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[–] 53 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)

BS we had riots with BLM. They are putting up mass surveillance because they know that it’s coming again. “A riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear?” - MLK

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (2 children)

    BLM wasn't far enough, because police are still killing black people.

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  • [–] 59 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (10 children)

    Brace yourself for an apparently super edgy hot take:

    Rioting > voting

    rioting & voting > just rioting

    just voting > nothing at all

    Discouraging voting or rioting = supporting the status quo.

     

    Do what you have the means to do. If that's multiple things, fuck yeah! You don't have to choose one or the other. If voting is all you got in you, do it.

    Just don't do nothing. And don't support the status quo.

    Edit - and if you're gonna riot, park off site, leave your phone at home, cover your face, cover your hands, always have an escape plan, and don't fuckin post about it online!!!

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  • [–] 29 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Brace yourself for an apparently super edgy hot take:

    Rioting > voting

    rioting & voting > just rioting

    just voting > nothing at all

    Discouraging voting or rioting = supporting the status quo.

    I'm stealing random awesome Lemmy quotes for early voting encouragement cards. Would you like your user handle to be kept out of it or can I credit it?

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  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    No preference - do whatever's the most useful for that cause. We need as much engagement on as many fronts as possible.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 weeks ago

    Lol, fuck this comm. They banned you for encouraging people to vote? It's so fucking transparent what they're doing.

    Interesting concept, terrible execution, run by people with an agenda to push. I've finally decided to block it.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago

    Put a small rock in your shoe, too, because they can use gait as another identifying variable.

    And scope your ALPR camera locations, too. Also, there are ALWAYS like 2x more than what are listed. They can also pull private cameras, too, if they really feel like it.

    Always plan your egress.

    There is strength in numbers. But also for them. And you are still fleshy and soft and breakable. Be careful, a lot of these cops and feds are terrorists and are not playing safe anymore, they WILL try to maim anybody, kill you if they get an excuse, and ruin your livelihoods if given the chance.

    This is not a game. This is not a test. This country is sick.

    In the meantime, work on your cardio. Always work on your cardio. They are, too.

    Remember, the US is extremely well funded on the bad side, and is basically the biggest, most well funded, and well backed gang in the entire world by a huge margin, still. If you get found or get your card pulled and get singled out, you better be prepared and make the right decisions, because money, hate, fear, ignorance, and power does awful things to even seemingly normal people.

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  • [+] -8 points 3 weeks ago* (5 children)

    Rioting = participatory democracy

    Voting for status quo defined by elite = not actual democracy

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  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Who gives a fuck if it's actual democracy. Vote for whoever has the best shot of keeping the greater evil out of office, and use that time to sharpen your guillotine. Again, you don't need to pick just one.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago* (3 children)

    Yup. It's a form of putting on the brakes. It's a chance for directional momentum.

    Voting for the worse person is worse, voting for the less worse person is less worse. That's all.

    If anybody tries to convince you of otherwise to not vote, they're a fed plant or another type of cancer.

    If you ever come out of a conversation or reading anything feeling demoralized or like you should do nothing: that is 100% on purpose.

    Everything is scary right now, but you should still ABSOLUTELY be voting AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, especially if you're voting by mail!!! They're delaying the mail (sometimes by over two weeks or more!) and have removed grace periods - if your ballot is even remotely even CLOSE to late, they WILL throw it out, throw it under a truck, hide it, whatever... Because, again, one way or another:

    > The goal is to get your vote to not count! <

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    I'm not trying to convince you to not vote, but the system is rigged and I'm trying to convince you to riot.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (1 child)

    That's fair and entirely accurate.

    Edit: everybody should still vote though. Do both! Voting is easy, rioting is less easy, but is directly effective.

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  • No it isn't, it's counter effective because it helps maintain the liberal parties as the farthest left conceivable parties.

    If we instead convinced people to become communists instead of uselessly voting for liberals we would have more actual communists.

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  • [–] 95 points 3 weeks ago* (21 children)

    i mean that kinda ignores what la, minnesota, new york, etc did earlier this year.. especially considering people were murdered by ice because of it.

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  • [–] 35 points 3 weeks ago (13 children)

    I don't think propaganda is based in facts.

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  • [–] 30 points 3 weeks ago (11 children)

    Good propaganda is. The recipe is to use some facts and add a cause, derive a conclusion, exaggerate the fact, mention other facts irrelevant in the context but implying something in combination...
    Just lying gets you the people already in you camp. The others don't have a reason to believe you. But if you add some facts, the lies become easier to believe if the person doesn't already know better.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago (10 children)

    You're right! Should've put "necessarily" based on facts. At the very least that propaganda distorts facts. Basically propaganda doesn't really care about being factual and will go out of its way to ignore inconvenient facts.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)

    It wasn't always a meaningless pejorative. McCarthyism did that, which is still going on.

    Putin has become our "Emanuel Goldstein" foreign boogieman for everything the Epstein Class has done to us.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago (8 children)

    It wasn’t always a meaningless pejorative. McCarthyism did that, which is still going on.

    Did you fail history class like super bad or something? There's been propaganda from literally every country for basically all written history, and people have been calling it for just as long.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

    I am not only versed in history, but capable of the most cursory internet searches.

    Per wikipedia "The meaning of propaganda changed from a neutral term for spreading ideas to a heavily negative label for manipulation and deception during World War I and World War II."

    Wear your dunce cap with shame, Professor Numbnuts.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (6 children)

    You have to link sources ya screwball. It's funny you didn't and I think you know why you didn't link it. It may have something to do with the propaganda you're spewing:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda

    The term is essentially contested and some have argued for a neutral definition,[54][55]: 9  arguing that ethics depend on intent and context,[55] while others define it as necessarily unethical and negative.[56] Emma Briant defines it as "the deliberate manipulation of representations (including text, pictures, video, speech etc.) with the intention of producing any effect in the audience (e.g. action or inaction; reinforcement or transformation of feelings, ideas, attitudes, or behaviours) that is desired by the propagandist."

    Propaganda has existed since the beginning of recorded history. In the New Kingdom of Egypt, the state utilized a "Clean Victory"[failed verification] ideology to prioritize the preservation of Maat (cosmic order) over factual military reporting.[21] Temple reliefs sanitized warfare by omitting violence against non-combatants,[22] portraying the Pharaoh as a disciplined protector rather than a chaotic aggressor.[23][unreliable source?] This was exemplified by Ramesses II, who reframed the Battle of Kadesh, a stalemate, as a divine personal victory.[24] To visually reinforce this authority, artists used hierarchical scaling to depict the king as a giant among men,[25] utilizing motifs like the "smiting of the enemy" to symbolize the Pharaoh's triumph over chaos.

    According to Harold Lasswell, the term began to fall out of favor due to growing public suspicion of propaganda in the wake of its use during World War I by the Creel Committee in the United States and the Ministry of Information in Britain: Writing in 1928, Lasswell observed, "In democratic countries the official propaganda bureau was looked upon with genuine alarm, for fear that it might be suborned to party and personal ends. The outcry in the United States against Mr. Creel's famous Bureau of Public Information (or 'Inflammation') helped to din into the public mind the fact that propaganda existed.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

    McCarthyism is a political practice defined by the accusation and investigation of left-wing individuals of communist and Soviet influence on American institutions and of Soviet espionage in the United States during the late 1940s through the 1950s, heavily associated with the McCarthy era.[1] After the mid-1950s, U.S. senator Joseph McCarthy, who had spearheaded the campaign, gradually lost his public popularity after several of his accusations were found to be false.

    McCarthy was a huge asshole, and caused immense harm. However, claiming he's the reason there was a negative connotations with the word, then saying it happened during WWI and WWII, and then only viewing it from the incredibly modern western centric view is incredibly dishonest.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (5 children)

    "all written history"

    All this TL;DR doesn't save face.

    Stew in your shame.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    First sentence, second quote:

    Propaganda has existed since the beginning of recorded history.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    Propagating ideas has existed.

    JFC. You are ready to rewrite the dictionary and history books just so you don't look stupid, but it just keeps getting worse. You keep saying stupider and stupider things.

    Stop.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Okay I think I'm done. Have fun eating the propaganda of the machine. I hope leopards don't eat your face!

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  • [+] [S] -33 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    Those cities did nothing effective.

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  • [–] 35 points 3 weeks ago

    You can't judge the effectiveness of any action only by its immediate measurable effects. The working class of the US is in a long period of finding their courage and strength and solidarity after decades of propaganda hid it from them. Every peaceful protest encourages bigger peaceful protests and they encourage more disruptive protests. Every protest that gets tear gassed all to hell by the police pisses people off more and encourages more and bigger and even more disruptive protests.

    I hate how slow this is all going too and I have been ready for and advocating for direct action for a long fucking time now. I have taken direct action when the scale is small enough that I can do it alone. It takes time to rouse a population and it is embarrassing to our country that it's taking so long but it is absolute bullshit to say that what we've done has been 'nothing effective'. Class consciousness is higher than I've ever seen it in my lifetime and it's only growing. The amount of people ready for direct action and the amount of groups organizing is greater than I have ever seen it. That's all progress. It's happening. Instead of being a doomer go out and organize and you'll see what is growing.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 child)

    And the riots in France are effective? All it has done is create campaign material for Le Pen’s political ads for the presidential election next April. These Nazi are already spinning it as a migrant problem. Le Pen will certainly win now as she surges in popularity.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    Same thing happened in Germany when they let bankers run the country, same thing happening in ALL of Europe now.

    When you make grassroots socialist populism impossible you make faux-populist fascism inevitable.

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  • [–] 23 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)
  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)
  • [–] 10 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    comparing shells to operating systems... command.com will prevail!

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

    If you ever want to tense up a boomer, pronounce DOS like "dose" instead of "daws". Works every time. Also tell them its a spanish/mexican word that the operating system was jokingly named after, because it works hard.

    Its a power move at thanksgiving to derail the uncles if trump comes up. If they want to talk nonsense and bullshit, then we all can too.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    Think what you like, I supposed. Closed will always steal everything you own after you die.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago* (1 child)

    Was just commenting on the technical details. I only use proprietary software when paid to do so. On Linux for 25 years.

    Dang, I also play proprietary games :(

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  • I have done it before in my own research on certain subjects they were in relevant points of my studies regarding. Sauerbraten is the closest I'll go off FOSS solid anymore and that once in the last decade to build something for someone else and demo it in certain ways and it's FPS nature to their interests. I have discarded interest in video games personally. I got a good stack of board games to replace them in my life. Comps are for something else primarily now so until I get better at those skills, VG's for my vapors.

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  • [–] 128 points 3 weeks ago (28 children)

    They should still vote. Not sure why that's off the table entirely.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Because there's a psyop convincing people to not vote

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago

    Votings worked out great so far... Price of freedom I guess 😂. We should vote for whatever party represents our class interests but don't get illusions, we were given 'democracy' to stop revolution and the only true path to democracy is a workers revolution to bring about Democratic workers control of our economy.

    Essentially, mainstream politics use voting to limit us, we post our ballot and that's that, the ruling class can continue in which ever form they take, whether Democrat or Republican but the power still sits with the same class, in my case, Tory, Labour, Green, or Reform. Tory's did a shit show for 14 years, then labour came in, and we see no stop to austerity, we see the same allegiance with Israel. Our voting the 'left' did little, we must play an active role in fighting for our class interests.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (22 children)

    Nothing about this says that voting is off the table entirely....

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  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (20 children)

    No but it's a common sentiment from circles on here

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  • [–] -2 points 3 weeks ago (19 children)

    No, its not. Liberals just imagine it is whenever anyone points out how the Democrats suck.

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  • [–] 11 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (18 children)

    Yes it is, I have had an argument several times with .ml folks who articulated that voting legitimised the system making you culpable for its shortcomings.

    Very common around election season, I think the first time I heard it was actually last midterm in 2022.

    Hell there are 3 comments on this post saying don't vote. There's no ambiguity they aren't saying voting isn't enough, in no uncertain terms they are saying don't vote.

    Is there an argument to be made that the ratcheting mechanisms of FPTP skew the results towards the lesser of two evils? Absolutely, especially at the presidential level.

    Where that is less true is the midterms and municipal elections. We've seen proof that we can have real progressives like Mamdani and we need even more like Abdul El-Sayed. Progressive policy is popular and any movement needs allies.

    I'm not saying don't protest, I'm not even going to say do it peacefully but voting still has it's place.

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  • [–] -4 points 3 weeks ago (16 children)
  • [–] 5 points 3 weeks ago* (15 children)

    No, thank you, you are very capable of reading through this very low comment post to find them. I'm not going to litigate reality with you.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (14 children)

    Yes, but I don’t know which ones you’re referring to so in order to have a productive conversation I need to know specifically what you’re referring to.

    This is not the first time I’ve seen this conversation play out like this.

    Liberal: Leftists believes crazy thing!

    Leftist: Can you give us examples of “crazy thing”?

    Liberals: No, I cannot.

    Or in the rare instance where the liberal does actually cite a source, the source isn’t saying what the liberal is saying they said.

    I will continue to believing this is self-soothing delusion by liberals until they can provide some evidence for their claims.

    Like, What you’re saying is so grossly untrue you don’t even want to take an opportunity to cherry pick someone saying something not broadly supported by leftists?

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (11 children)
  • [–] -4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (10 children)

    You think needing to provide evidence for your claims is satire? It seems like a pretty basic thing to ask someone.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (9 children)

    It's just that I offered you the same proof you ordered me, none, which is fine, we are sharing lived experience on social media.

    However, It comes off arrogant, almost as if you're saying "my reality is objectively correct and everyone else's is delusional unless they take time out of their life to write me a dissertation."

    Believe me or don't but you need to practice what you preach

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  • [–] -4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (8 children)

    Great! I believe you when you say you don’t consider yourself a liberal and I respect that. As not a “liberal” I would think you understand how its pretty annoying to constantly see your beliefs being misrepresented on this forum.

    In that spirit I think it’s a pretty low bar to copy and paste a link to your source for why you believe what you say you believe. You’ve written several paragraphs, that’s already much more effort than what I’ve asked.

    Edit: I will add to this whether or not you consider yourself to be a liberal, you are taking the liberal position.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (7 children)

    It's a liberal position to express that people have argued with me about whether voting makes you culpable or not?

    I did not misrepresent your beliefs because I never once tried to say that you hold those beliefs.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (6 children)

    You made a claim that plays into those narratives then refused to back up those claims with any evidence.

    Look, its fine, its easy to fall into reactionary narratives, it can happen to anyone, they can be like a warm blanket at times… its comfortable to tell yourself… “If everyone votes the right way everything will be fine, its the evil leftist tankies ruining everything”… Perhaps you don’t fully even buy into that narrative, but you clearly bought into part of it. Everything won’t be fine even if everyone votes the right way, and more realistically everyone won’t vote the right way no matter how much we argue about it on Lemmy. 

    Appreciate you engaging with me today, try to consider my arguments without feeling personally attacked. These narratives are put out there by powerful forces trying to divide us.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (5 children)

    Your arguments are immaterial to interactions with other people though. You may have a perfectly reasonable position, that's never what I was talking about and I'm not interested in you moving the goal posts on someone else's argument.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

    I’m not moving the goal post. I litterally repeated what I said in my first (long) post in terms that sound more understanding to your position.

    If anything you’re moving the goalpost by saying your opinion is more complicated than what you origianally posted. Which I have tried to take in good faith.

    At this point, I gotta be honest I’m more flabbergasted by the idea that anyone actually thinks it’s a compelling response to say “no copying and pasting links is hard” to “the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim” than anything else.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

    I don't owe you proof of an anecdote. Something clearly felt by the community given the reactions to this post. Again none of this is about you, so you cannot defend it, it if about .ml users in my case and maybe others from everyone else. Regardless you're asserting that everyone has collective hysteria rather than engaging with the possibility that people hold those opinions.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

    I don't owe you proof of an anecdote.

    You do if you want to defend the claim you made. We’re going in circles, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. This is like first week of rhetoric 101 stuff here.

    Something clearly felt by the community given the reactions to this post.

    Right, like I already said, it’s a self soothing narrative for liberals, that’s why they buy into your claims even while you’re openly saying you aren’t going to provide evidence for your claims.

    Again none of this is about you, so you cannot defend it, it if about .ml users in my case and maybe others from everyone else.

    Maybe getting a little deeper into will help you to understand the point I’m getting at. I kind of wanted to avoid getting this deep into this because its honestly pretty heavy and complicated and there are a lot of moving parts. I am defending the ml’s position, you just don’t understand the ml position.

    This may seem like a strange place to start but I think if I start with a simplier example you’re primed to understand maybe you’ll see more of what I’m saying.

    The self soothing thing — it’s ideological function is the same thing as MAGA saying immigrants are criminals. Sure you can find examples of immigrants committing crimes, but on average immigrants commit less crimes than native born citizens.

    So why do they buy into this narrative about immigrants being criminals? You could say racism and that is absolutely part of it. But almost more importantly if the immigrants aren’t the problem that means conservatives and republican leaders are a big part of the problem or even more scary maybe capitalism is part of the problem. They can’t accept that, so they scapegoat immigrants. It's pretty simple psychology to understand in this case.

    To start the parallel the democrats are also part of the problem. But liberals can’t accept that in the same way that conservatives their leaders are part of the problem.

    So what is the failure that liberals can’t accept about their leaders? Well, Biden then later Harris funded the genocide in Gaza, that cost them Michigan, there was no path for the democrats to win the presidency in 2024 without Michigan. It was the same in 2020 and 2016.

    Let’s get into the specifics of why Kamala couldn’t win Michigan. In Dearborn, Michigan there is a large Palestian-sympathetic Arab community. People who literally have family members in Gaza. 

    Here’s the meat and potatoes of the point I’m trying to get to. There is nothing you can say to someone who is actively having a genocide committed against their family to get them to vote for the person funding the genocide. Michigan was gone if Biden and later Harris didn’t change on this issue, the election was over before it started. 

    The response to this situation was the uncommitted movement. The uncommitted movement —which was largely organized by the Arab community in Dearborn— was uncommitted to vote for the democratic candidate if the candidate didn’t change course on the issue of the genocide in Gaza. They voted ‘uncommitted’ on the 2024 democratic primary ballot, they had an impressive turnout. Definitely enough that Biden/Harris should have taken it seriously.

    The ‘tankie’ response to the uncommitted movement was to have solidarity with the Palestian-Dearborn community and put more pressure on the democratic candidate try to get them to change course. The liberal response was basically to scream VOTE at ‘tankies’ and refuse to engage with the problem, kinda similar to what has happened on this thread.

    If instead the liberals had taken the time to listen to the more complicated and nuanced point ‘tankies’ and put more pressure on Harris, she might changed course and she might be president today. So contrary to the narrative that was implied by your little comment the ‘tankies’ were actually doing more to try to help Harris win than the liberals were. Not necessarily by voting but by putting the pressures on Harris in ways that she needed to get over the finish line.

    Back to the self soothing, it’s an attempt by liberals to wash their hands of their complicity in this genocide, “its not my fault its those “tankies” posting “don’t vote” on social media made Harris loose” they say to themselves. It’s the same scapegoating behavior that conservatives engage in. It’s bullshit.

    I understand this very heavy shit, you probably want to reject everything I’ve said, and you’ll probably find a way to rationalize doing so. But everything I’m saying is true. 

    Regardless you're asserting that everyone has collective hysteria rather than engaging with the possibility that people hold those opinions.

    Seems like a false dichotomy, it seems like its probably both to me. These are deeply held beliefs that many people have very good reason to be hysterical about.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (1 child)

    You should look up the motte and bailey fallacy.

    Respectfully, no I don't. Because the validity of my claim is not in question because the only relevance it has to my assertion is whether or not I talked to ml folks with that opinion and I'm not digging back through years of DMS to find it for you. So again, take my word for it or don't. I'm fine if you don't believe me.

    We've both wasted enough time and you just litetially called everyone else delusional so that's a logical stopping point. If you have more I will read it but I will not reply.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago (1 child)
  • [+] -1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    You made the claim that it was a liberal strawman to suggest that leftists tell others not to vote. When challenged with something you could literally prove by scrolling/swiping down - you ask for evidence.

    Sealioning is not a logical fallacy, it is a bad faith rhetorical device. They shouldn't need to prove something you can easily see.

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  • [–] 54 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    America when kids are literally murdered at shool: "the soind of children screaming has been removed"

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  • [–] 36 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    If you aren't voting AND burning down government buildings you are leaving levers of power unpulled. Pull them all.

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  • [–] 36 points 3 weeks ago (6 children)
  • [–] 13 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

    Americans don't know how to riot. If they did when Renee Good was killed, there would be three dead cops in the street. Because there was 2 dozen citizens there and 3 police officers.

    If that happened in my country, she might still be dead, but so would the cops.

    For a police force that constantly "fears for their lives" as an excuse to murder their own citizens, they sure as fuck don't feel enough fear.

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  • [–] 12 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    Cops dont actually fear for their lives.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Then fucking make them.

    Don't all of you have guns too?

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  • [–] 13 points 2 weeks ago (1 child)

    Unfortunately, pedophiles ("misopede") of the bourgeoisie are well defended in France too. Brigitte Macron, Polanski, Depardieu, ... It need big mobilization to trial to be made, and even more for the crime to be acknowledge. Their is still no trial for Epstein accomplices

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  • [–] 1 point 2 weeks ago

    The Epstein class is fundamentally transnational, this is the key problem. I welcome any organization trying to weed them out to any degree that is successful, but we must acknowledge - these people possess power (through money and influence) that utterly transcends states, and frankly governance of any kind.

    If we don't deal with that fact, we will simply continue as we have.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Hey, now. The US has underfunded schools, too!

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