OK, I'll bite. What spychip?
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I'm involved in a charity that also ends up with a good amount of computer donations. Unfortunately, we have to be ruthless with what we accept. We have to pay to dispose of ewaste.
In practice, laptops with a dual core processor or higher can be put to use or given a new home. Anything older is useless. We still need to sort through and thin out the numbers at that level however.
Unless you're willing to store the computers for them, until a unicorn comes in asking for one, it's likely a practicality issue. While it's far from perfect, it's required to keep shops like that functioning at all.
A better option might be to go to a retro gaming shop/cafe. They are more likely to stock old hardware to play older games natively. It's mostly consoles, but some also have PCs.
I’m involved in a charity that also ends up with a good amount of computer donations. Unfortunately, we have to be ruthless with what we accept. We have to pay to dispose of ewaste.
Charities paying for the e-waste is not universal. Depends on your local waste management. But nonetheless, when a machine is disposed of /someone/ must pay for it one way or another. It’s cheaper to actually use it.
In practice, laptops with a dual core processor or higher can be put to use or given a new home.
The pre-spychip AMDs have anywhere between 2 and 8 cores just before the last segment of 15h chips were made.
Unless you’re willing to store the computers for them, until a unicorn comes in asking for one, it’s likely a practicality issue.
It’s a marketing problem. Consumers don’t know to demand pre-spychip machines because they are wholly clueless about it. A charity shop can manufacture demand just by being transparent in their sales info.
A better option might be to go to a retro gaming shop/cafe. They are more likely to stock old hardware to play older games natively. It’s mostly consoles, but some also have PCs.
That’s a good idea. Either way, it requires an intervention in the status quo. In my region, the public is blocked from getting access to rejected hardware, which goes straight to the (apparently secret) disposal site.
Charities paying for the e-waste is not universal. Depends on your local waste management. But nonetheless, when a machine is disposed of /someone/ must pay for it one way or another. It’s cheaper to actually use it.
Your forgetting storage costs. The value of older computers often doesn't compare well with storage costs, particularly given the amount of time they sit there for. That's what does us in. We only have so much space, and dozens of computers can eat that quickly. It's similar with old monitors.
The pre-spychip AMDs have anywhere between 2 and 8 cores just before the last segment of 15h chips were made.
I wasn't sure where the cutoff was, in practice.
It’s a marketing problem. Consumers don’t know to demand pre-spychip machines because they are wholly clueless about it. A charity shop can manufacture demand just by being transparent in their sales info.
In practice, most can't. They don't have the reach to change people's views on the scale needed. They would also need to deal with people who didn't understand what they were buying. Older computers often need a bit of finessing to get the most out of. Sticking windoze 11 on them, and giving them out to OAPs or single mums is asking for very frustrated complaints.
That’s a good idea. Either way, it requires an intervention in the status quo. In my region, the public is blocked from getting access to rejected hardware, which goes straight to the (apparently secret) disposal site.
If you think it's viable, make a small business out of it. Tell the charity shops you will take the old laptops off their hands to repurpose them. Extra qudos to you, if you can mix and match to make, and donate a few "supercharged" computers that would be of use to their customers. Unfortunately I suspect the number of customers is too small however, and you would run into the same issues they do.
Your forgetting storage costs.
I can probably fit 100 old (thick) laptops in my closet. I doubt it’s a noteworthy cost for a shop to store ~6—12 laptops, which is comparable to the size of a single laser printer.
It’s similar with old monitors.
Ditch the CRTs but hold on to the LCDs. They will sell better once the market is saturated with this garbage.
In practice, most can’t. They don’t have the reach to change people’s views on the scale needed.
Hardware not traversing their shop is not in their scope. They can do something on the scale of their shop’s operation. It’s not their job to fix the world on a global scale. I’m fine with that. Doing their part is all anyone can expect.
They would also need to deal with people who didn’t understand what they were buying. Older computers often need a bit of finessing to get the most out of. Sticking windoze 11 on them, and giving them out to OAPs or single mums is asking for very frustrated complaints.
That’s a problem for sure. The charity shops tried -and failed- to sell linux machines. They went back to Windows. But that’s not the end of the story. The charity shops have connections with repair cafes and linux clubs, who are picking up the slack.
If you think it’s viable, make a small business out of it.
I’m not interested in profit. I might do a non-profit action. But it’s certainly a fight so far to just get the gov to reveal where the destruction factory is. Will need a substantial effort to get a position in the supply chain.
I totally share the desire for really cheap very old hardware. But is there any financial justification for a charity shop paying to stock it? Plus the energy cost to run it if you do buy it.
Then compare to the price tag of a pi zero.
But is there any financial justification for a charity shop paying to stock it?
There is financial justification if they can actually sell it. And of course not if they cannot sell it. We don’t get a crystal ball. It’s a judgement call to predict whether they can sell it. They have opted to be risk averse. The decision was likely made without awareness of pre-spychip characteristics and without considering whether it can be marketed as such. It would be interesting to know if a shop has actually tried that, which can confirm that pre-spychips don’t sell even when marketed as such.
One of the problems is that the shop cannot handle supporting the public on linux. Independent of hardware performance, they abandoned linux in the store and returned to only selling Windows machines. Their staff turnover was too high to keep training staff on giving linux support.
Plus the energy cost to run it if you do buy it.
Energy cost is the same. A 65w PSU that is pegged will draw 65 watts regardless of what it drives. If the hardware is not being heavily tasked and the platform is lean, then there is only a difference on responsiveness but not on energy. Furthermore, some of these pre-spy chips have a TDP of 17w, which is interesting enough that recent machines are still being produced with them:
https://cputronic.com/index.php/cpu/amd-a4-4355m
A 17w TDP means it’s efficient enough to be fanless, or to not need to spin a fan often. It’s foolish to let laptops with 17w APUs get tossed when the very same CPU is still going into modern laptops precisely because of their efficient /for the money/.
Some of the higher TDP chips from the same family are notoriously inefficient. So sellers and buyers need some awareness. In the worst case, an inefficient chip is not so inefficient in a cold region or cold season. We cannot say from 10,000 feet whether such instances would be inefficiently deployed when speaking independant of the regional climate.
Its not just about being able to sell it, but selling it for enough to justify the shelf space it takes up and how long it will be sat around waiting for it to sell.
Energy cost is the same. A 65w PSU that is pegged will draw 65 watts regardless of what it drives. If the hardware is not being heavily tasked and the platform is lean, then there is only a difference on responsiveness but not on energy.
I can't believe I'm saying this, and I'm aware of the potential for innuendo here, but I am going to have to ask what you mean by "pegging" a PSU.
A 65W PSU can supply at most 65W, but it doesn't "draw 65 watts regardless". It will draw less than max power if it is using less.
This can be easily verified by using a power meter on the outlet. I have machines with 90W and 25W PSUs drawing only 9W and 4W respectively at idle.
I can’t believe I’m saying this, and I’m aware of the potential for innuendo here, but I am going to have to ask what you mean by “pegging” a PSU.
A 65W PSU can supply at most 65W, but it doesn’t “draw 65 watts regardless”. It will draw less than max power if it is using less.
Yes, indeed. I think we have the same understanding.
Pegging means the appliance is drawing the max amount of current. As a PC becomes more efficient, the PSU does not shrink. It just gives more calculations for the same energy drawn. But if it’s mostly at idle doing basic tasks like web browsing, there isn’t a notable consumption difference. A 65W PSU was typical two decades ago, and also still today.
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