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[–] 97 points 1 month ago (16 children)

I don't know a lot of people who assume the name Paola is male. This feels like a strawman argument.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    This is definitely a self-tell. They will see an article or comments that only refers to her as a "scientist" with no gender and assume the article or person is referring to them as male because that's what they think when they see "scientist".

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  • [–] 26 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    For context, there is a trend of correcting people saying scientists to "white man", because articles frame discoveries as "scientists discover x" when "x" had been widely known by the local population since that population got there.

    However, this argument is fucking stupid because science has, famously, not categorized and described everything that exists, even if non scientists already know about it.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    And most importantly, major publications are specifically not framing this as a discovery, but as a documentation.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago

    Yes, they discovered that it was a new species. If I had a rock on my desk for 20 years then one day ran a test that discovered it was a new element, I could say I discovered a new element even though I knew the rock existed.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago

    That's kind of self-referential gaslighting. How can you tell if society is progressing in awareness (which it is) if every time you see "scientist" you think "white man" and justify it as assuming they were racist enough to put that? (Not you, the person we are talking about.)

    That idea that "scientists discover x" being a substitute is correct, but is well-known today because it is a historical trend that was described by modern academics. Not a rampant current issue (despite single examples one might be able to find).

    All I'm saying is that progress starts with the institution and the reader and should meet somewhere in the middle. The reader assuming this is what articles mean downright perpetuates the problem.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    yeah I don't think I've heard of anyone confusing who the scientist is. I also don't get why anyone would think an event happening in Bolivia would include white people

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  • [+] -11 points 1 month ago (7 children)

    I don't know anyone who would see a hyphenated last name and assume it's a male.

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  • [–] 16 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    There are many cultures where having two last names or a hyphenated last name is pretty normal for any gender.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Yes, but people are bad at making assumptions that are globally accurate

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    My only point was that many people wouldn't think twice about the gender of a person because of a hyphenated last name. It's not even necessarily that common with married women tbh.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    You're right. I suspect the numbers are very similar for all genders, and most people wouldn't make any gendered assumptions based on it.

    But of those who do make an assumption, I would expect it to favor women due to the way last names are traditionally chosen and how that's changing culturally in western countries.

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  • [–] 51 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I did not, I actually did not think about the scientist at all. I was distracted by the tiny cat. CAT!

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    I didn’t either. I kinda assumed it was them having a group of already identified cats and then doing science-y stuff and saying “wait! This one’s different!” And poof, new species.

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  • That's kinda exactly what happened. There were 4 known species. One cat ended up in a shelter that was not exactly like any of those, so they decided to take DNA from 35 cats from the 4 (now 5) species and showed the 5th was a separate species.

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  • [–] 41 points 1 month ago (35 children)

    what's... what's going on here?

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  • [–] 55 points 1 month ago (24 children)
  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    but what is the source of the "white guy" controversy? where are people reading about this new cat and commenting on the race and gender of the discoverer?

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  • [–] 14 points 1 month ago

    Some people online have started to either seriously or jokingly equate headlines saying "Scientists discovered" with "white guys found out something the natives have known about for years"

    This is a specific type of callout post with justifiable ire about that, but to the tone of "for fucks sake not all scientists are white guys. Behold; the scientist who discovered the new cat."

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (18 children)

    I feel like this isn't about a cat

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (17 children)

    People were assuming that the biologist that discovered the new cat species was a white guy. She's a Bolivian biologist who is decidedly not a white guy.

    Just your average casual sexism weaving it's way through social media as usual.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    People were assuming that the biologist that discovered the new cat species was a white guy.

    where?

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  • [–] -2 points 1 month ago* (7 children)

    I’m answering what the OG post is talking about. I can dig up examples just as well as you can, but I’m not at my desk at the moment.

    The OP says “this site” and it looks like maybe Tumblr?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    So why is tumblr's issue our problem?

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  • [+] -8 points 1 month ago* (3 children)

    I can dig up examples just as well as you can, but I’m not at my desk at the moment.

    you should have done that before posting this screenshot out of context. If you're not willing to verify something is true, then don't repost it on social media.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    I didn't post the screenshot

    I'm not the OP

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  • [–] -4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    fine. The point stands though, OP should have provided context for this actually being an issue.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago

    It's really common for people to assume scientists are white men.

    A newly published University of Virginia study has found that about two-thirds of students in a third- through fifth-grade extracurricular astronomy program perceive scientists as white men in labs, mixing chemicals – even as women and people of color increasingly work as scientists.

    The study authors found that these perceptions persist even after elementary school students have been tutored under young female scientists in a program designed to increase understanding of and exposure to astronomy.

    Here's another study on it:

    We found that the scientist image was rated predominantly as White and male, which reflects stereotypes about who pursues scientific careers. The scientist image was also rated more negatively than the other CIs on several characteristics, which may indicate negative biases toward scientists as unsociable, poor communicators, and incompetent authority figures, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic.

    This isn't a made up phenomena just for social media. It really happens.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    I saw the article before but didn't read the details, if I had seen the name ending with an -a I would have thought a woman. But that's also probably because I knew a guy named Paolo.

    There is absolutely sexism as well as racism still lurking around in the average person's assumptions. Seems a connected world hasn't (yet) fixed that. Might take more time.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Oh. Well, if that's the whole story, then this is a pretty weak science meme

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (5 children)

    Eh there’s value in calling out sexist assumptions.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    I guess so, it just would be nice to see two people verbally sparring, instead of a one-person narrative about a supposed firestorm

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    It’s an old trope that people assume any scientist is a white man.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (2 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (9 children)
  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago (8 children)

    yes but what's all the "white guy" stuff?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    There’s a running assumption that the scientist that discovered this new cat species is a white guy. It’s not.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    on tumblr especially, there is a belief that science is essentially only a thing white european/american men do and they impose their vision of the world onto everyone, hence "discovering" a new cat species (which was actually known to locals since forever)

    it’s an understandable belief, given the very imperialist and colonialist history of science and the legacy that this leaves behind. but it also completely erases the many contributions to science from other people, like here, where the tilcayo was first formally described by a Bolivian woman, and named after the name local Indigenous people give to the cat

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    There’s a running assumption

    citation needed

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)
  • [–] 34 points 1 month ago

    At no point did I think of the scientists gender. I don’t think I ever have considered the gender of a scientist.

    Hell another cat could’ve discovered this cat and I’d never know until someone mentioned it.

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  • [–] 24 points 1 month ago

    And here I was imagining a diverse group of scientists, because science is rarely done by just one person anyway.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago

    Not only did I not assume that but this is also the first time I've stooped so low as to waste time discussing whether or not we think a scientist is a white guy based on their name.

    P.S. Has anybody ever in their life met a white guy named Paola?

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  • [–] 18 points 1 month ago
    [–] 31 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    For context on the original Tumblr post, which I know I reblogged but can't seem to find, was discourse surrounding the headlines saying we've "discovered" something that already existed, which in turn led to users generalizing these scientists as old white guys who don't respect where these discoveries are made.

    This other post I could find says it better than I.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    Have people been assuming they're a white guy?

    I can't even really think of a context when discussing the cat when the scientists gender and especially race would come up?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    I am normally pretty pessimistic, but can't imagine this either, like someone would say "did you hear about that new cat they found?" not "hey, did you hear about that new cat some white, straight, Christian guy found?"

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  • [–] 12 points 1 month ago

    The name is Paola not Paolo so that should have been a hint right there.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago (1 child)
  • [–] 28 points 1 month ago

    Holy fucking strawman

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I want to snuggle with the kitty.

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  • [–] [S] 8 points 1 month ago

    Thank you to those who tried to translate for the contextually bereft.

    I just thought it was cool to see a picure of the person who identified our new Babu.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago

    Pspspspspspspspspspspspsps

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Most biologist are women if I recall correctly.

    If someone talks me about a discovery in biology I think my mind would automatically picture a woman as the author.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

    What kind of white guy has a feminine Latina name?

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  • [–] 6 points 1 month ago*

    "Extreamly weird how many people I've seen assume she is a white guy"

    I thought she was a cat. That's what we were talking about. White? She is more of a yellow orange with tan to brown spots.

    /s

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    Then there's me, knowing about Mary Somerville, confused, because the word was invented to include women. The term before was 'man of science' and it so seemed inappropriate a term for Mary. Hence: 'scientist'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Somerville

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I'm trying, but where do I accent Ascarrunz? AscarRUnz or AscARrunz?

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago*

    If this turns out to be AI generated, I will be so upset!

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