It is darkly hilarious russians can still enter the EU for tourism.
post
Good. Why are they allowed into the EU anyway?
To flee the terrorist dictatorship and give their workforce/money to the EU? People who are leaving the oppresive state deserve a chance for better life. Don't give an equal between the people and the state/government, please.
I've met these "Russian refugees" you speak of. They just don't want to fight the war, but they whole-heartedly support it. They come over completely brainwashed talking about how "the West is too LGBT and DEI", unable to see what that propaganda did to their country. If Pootin wasn't president there, they'd be praying to some other shitty God who tells them how the West is the enemy.
Russians shouldn't get VISAs, they should be classified as refugees and put into refugee camps where they learn the local language and have to learn what democracy is.
To flee the terrorist dictatorship and give their workforce/money to the EU?
On a tourist visa ? I don't think so.
You can't legally work on a tourist visa, and if you're only here for a holiday you're hardly fleeing the Putain dictatorship are you ? Just taking a pleasant break from it.
While you're at it, at least stop visa-free travel for israelis and US americans. Seems like a much bigger long-term threat.
They would never, because it's perfectly fine when their allies invade and genocide.
They have to uphold the "western supremacy values" somehow.
P.S. Putin is a war criminal and deserves horrible death. Calling out western hypocrisy doesn't mean I support an authoritarian parasite, feeding his own citizens to the meat grinder.
P.S. Putin is a war criminal and deserves horrible death. Calling out western hypocrisy doesn’t mean I support an authoritarian parasite, feeding his own citizens to the meat grinder.
Fully agreed. In fact I protested putin's regime when I was living in russia and had to flee because of that when the war started.
all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. no one deserves a horrible death. the hangings in Nürnberg were okay. (by which i don't want to imply that the russian crimes are anywhere near the germans' league.)
Israel? America? On a thread about Russia?
My friend your brain is cooked. Either that or you're working for them.
The thread is less about Russia and more about EU immigration policy.
Israel and US has been repeatedly shown to constantly spy on european elected officials and citizenry, and be a significant threat to child safety. Both are currently committing genocide of much greater proportions than what russia is doing in Ukraine.
It doesn't make sense to allow them to travel visa-free, with virtually no checks except matching the passport to its holder at the border, while banning russians to enter even after quite rigorous checks of the Schengen visa application process.
Wait, why are any tourist visas being granted to citizens of a country waging war on them?
If we're looking beyond the scope of potential spies and saboteurs, there are plenty of families, friends, and even just normal people who travel abroad. Being abroad opens them up to seeing things from a perspective outside the one that is controlled and even enforced within Russia.
Furthermore, ordinary people's view of EU (and other countries outside Russia) is part of many pieces of this conflict's puzzle: Money leaving Russia, people seeing good things in EU in contrast to their own country, and Kremlin being less able to make statements like "this country is showing hostility" or "See? EU only cares about itself".
And ultimately, we do not want to unnecessarily sour the international relations more than necessary, as it's required in a lot of ways for talks about resolutions both during and after the war. Kremlin might not care about this, given the things they do, but they're not looking very far ahead. If they did, they wouldn't wage war in the first place.
Germany has actually been on board with this for quite some time. The reason is simple: It's an easy way in and out of Russia with all pros and cons it has.
It allows people to move out of Russia, but it also allows Russian spies to enter (more easily). It causes Russia to (hopefully) be similarly permissive with visas, allowing journalists and also western spies to enter their country.
The problem only starts where Russia is much more aggressive in their actions than Europe, in other words actively exploiting the 'deal'.
Because some countries in the EU rely on tourism for their finances and do not want to risk reducing that income, even if it concerns only a small number or Russians. Those countries have so far blocked proposals to stop granting visas.
Meloni is on Putin's payroll.
Because granting tourism visas is the default. What advantage would be gained by not giving them tourism visas?
Having fewer Russians traveling to your country. It's not like Putin makes them get work visas when they're trying to sabotage shit.
Having fewer Russians traveling to your country.
And?
It's not like Putin makes them get work visas when they're trying to sabotage shit.
Maybe he does, but in any case that's not what I'm asking the parent commenter. My question is: Why would denying tourism visas to enemy civilians be, by default, a bad idea? Because that's what they're implying.
Who says they're all civilians? It's much easier for FSB or whomever to recruit Russians living in Russia as assets than foreigners, or Russians living abroad. Many of the Russians living abroad may support him but enjoy their lives too much to agree to endanger their comfy lives.
Who says they're all civilians?
Innocent until proven guilty, you tell me how many are FSB agents and the evidence that makes you think so.
It's wartime and they're people who aren't EU citizens, so they're not entitled to passage. Why should they be admitted?
Many stories you can read here and there's likely more that we don't even know about. Yes, there are already people in Europe who are likely to be sympathetic to Russia and there's not much to do about those people since forcibly deporting them to Russia without just cause would be inhumane, but why should we allow in more people that quite likely support Putin? He has pretty high approval rates after all.
You haven't answered my question. Quite literally no part of what you said affects the overall argument* (sabotage operations are almost all done by locals and so are irrelevant unless you can prove Russian tourist involvement).
*Just as a reminder, the original question was "what advantage would be gained by not giving them tourism visas?"
Considering overall economic and political situation of Russia, someone from there who can just casually afford/allow themselves a vacation in Europe and then come back, is almost certainly a person one should not let in. 🌝
Jfc they attempted to bomb civilian airports. State sponsored terrorism. Do everything you spineless fucks.
EU is fumbling response to this war from day 1. Always responding in the most calculated, spineless way. After 4 years they still didn't issue any meaningful red lines. Just look at this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_lines_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_war
NATO only announced two red lines with any consequences: "No murder and abduction of children" and "Not to interfere with civilian ships belonging to NATO countries in the Black Sea". Both crossed by 2023. That's it.
For fuck sake. Announce that any terrorist attack on infrastructure inside EU will mean immediate cancellation of all tourist visas for Russian citizens. Let Putin cross it. Why it's so hard for them to agree on things like that? I mean, I know why. Most of them don't give a shit and the rest supports Putin.
Meanwhile unto others... https://thecradle.co/articles-id/39755
all 59 comments