all 85 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] 163 points 2 months ago (1 child)

Stop. This is the exact argument the police used at a city board meeting I went to to protest FLOCK. This is basically saying "Flock is ok as long as used responsibly". It has not and cannot be used responsibly.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 32 points 2 months ago*

    So give me absolute power, I promise to use it responsibility so there shouldn't be any worries, right? One of our biggest strategic errors is constantly acting like we need them to agree with us before we act like we're right.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 78 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    The trump-epstein child sex trafficking ring is still running to this day as we speak and nobody gives a shit. Everyone wants to release the files but everyone is assuming it all stopped when only epstein and maxwell were arrested. There are thousands of johns and victims, it isn't going to stop because two people arrested.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 70 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    You can't arrest "missing children", lady.

  • source
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_E._King_Jr.

    This atrocity has been going on since at least the 80s, it would seem.

    The Franklin Coverup was a crazy read.

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago* (5 children)

    Your period fell outside the parentheses:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_E._King_Jr.

    I know, it gives me the heebie jeebies to end a URL with a period too.

    Edit: Oh, this looks like the editor also get the heebie jeebs; it's not you, it's lemmy.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (4 children)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_E._King_Jr.

    Set the URL as text for the link:

     [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_E._King_Jr.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_E._King_Jr.)
    
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    The hero we need.

    Edit: though maybe that's technically unethical. I don't use that style because I like people to see exactly what they're clicking on.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    As long as the links match, they are technically being shown more correct information that way.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    No, I get it, I'm just being an ethical poindexter: technically, you are sending them to a different link than the one they think they are being sent to, but, obviously, not a moral issue in this case.

    What is the difference between ethics and morals, anyways? Anybody?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 60 points 2 months ago (24 children)

    It's a fair point, but not really the example they want to make. 99.8% of missing children are safely recovered per the FBI.

  • source
  • hideshow 24 child comments
  • [–] 65 points 2 months ago* (2 children)

    Yeah, there's no way that many children are actually disappearing permanently per year - unless you include ICE abductions.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It counts one parent taking a child without the permission of the other, usually during nasty divorces and custody battles. Those get resolved easily but the kid is still counted as missing.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 13 points 2 months ago

    If they went to their friend's house and didn't tell their mom, they're counted as missing.

    If they went into the woods to get high, they're counted as missing.

    All that needs to happen is a parent freaks out and reports them as missing, and that happens really often because kids want their freedom. Or they just plain forgot to tell you, because forgetting stuff is something that kids do a lot, too.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    This is good they are found. What is concerning is why number is so high in the first place. Europe estimates are between 170 to 300 thousands

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago

    It's because a missing child is not the same as an abducted child.
    If you don't know where your child is, you tell the police. They radio the miscellaneous patrol cars and they inevitably find the six year old trying to walk somewhere silly within a few hours.
    That's a missing person report.
    Divorce going poorly. One parent thinks the other shouldn't get any custody. So they pick the kid up from school when it's not their turn and go to their parents house. That's a missing person and child abduction.

    Basically, it's a category error. We're All tracking the same things, but our huge category has the same name as their narrow one.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Apparently 90% of missing children are runaways. Maybe that is more common in the US or maybe it's just differences in counting (for example some countries might count 16 or 17 year olds as adults for these purposes).

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    It's cataloging differences. The EU number is by outcome, and the US is by how the report started.

    The US is saying there were 400k times someone was concerned about not knowing where a kid was for any reason. For the same "stereotyped kidnapping" category the US is roughly the same, with 50-400 per year depending on how you count them.

    More than ideal but not a public policy crisis.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    Yeah, this is actually an argument that QAnon uses. All of those missing children must have been kidnapped by Satanists trying to get their adrenochrome or something.

    What actually happens is the kid goes missing, the parent panics and calls the police...and then the kid shows up later, because they were off doing something that they forgot to tell their parents about (or didn't want to tell their parents about).

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago* (13 children)

    So that's still a couple of hundred missing a year?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 13 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    and that's an acceptable number

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 10 child comments
  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (9 children)

    No, it's not acceptable, it's just entirely fails to justify building a panopticon.

    Acceptable implies we don't need to do anything. I'd happily spend some tax dollars to try to bring it down.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    Presumably, a lot of the 0.2% are with a parent or family member who isn't supposed to have custody. I would imagine that in many cases the kids are being treated well. Just because a parent didn't get full custody in a divorce doesn't mean they're a bad parent, just that in court they couldn't prove that they deserved 100% custody. Kidnapping a kid is a radical step, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the kid is worse off than if they'd remained with the parent who was supposed to have custody at that time.

    Others are probably running away from a bad situation at home. It would be good to get them the help they need. But, it's likely that if you just spent more on looking for missing children, they'd simply be brought back home and have to live through whatever made them run away. Sometimes I'm sure the kids are better off at home, but other times they're running away from severe abuse.

    There's probably a tiny fraction that are kidnapped by strangers. Say it's only 1% of those that go missing and aren't returned. That's about 12 per year in a country of 350 million. How much extra tax would you be willing to pay (and force everyone else to pay) to reduce that by 1?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (7 children)

    Your math is off. You're starting with the number that already excludes things like non-custodial parents and runaways, wandered from care and so on.

    The 200-400 number represents the final total of lost or stranger abducted children children, not young adults.

    And that number is pretty good for a population of 350 million! It's also 300 children who have been kidnapped and likely face an unpleasant and grim fate.

    I would happily charge everyone in the country $0.05/child a year in additional funding to lower that number.
    We can keep it budget neutral by canceling a few fighter jets.

    Keeping people alive is an easy sell for tax dollars for me, particularly when it's an issue that would actually benefit from coordinated research and expertise. It being children speaks more to the priorities of humans than strict economic accounting, which is why I padded my figure by 80%.
    And that's before we even get to a progressive tax system shifting most of the cost towards people who can afford $30-$250 a year in additional taxes.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (5 children)

    You’re starting with the number that already excludes things like non-custodial parents and runaways, wandered from care and so on.

    No, that number includes non-custodial parents and runaways that are returned or come back. The ones who don't are part of the 0.2%.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (4 children)

    If they aren't recovered how do you know it was a non-custodial parent?
    I'm simply going by the statistics from the people who track those things and using their classification which says 200-400.

    I don't know that the specific categorical breakdown really changes my assessment of what I'd be trivially comfortable with paying and charging everyone.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    If they aren’t recovered how do you know it was a non-custodial parent?

    It's reasonable to assume that the mix of situations doesn't change too much. It would be unreasonable to assume that every run-away always returns / is returned, every non-custodial parent is always forced to return the child to the custodial parent. So, there will be run-aways and non-custodial parents in the group that are abducted.

    Where are you getting the idea that 200-400 are stranger-abducted?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    I'm not sure it's reasonable to assume that the distribution is the same between recovered and unrecovered children. Specifically because it ignores the circumstances observed by the reporting agency, and secondly because we tend to know where the non-custodial parent is.

    https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/304794.pdf

    I lost my initial source, but this one serves just as well. I had initially been looking at data from the doj and ncmec.

    Based on the NISMART-4 LES-SK, the number of stereotypically kidnapped children in the year from January 1, 2019, to December 31, 2019, likely fell between 52 and 306.

    The Missing Persons reports from the NCIC show stranger kidnappings trending from 384 to 322 in 2011 to 2019.

    This is from page 27-29 where discuss conclusions, statistics and data source quality (tldr: no significant change)

    So, again: I got them by doing a cursory search and then looking at criminal justice statistics.

    I'm not sure this has anything to do with the initial thing we were talking about anymore?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    Note how it says "This estimate includes episodes with a stranger or slight acquaintance perpetrator in which a child was moved at least 20 feet or held for at least 1 hour"

    Obviously a case where a child was moved only 20 feet, or held for less than a day belong in the 99.8% of cases where the child is returned. Even if the child is held for 1 month, that's going to be part of the 99.8% of cases where the child is returned. And, a kid would have to be moved much more than 20 feet to be missed by a search party. So, presumably the majority of "stereotypical kidnappings" result in the child being returned.

    What it has to do with what we were originally talking about is that the 0.2% that aren't returned aren't 100% "stereotypical kidnappings". The vast majority of that tiny minority are also a kid running away, or a kid with a non-custodial parent. Only a tiny fraction of that tiny fraction (so maybe in the single digits per year) are kids who are kidnapped by a stranger or slight acquaintance and who never return.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    Okay. This is entirely irrelevant to my point that you originally were replying to that I wouldn't call any number of missing children "acceptable", and that I would be perfectly fine spending money to bring the number lower.

    https://childfindofamerica.org/resources/facts-and-stats-missing-children/

    I'm okay with spending money to reduce the number of permanently missing, killed, long term abducted, or just about any outcome listed.

    Your assumption that different outcomes have the same composition as each other isn't founded.
    The very fact that the outcome was different is evidence of different conditions. Contextual evidence made investigators put it in whatever category they did, and I defer to them. Your breakdown ignores that the statistics already account for assumed runaways that never came home.

    This is all entirely distinct from the point, which was "there's no number of missing children that's 'okay', and it's okay to spend money to lower the number, and we can actually put together rational spending targets that make sense even for rare circumstances, and if our government isn't in the business of finding lost children then what's the point of any of it?"

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago

    How private jail system would profit from missing children?

    Private jails donate so much for campaigns, think about them

  • source
  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I never thought about this, but yes, this is an entirely new way of violating our rights, but good luck avoiding the ride to jail or possible death when they shoot you if you happen to do one small thing wrong, or are the wrong skin color.

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 18 points 2 months ago (8 children)

    That missing kid statistic seems weird to me. Like… what happens to these kids? Are they returned a few days later and then reported missing again? How can this number be so high?

  • source
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Half a million kids go missing?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    Yes but it's always the same kid. He is very disturbed.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    If I remember correctly it’s mostly kids that runaway get reported as missing and then are found within a day. Or it’s when one parent kidnaps the child. Basically custody battle stuff.

    A small number is actual kidnapping by strangers or trafficking.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    It's extremely misleading. It's every time parents call the cops because they can't find their kid. Many are resolved within hours. Almost all are resolved peacefully. If your kid is a habitual runaway each time you report they didn't go to school or come home counts as one. After kids being assholes the number 2 cause is non-custodial parents.

    About 1 in 10,000 aren't found or found alive. So 50 or 60 kids out of 84M that are under 18 at any given time are grabbed by predators or die whilst running away (hint OD)

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    Its seems weird because its probably made up, its the common rule of the internet - not everything is true.

    Edit: The lower bound is actually true for the USA, see other comments for explanation.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 29 points 2 months ago (12 children)

    I find that statistic concerning.. Mainly because its made-up, and its attempted exaggeration unnecessarily adds to the social panic.

  • source
  • hideshow 12 child comments
  • [–] 24 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    So I did a quick search because that number seemed absurd, even for a developing country like the US, and it's in the right ballpark, but according to the sources "most are found and returned to safety". Most are runaways (92%), and about a third of the remaining 8% are abductions by strangers (would work out to about 13000), and that is disturbing, if true.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    Most are runaways (92%)

    That point does make the figure a bit more plausible and logical in a sense. The problem is interpretation since majority of cases are fortunately short-time and quickly resolved.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (5 children)

    The missing children? That's not a made-up number...

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    So not only does 1/1000 of every Americans go missing every single year (that would be wild), and you're telling me it's all children? 600000 every single year?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    That’s just the number of missing child reports. The vast majority are teens who are gone for a couple of days without telling their parents where they’re at and are found and returned quickly (92-93%).

    A good portion of those reports are multiple reports for the same teenagers that repeatedly run off from home. Frequent runaway teens with 10 or more missing child reports make up 30% of all missing child reports each year. https://popcenter.asu.edu/node/37501

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    It's technically not. Someone else said 92% are found quickly. Runaways, parents don't know where their kid is, etc, its the number of "reports".

    But the other 8% are about 13k kids. Even that amount is kinda crazy tbh.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago

    Always remember that Warren v. District of Columbia and Castle Rock v. Gonzales that in the US the cops aren't there to serve and protect and always assume ACAB.

  • source
  • [–] 20 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    lmao, 500,000 kids per year

  • source
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    It's extremely misleading. It's every time parents call the cops because they can't find their kid. Many are resolved within hours. Almost all are resolved peacefully. If your kid is a habitual runaway each time you report they didn't go to school or come home counts as one. After kids being assholes the number 2 cause is non-custodial parents.

    About 1 in 10,000 aren't found or found alive. So 50 or 60 kids out of 84M that are under 18 at any given time are grabbed by predators or die whilst running away (hint OD)

  • source
  • hideshow 6 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago* (1 child)

    So what if most missing kids are resolved within hours?

    It does not negate the fact that cops are abusing flock. Also, okay 50 - 60 kids out of 84 million are grabbed by predators or die whilst running away, like you said, this abused technology should be used to help find them, all 460K of them reported missing every year in the US, including those that are resolved in hours instead of this type of authoritarian misuse.

    A overprotective mother calls in about a missing kid, cop does their damn job, doesn't abuse AI-assisted, authoritarian-enabling cameras to tell the mother within minutes to call their damn neighbor. Imagine that happening instead of this type of bullshit.

    But hey, you keep licking those boots.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • [+] -1 points 2 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago* (3 children)

    Its quite misleading

    It's not though. These are based on missing person reports. Just because they are found doesn't mean they aren't missing. If a child is missing for two weeks, and is found safe, does that mean they weren't missing? What's the difference between two weeks and two hours is a parent is missing their child? Just because you're a remarkably apathetic individual who doesn'tcare enough to how statistics of missing children works doesn't change how the statistics of missing children work.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    It is misleading. Literally every single person who shares the stat universally claims and believes that these kids are in the wind usually taken by pedos and child traffickers. I have never met a person who shared this stat who didn't believe this.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (1 child)

    If a child is reported missing, an official alert goes out for a missing child, and police are dispatched to keep a look out, it shouldn't matter if it takes 10 minutes, or 10 days.

    That's why most of the time there needs to be a deliberate amount of time between last seen and the report for a missing child goes out. More times than not when those missing kids are found quickly, it's because the alert went out and people and police were informed and were able to quickly locate them at a park or something.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
  • load more comments (-1 replies)
    [–] 6 points 2 months ago*

    But that's after ICE started the purge.

  • source
  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    Ya but we're not allowed to look for or put Flock cameras in Trump's basement... So we get to track stoners.

  • source
  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago

    America only cares about children when it’s sexually abusing them. Food for kids. Nope. Housing for kids. Nope. Caring for babies. Nope. But presidents and people raping children is just the American way. This country is so fucked. It deserves all the bad things.

  • source
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Ah, of course - we should point a Flock camera at every family home. Problem solved.

  • source
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Epstein files

  • source
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Is this a thing that happened or an imagined, but possible scenario?

  • source
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (1 child)
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    The fact they haven't even bothered with 1 "feel good story" where they find a lost kid is just a fuck you.

  • source