attack than when they're on paper and physically distanced.

    Someone will inevitably mention the Tom Scott voting machines video, whenever this topic comes up, so it may as well be me today.

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  • [–] 19 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I find this blinding so I went and got another screenshot for yas.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I Walk the corner to the rubble,
    That used to be a library, line up to the mind cemetery now,

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  • [–] 12 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    This is exactly how I feel about the internet: it should've been a reincarnation of the Library of Alexandria, not Wall Street.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Once its no longer financially viable, they'll let go. Right now its exciting and accessible. A lot of new people are online shopping when they never have before. I think eventually those people will get sick of it. The excitement of getting packages and filling your house with stuff you don't need will wane.

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  • I don't think they will let it go. At the end of the day, people still need to buy stuff, and if they can do it from a phone, that saves them a trip to whichever physical store they would have gone to. Also, sometimes people need highly specific things that they can't get at nearby stores, or maybe there is a nearby store with the thing but they have to search to find out about it.

    If they let it go, it'll probably be due to an economic crisis in which shipping is too expensive and no one can afford to buy anything other than groceries anyway. It won't be because people stopped wanting to buy stuff. And at that point, we'll be screwed because no one will be able to afford to maintain the internet either.

    I think if we're going to get the Library of Alexandria back, we're going to need to build dedicated corporation-free online spaces where people can share information, and we'll need to figure out a viable funding model for that. Like, well, libraries.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    Yeah and this is why my friends all have gibbity subscriptions: "its so much easier to find info instead of scrolling through reddit or a ton of google pages that are ads! I set my gibbity up to tell me the weather!"

    Jfc people are stupid and I hate everyone and I must scream.

    /rant.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (5 children)

    "With Spotify, playlists are created for me!"

    Bud, you're letting someone else define your preferences, and giving up ownership.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    ok but hear me out; I made some wild musical discoveries by having playlists generated based on a song, add it to the main playlist and do the same with some unkown song in said playlist until I have a big playlist of very weird niches combined.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Thats fine on the surface sure. However as previous person said, youre giving up your preferences to an algorithm and its eventually going to push you to corpo slop for profit as is the goal of all things capitalism. Do you trust the Facebook algorithm to feed you news? Streaming platforms are the exact same thing. Its very nefarious because it seems harmless.

    I think people forgot how life used to be, and its really sad. Ask a friend or make a post for music recommendations. Go to local music stores. Use bandcamp. Search the web fkr music blogs. Theres unlimited potential and people forgot how to be humans.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    I don't actively listen to music anymore at the moment but the thing about a good algorithm is that (it seem like) it notices things about your preferences that you wouldn't have noticed because of biases and also it has a database of stuff to pull out from whereas you have to go in blind and hope to stumble onto it.

    I get the gut reaction of "algorithm bad" but not only is it not 100% corpo interests all the time, it's just one of the ways to find new music. Also:
    Do you think a local music store would stock only niche items that 99.999% of their customers won't like? No but the advertising algorithm doesn't care if you like weird shit, just that it can push something to you.

    Got a bit rambly but I guess I made my point.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    Well Spotify does endorse terrorist organizations (us military, ice) so I won't support them.

    I'm also gonna say I don't agree. Its always corporate interest. You think google maps exists to be a nice little helper to find your way around town? Fuck no. They track your every move ,every single store you go to, then they buy data from credit card companies to get your buying habits and then start routing you directions past stores they think you will like. Or using Alexa in old folks homes to record them and then sell medications to them (this happened not long ago here on Lemmy). These are the less nefarious examples but it then leads to bots on Facebook influencing the way people vote and then bam, you have fascism and wars and people dead because of algorithms. It all leads back to it. Its dystopian as fuck and sounds insane but I am 100% right on this.

    Sure, a music store won't have absolutely everything but that was just one of my options. I'm not blaming you for liking streaming and algorithms (just like 99.9% of the world now) I'm just trying to open your eyes a little on the real human cost of this type of thing. Its not a good road to go down. If you are fully aware (as you seem to be) then its not as bad, but still be careful.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    More like "mob-controlled gambling den" than store.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    The pioneering days of the internet are over. We left the Golden Age of the web and are now in the Mafia-controlled phase as you pointed out. If history continues repeating itself it'll be decades before anything gets better.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 weeks ago

    Capitalism is a machine that turns all freely accessible public goods into paid products and services.

    But hey, look at the GDP rising. Don't you feel richer?

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  • [–] 10 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I should visit the local library again

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago*

    It's not just the library. I've been doing a lot of the stuff I did two decades ago as a teenager. Thrift stores, Half-priced books, the library, the mall. As a chronically online person, I can't explain the exact feeling of it. It's somehow both less and more. The internet was this amazing grand archive and forum. It was everything, but now most of everything has been stolen and sold off.

    Edit: but yeah check out your local library. It likely has an events calendar online that you can browser for reasons to go.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 weeks ago

    Not just the internet. Ever fucking thing is for profit

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  • [–] 31 points 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    I wish the internet WAS a store. It’s a lavatory these days, full of shit and scribbled texts on the door aiming to rot your brain and to destroy democracy.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago

    It's a store. Profit and greed are a huge factor in what the internet has become. We used to have people paying for hosting so they could provide information to the public for free. Now every fucking moron wants to make money by making 'content', it predates AI, by a lot.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago

    It was just another form of enclosures where the wealthy locked off huge areas of the commons floor their own private gain and forced the rest of us to get a subscription

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  • [–] 6 points 2 weeks ago

    Line up to tha mind cemetery now

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  • [–] 5 points 2 weeks ago

    This... This makes me so sad.

    I count myself lucky that I'm a non-academic that has access to a physical library at work.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    "gotta keep the poors uneducated as possible. easier to control them." - rich fux

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  • [–] 7 points 2 weeks ago

    They don't want you to know this but the stores used to be libraries too, and then some fuckhead didn't like the poors being on his commons and said "yes, private ownership is the best way to manage distribution of these communal resources!"

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  • [–] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    This is canonically accurate as in the beginning, it was basically universities that had the connections from "the Internet". Of course, the defense dept had it first and then probably couldn't figure out and gave it to smarter people. The rest is history.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Its never been easier to get free software, and if anyone is telling you the internet used to be easier to parse then they were not there in the beginning.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 weeks ago

    Gopher sites were great for finding information, if the information was actually there. The tree structure made drilling down to what you needed very straightforward. Mind you, the internet was also small enough that I had downloaded and pribted a book that listed every site and a short description of what it contained.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    lol no, I remember altavista categories sending you to shops. But it was a sane environment. Now the world's gone crazy and the web with it.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    Yep. All good things needlessly come to an end.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    because the internet is a store but it used to be a library

    Joke's on you. It is a dumpster fire of long ai slop articles. the continous churning of slop is keeping the dumpster fire going with no end in sight .

    The internet is Dead People. The internet is DEEEAAAAAD !

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago

    Anyone else played around with reticulum?

    Because it feels a lot like library-era internet.

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