No. No you do not. You need to force your local governments to campaign for better public transport and infrastructure.

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[–] 32 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I think the most important thing to remember is that even if 100% of rural folks drive, that's still only 20% of the total population. The notion that transit doesn't work for them does not excuse failing to provide it for the other 80% that it would work for.

Saying "but whatabout my special-snowflake rural lifestyle" to attack transit in general is always dishonest concern trolling.

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  • [–] 19 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Not only that, but how many "rural lifestyle" people are actually living an urban lifestyle from a house in the countryside, enabled by heavily-subsidized roads into the city for all of their daily activities?

    That was certainly the case for the county road that my parents lived on for years. They, and their neighbors, would drive into the city every day for work, shopping, entertainment, et cetera. While it was a free county, why should we subsidize that choice?

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    You can definitely do public transit out in the country, but isn't the Netherlands one of the most densely-populated countries in the world?

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  • [–] 13 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    No, you can only do public transit in rural places inthe Netherlands if you go to a big hub city. If you have to go 3 towns over, you have to take a car, or be prepared to double or triple your travel time.

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  • [–] 16 points 3 months ago*

    If you have to go three towns over in rural NL the car may be the best option, but going by bike is a very close second.

    The busses in the NL are often mainly for transporting you to and from the city, though some provinces also offer halfway decent local connections.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago*

    Linking towns to nearby cities sounds like the job of an interurban (Short one or two car length light rail / trolly that makes one stop per town, traveling the countryside between each at grade and at relatively high speed), but almost nowhere has those anymore.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I grew up in county town Australia. I definitely noticed the lack of car, but I also got by fine without one.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    British empire colonies suffer from the settler land-race problem of sprawling takeover. When they talk about "rural", they don't know what it means as they're just referring to the sprawling frontiers of "homesteaders." Normal rural design is what you see in most of the rest of the world (and there is variation and some sprawl too.)

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  • [–] 9 points 3 months ago (17 children)

    Utter tripe.

    Where I live it's dozens of little villages scattered about here and there, with four sizable towns.

    Weaving public transport through all of those places is impractical.

    I can't function using public transport that'll take me an hour or two to get between appointments in different places when it's a fifteen minute drive.

    To get close to that you need so many buses running empty and so many routes it's insane.

    Maybe let local people decide what's right for them instead of making blanket proclamations for everyone and every place?

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  • [–] 15 points 3 months ago

    You don't need to bring car usage to zero. It's a win to bring it down.

    Maybe let local people decide what’s right for them instead of making blanket proclamations for everyone and every place?

    Local, non-expert, people are famously wrong. You'd have everything paved over for more parking if you listened to them.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    So, basically, you're living in a geographic area that's incompatible with your lifestyle, and it only works with taxpayer subsidies for the roads.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (4 children)

    Nah, lifestyle is well suited to the area.

    We have roads here older than every American country and traditions even older.

    The land and the people are one.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Then get rid of everything with an internal combustion engine and live like your ancestors did on that land, don't expect modernity to be delivered to you by truck while you live your stupid medieval peasant fantasy

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  • [–] -4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah we don't have trucks here. Except for a few industrial people so you're not making sense.

    Hands up anyone who thinks my ancestors had public transport?!

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago

    If you didn't pay for roads, but you wanted public transit, I don't see how that works.

    There's plenty of room to improve cities without having to bemoan that rural people are living wrong. About the only place I could see is making rural people switch over to intra-city transit instead of trying to have the cars wiork to get within a block of any given destination. That's probably about as far I think to inconvenience rural people to meaningfully improve things.

    Mass transit is only efficient if you have a density of people going the same way at the same time. A bus is only better when you have significant occupancy, and that's not going to happen in very low density living.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (8 children)

    You're getting downvoted because it's a fuckcars com, but you're not exactly wrong. Plus, I don't see how we could effectively get rid of cars without making everyone move to the cities.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    If they could run more busses with fewer stops, it wouldn't be a choice between driving yourself and getting to work on time. The only way they would or could run more busses is if people demand more public transit and public transit received more funding.

    It's a god damn catch-22. Public transit kinda sucks because it doesn't get enough funding, and it doesn't get enough funding because people think it sucks.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    That's very true.

    I think it's a failure of imagination that the people running things believe public transport should turn a profit.

    If it's run well, the economic benefits cover the costs indirectly.

    And still, there will be places where it isn't the right answer, that an optimised and popular public transport system can not cover enough for people to be done with cars.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago

    I think it's a failure of imagination that the people running things believe public transport should turn a profit.

    It's not a failure of imagination, it's deliberate sabotage. They don't want transit to work because they're classist and transit is egalitarian.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Im not sure about this. I live near a city with incredible public transit. metro trains run often and its a grid system with plenty of buses and the artierials run often connecting lines. Its affordable and a monthly pass costs less than mandatory liability insurance for a car. Lots of people do take it but lots of people also still have cars. Even in poor neighborhoods. There is just a wierd car brain in the us. My wife feels a car is freedom but all I see is a ball and chain around the ankle with costs and possibility of breakdown at any time. If im on a bus and it breaks down you get out and catch the next bus. public transit to me is the ultimate feeling of freedom.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I agree.

    Rural public transport could absolutely be way better, especially if it was viewed as a public service, not a business.

    There's plenty of places where even an optimised solution would mean cars aren't needed.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago

    Question is to cover rural communities as-is, do you and up practically replacing every car on the road with a bus? Bus is generally only better if you have significantly fewer of them to scale.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Ultimately, use the right tool for the task. Public transit is great for living ihe city, but if you work in servicing or out in the sticks, you're going to need a vehicle that carries stuff. Also, good luck getting fridge/freezer perishables home in time if you have a long walk/ride

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    I find it entertaining what people think is an issue with a car free life style. In reality transit oriented places make it much easier to have fresh produces at home. You can simply get them daily on your way home, by investing maybe 5-10 min extra (not travel time, for everything incl. shopping). You rarily need to go to a hypermarket and even then, cooler bags are a thing. So are shopping trolleys.

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