The term "male socialized" is mostly used to try to split trans and cis women appart. People that use this word basically use the logic men are bad, and they behave bad, and if one (trans) woman was treated as a man before they adopt that behaviour.

This is just a way to basically call trans people their Asigned gender at birth without really doing so.

People tried to "socialize" me as male a long time and guess what? It did not work. Like I was and still am a woman. The thing I rather say when talking about that concept is that people treated me as if I were male.

"Male socialized" is often just used as a euphamism for "manly mannish male man men" by transphobes. They're not that deep with it.

Trans women are women, period. No ifs, ands, or buts. Anything that tries to if, and, or but is almost always warped, uneducated, and deeply, insidiously bigoted, hateful, and ignorant.

For example, when you take hrt, you are literally changing your biology. There is no "average" that defines, there is no cut and dry in science, gender is a social construct, sex is a social construct, sexuality is a social construct, ethics is defined by morality which is defined by world view which is defined by all kinds of things but most often by people's religions, which is defined by bullshit self serving self protecting self perpetuating irrationality.

My rights to exist as I actually am are not defined by random person x's worldview and their fucked up rhetoric. Might doesn't make right, popular doesn't make right, buzzwords don't make right, cliques don't make right, being mean doesn't make right, billionaires don't make right, religion doesn't make right.

When somebody uses language to box people such as " a transfem" or "person who is socially male" or "biological male" (replace any of these with female) they are using deeply ignorant language. Sometimes trans people use it ironically, such as jokingly calling each other faggots or whatever, and I think that's problematic too in an obviously edgy way. But like other minorities who have been slured and collared by oppressors, using these terms is an expression of frustration over being called them. I think trans people need to stop using them right now because we aren't out of the woods, yet.

But when you hear those terms being used unironically, LISTEN. That's people telling you who they are: bastards, oppressors, ignorant.

Don't "they" a (trans) woman or a (trans) man. You can use gender ambiguous language for if you don't know or if the person is literally gender ambiguous like a nonbinary person. But if that person is expressing THEIR ACTUAL GENDER (not their "identity", because, remember, gender is a social construct and it is not based on whether or not you are sterile, or if you have breasts, what your chromosomes are (nobody fucking knows anyway), if you have a penis or vagina, how tall you are, if you have long hair or not, if you wear dresses, how wide or narrow your hips are, how big your head is, what shape your nose is, how wide or narrow your chin is, if you have facial hair or not, or even how hairy you are. Gender is gender, that's it.)... So if that person is expressing THEIR GENDER, you can start off with that pronoun. If you're unsure, ASK. And if they tell you, LISTEN, because that's what their gender means, that's who they ARE.

If people aren't following these, call them on it. Normal people go "oh, sorry", listen, and move on. Making mistakes is okay, we all make mistakes, even trans people - hell, the fact that some of us transition later in life IS a mistake. That means that before, we were also skullfucked by society into not knowing or understanding or repressing what really was. We are all learning together.

And if you call somebody on something and you start to smell the bullshit, well... There's a lot of bullshit. There's a lot of the same arguments coming up, time and again, over and over and over. It's awful. I actively hate it and I'm tired of it, which is why I don't speak out about it all the time. People get defensive and closed off, and right now in the world, the prevailing media and news and communication platforms and all of the money flowing to creators is ALL hyper conservative far right fascist racist billionaire money. Far right basically means Nazi. Because it is. Nazi was not alt right, it is just far right. It's what happens when nationalism evolves into believing racism, and frustrations turn into hate turn into ignorance evolves into bigotry, and that NA-ZI becomes the platform of society. Which is where a lot of the world is moving back to. Germans have a really specific definition of what a Nazi is, and take it very seriously, but that leaves them totally blind to the behaviors and traits that lead there. A lot of Germans didn't learn anything except Nazi = crime. But a lot of Germans, even now, are sounding the fucking alarms and panicking.

The vast majority of money and power (like 90%) in the USA is like this. That is a SCARY piece of information to know. And those in power are spreading the fundamental building blocks of their worldview in everything they touch. They don't need to do much more, because they KNOW that as long as people keep fighting civil rights and hurting each other over it, that fight will self-perpetuate, and people will turn to Nazi rhetoric because that's the seed that's planted. Capitalism, race is real, language, ways to think, nationalism, who is right and wrong.

We are not in a culture war.

We are in a Cold World War.

Not against nations. Against ideas of what we all are.

We have been in this war for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

And we are losing.

Sure! A meme is an amusing/interesting item/content that is spread widely online especially through social media platforms, such as Lemmy. These memes typically spread within a given digital culture in a quick lifecycle, but many memes have proven to be tenacious.

Also, it's unfalsifiable.

Well of course I'm biological, what else would I be? Synthetic?

Oh, those terms exist and can even have reasonable meaning, just not the one the transphobes think they do:

I am a biological woman: My metabolism runs on estrogen, my T is basically nothing, I have breasts and at some point in the future I'll even have a vagina. If I am to receive sex-dependent medical treatment I have to receive the female version, because that is just how my body works now.

What I'm saying is that the term can be useful in certain contexts, but the dividing line is not cis/trans but if anything what someone's hormones are doing, assuming that it even aligns with what is typical for one of the two peaks in a bimodal distribution (meaning that there are very much people who can easily be classified as “neither”).

But unless you are a biologist or directly engaging in medical treatment or research, it is just not a relevant thing.

Socialization refers to how other people raised and treated you. It doesn't refer to whether you strongly took to that socialization.

It's not that it is always an anti trans dog whistle, just that it's frequently used as one. When you see otherwise used that way, it causes PTSD when people use it innocuously. I still can't here "fren" without instantly being suspicious

You were raised "trans in denial". That's not the same thing as being raised as a cis person of your assigned gender, even though it may look like it from the outside.

Like I said elsewhere, it depends on how it is used. It isn't like the term is a dogwhistle in all circumstances.

Seriously. I was in fact male socialized. Maybe I didn't take to it as well as I would have if I wasn't trans or neurodivergent, but I can't deny I was male socialized. I don't see that as some permanent Mark of Cain upon my soul. But I was absolutely male socialized.

I agree that the term is mostly used to bully people. But to be fair, you're inventing your own definition for the word.

The definition you're using:

male socialization (n): the cultural conditioning produced by a patriarchal society

The standard definition:

male socialization (n): the cultural conditioning applied to those in society assigned male at birth

As far as usefulness, it does have actual positive use even in the trans community. Sure, some portion of the trans community doesn't care about passing, but most do. And if you're a binary trans person actually trying to be seen and treated by strangers as your gender, adjusting your behavior is part of this. Cis society expects men and women to behave differently. Boys and girls are raised differently to reflect this behavior.

And for a lot of trans people, a bit of deconstructing of their own male or female socialization is necessary if they want to integrate into a binary role in society. Even just simple things like how men are conditioned to take up space, while women are conditioned to take up less space. If you're a trans woman and you seek to blend into society, if you don't work on some of your male socialized behaviors, you're likely not going to be able to pass. Sure, some trans people just completely reject the socialization forced upon us, but most of us don't. Most of us absorbed a lot of our gendered socialization growing up as a survival mechanism. And for most trans people, deconstructing that socialization is part of transition.

Simple. They're not "male socialized", they're just an asshole.

I think overall it's healthier anyway to call these people jerks. While this is a characteristic of men who grew up in a society that prioritized them it's not exclusive to men, and there are plenty of exceptions. Which makes it kind of a bad turn of phrase right? So this behavior is not a result of an inherent trait, it's just a result of bad parenting and a bad environment which means both that they can change and it's clear that this behavior isn't just a descriptor, but simply unacceptable.

Also as this meme points out "male socialized" is used by people against trans women to signal that they don't actually see them as women which if no one bigoted is using it makes it much easier to call out when it happens.

Attributing these behaviors to "male socialization" let's people off the hook for their actions. This person may be weaponizing their masculine presentation to talk over and intimidate people but that's just not doable for trans women. You know who can and does do that? Trans men. I've regularly seen trans men do exactly as you described, but no one would say they're "male socialized". Trans men do that cause they're men and know they can benefit from it. So it's frankly just not an accurate way to describe this behavior AND it's a transmisogynistic dog whistle.

Also tbf enby doesn't inherently mean not man.

Not sure how they identify, but my elven nonbinary boiwife goes by he/they and still considers themself a man.

There may be a handful of trans women who've gotten good jobs pre-transitipn but they are less likely to keep them during transition. Also trans women make less then cis women on average. To say trans women have an advantage over cis women is just transmisogyny

Yeah its not like the phrase is meaningless. Pretending our childhood and socialization is indentical to cis women is nonsense.

Its not identical to cis men either though. Let alone individual nuance.