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[+] 130 points 3 months ago (14 children)
  • [–] 63 points 3 months ago (13 children)

    Yes. Also, there is zero, ZERO path to anything better through the Republocan party.

    There are plenty of ways to eventually get somewhere through the Dems. It may mean "suffing" alot of do nothing bull shit, but there are paths and ways.

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  • [–] 34 points 3 months ago (10 children)

    The fun part is, that the Republicans didn't even start out as a Maga cult party. They got infiltrated. Not just by rich people, but by people from all sorts of backgrounds, joining or voting for support. Nothing is stopping the left from doing the same with the Democrats. But for that to happen, they'd need to stop with the constant purity tests...

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  • [–] 21 points 3 months ago

    Nothing is stopping the left from doing the same

    Intellectual honesty. The left will say what they actually want, the alt-right will lie their way in. "I'm literally an anarchist" versus "oh I'm just a fiscal conservative".

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Progressives would have to vote in primaries first.

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    We pragmatic progressives are doing that right now

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    The MAGA cult is basically onky two groups.

    Fanatic idiots who cling to religious fantacy like its fact because they are too stupid to comprehend the world, this stupidity also fuels a shitload of racism and bigotry, for the same reason.

    And richblibertarian assholes who want to tear the world of regulation down to better allow them to rape the population and planet for maximum profits.

    The rich assholes figured out how to weaponize the idiots using fear to grest advantage. I used to feel a bit sorry for the idiot cult for being manipulated but they basically refused to ever change so fuck those people.

    Actual mainstream Democrats are not doing "purity tests", a lout, super left wing branch is. I am not saying they have bad wants and desires, and ultimately they are right on a lot of issues, and personally, I agree with them on a lot of issues, but they are loud, and a bit of a fringe part, and for the greater good, for now, can be mostly ignored.

    Mostly.

    They should NOT be ignored in favor of just, sliding more tonthe right. Like, just picking an issue, maybe there is a compromise on trans athletes, because it probably is tricky, but that doea not mean compromising on trans people ompletely, andletting it start to slide to other queer groups, which is starting to happen.

    The big lynchpin that feels like its brought up a lot is the Israel/Palestine war. Which is probably the stupidest one. Yes Israel sucks, and what they are doing to Palestime is very terrible, but hesus fuck you don't sacrifice the country and ultimately everyone else in the world to the fucking Fascists over it. Both sides are shit, and who fucking cares in the end.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Actual mainstream Democrats are not doing “purity tests”, a lout, super left wing branch is.

    Yeah, i'm not talking about democrats as a whole, they're not "left" from a European perspective, i was talking about those who are quite a bit further left of centre. The people who "taught the Dems a lesson" by *checks notes* hiding at home, writing performative bullshit on social media and are dogpiling on anyone who dares to cast a shadow of a doubt at their imaginary moral high ground. As i had the pleasure of experiencing first hand, when i dared to question the decision of some random US non-voter commenting on Bluesky...

    The point is, that pretty much every party can be changed from the inside, if people are persistent enough. Change never happens on its own. At least not for the better. And if you want to help people in other countries, you first need to make sure your own country stays safe. Sadly, the US is a two-party failed state, and in my opinion, the only realistic peaceful way to change that, is to join the lesser evil of the two parties and force the change from within. The other option is to just burn everything to the ground and start from the beginning.

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  • [–] 18 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    The real problem is that both parties have convinced most people that striving to change the voting system that produces the two-party system is pointless.

    As long as that system exists, this useless and polarizing debate won’t stop and evil and corruption will continue to flourish.

    The land of freedom, choice and competition doesn’t want freedom, choice and competition in its elections. Think about why that is.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago*

    We need to eliminate district-based Congressional representation.

    To my way of thinking, if you have 20 congressional seats to fill, and the statewide voter split is 40% Dem, 40% GOP, 5% Pirate, and 5% Ninja, we should be sending 1 Ninja, 1 Pirate, 9 Dems, and 9 GOPs to the senate. When Ninja and Pirate voters are spread throughout the state, any geographic map you draw is Gerrymandered with respect to those two smaller parties: They can never win a single seat, despite voter numbers indicating they should split two seats.

    Gerrymandering is inevitable so long as races are conducted within geographically-defined districts. No "independent" "non-partisan" commission can prevent gerrymandering. The best they can do is restrict specific forms favorable to the two major parties, while disenfranchising third parties and minority interests.

    Every congressional seat needs to be filled in a statewide election. That might mean that in the primary, we vote for how many seats that each party gets to fill, and in the general, voters in each party decide how to fill their own seats.

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  • [–] 30 points 3 months ago

    I vote so I can cancel out a maga vote

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  • [–] 31 points 3 months ago (19 children)

    Getting slapped and getting stabbed are both bad. But not equally bad.

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago (18 children)

    Voter: That guy's got a knife and he's coming for me! What do I do?

    D: Vote for me and I'll keep you safe!

    Voter: OK! Here I go... let's.... voooooooote!

    D: I win the election, thanks to everyone who donated to my campaign. This is a win for all of us, not just me.

    Voter: Ok, now take that guy's knife away.

    D: How dare you criticize me after my very tenuous and delicate victory!

    Voter: But he still has the knife and he's still coming for me.

    D: Donate $25 to my campaign for re-election and we'll stop the knife wielding maniacs!

    Voter: But you won already. Are you going to stop the knife wielding maniacs?

    D: We can't unless you vote D in the next election.

    Voter: But I voted D in this one, and you won, and he still has a knife

    R: Haha! I have won the next election. Here I come with my knife that no one took from me!

    D: How would we have lost?! It must be the voters' fault! Donate $25 to my campaign and we'll send out weird postcards saying that we'll know if you voted or not

    Voter: Well, getting slapped is not as bad as getting stabbed!

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  • [–] 14 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    To give some more specific examples:

    Liberal voters: We pay more for healthcare than anyone else! Can you use our money for Medicare for All?

    Politicians:

    Voters: Why have we been blockading Cuba since fucking 1962? Make it stop!!

    Politicians:

    Voters: Scientist are warning about climate change!! We need to take drastic measures!

    Politicians:

    Voters: ICE is killing people and racially profiling! It's a danger to us all and must be abolished!!

    Politicians:

    Voters: Stop killing brown people with our tax dollars! Pull support away from Israel!!

    Politicians:

    Leftists: I can no longer support the Democratic Party

    Liberal voters:

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago* (2 children)

    Withholding your vote only puts gasoline on the fire. Voting for something is not support, it is selecting from available paths and they are not of equal harm. The most important elections to vote in are primaries where you get to choose who you'll be choosing.

    Please note that voting should always be done in conjunction with civil protest and mutual support networks.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 child)

    Withholding your vote only puts gasoline on the fire.

    Can you say this to a Palestinian-American or Latin American with a straight face? The Democratic Party is still complicit in genocide abroad and refuses to accept abolition of Trump's personal white supremacy army. Several Democrats are implicated in the Epstein Files and their colleagues are covering for them. If you don't think these are the appropriate lines in the sand to draw, then the line doesn't exist. The "lesser evil" rhetoric will justify anything.

    ...civil protest and mutual support networks

    We should all be joining leftists organizations, anti-capitalist reading groups, mutual aid groups, workers unions, tenants unions, self-defense groups, community gardens, and real grassroots communities built on trust. Such communities will form the foundation for future protests, boycotts, workers strikes, renters strikes, and, if necessary, civil disobedience. That is the only way the American people can regain control at this point.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Look at the data. Under Trump, Gaza got an embassy move, funding cuts to UNRWA, and open talk of annexation. Under Biden, it got bombs,but also pauses, pushback, and at least some rhetorical distance. That's not enough. It's nowhere near enough. But it's less. Same with Iran, Trump tore up the JCPOA and maxed sanctions; Biden at least kept diplomacy open. Same with SNAP, Trump gutted it; Biden restored some of it.

    I'm not asking you to recognize this scale as legitimate. I'm saying it's the scale that actually exists and the difference is real.

    The absence of your vote doesn't punish them, it hands the keys to the people who will do worse, faster, to the communities you're trying to protect. You want to build mutual aid and unions? So do I. But those need time and cover to grow. One administration gives you more of both than the other.

    Being morally pure does absolutely nothing for the people lives that get actively worse.

    While we do that we need to also work in primaries to get people into Congress that will apply pressure for change because if you look at any actual societal progress we've had it's been civil action in tandem with political pressure.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (12 children)

    My point stands. D taking your vote and your donation while not doing anything is still less bad than R actively stubbing you with his knife.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (11 children)

    LOL. And the good cop giving you a coffee with a gentle tone of voice is better than the bad cop screaming at you. The D is literally watching the guy with the knife and going "whatever" and you think they're on your side?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (10 children)

    as an immigrant, can you guys please not vote for me to get stabbed?

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    Sorry, the best we can do is vote for people who will stab you or people who won't stop the people who will stab you. As it turns out, voting isn't how we avoid getting stabbed. Who knew!?

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    R can only stab when if elected. While D holds office, R may get to keep his knife but actually stabbing is a felony. Once R is in office, it is perfectly legal for him to stab and he can thus do much more stubbing. He also gets to direct federal funding toward stabbing.

    Voting is what keeps R away out of office. Voting prevents stabbing.

    These are some very complicated concepts, so let me draw you a diagram:

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago* (6 children)

    Have you ever seen an R go to jail while Ds are in office? Again. The Ds share in the bipartisan consensus to give military surplus to the police, they are fine with cop cities, they are fine with bombing brown people into oblivion, they are fine with couping other governments. They are always an accomplice to the stabbings. Keeping Rs out of office, which you mathematicallly cannot reasonably rely on, will do nothing to stop the stabbings.

    The research across decades has shown no reduction of police violence under Democrats and no increase under Republicans. The research has shown corporate profits are higher under Ds than under Rs. Stop believing your bullshit flowchart. It doesn't match reality.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    The research across decades has shown no reduction of police violence under Democrats and no increase under Republicans.

    I assume said research does not include current ICE activities?

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (4 children)

    Again, Obama created the conditions that we are currently in. He overhauled DHS and ICE, ballooned their headcount and budget, created the policy framework to allow them to be deployed in cities around the country, and appointed Homan as the head of it all. Under Obama, 3M people were deported. Under Trump, he just hit 1.5M. And Homan was Trump's deportation czar for BOTH of his terms.

    And again, Biden participated in the policy creation under Obama, and when he saw what Trump was doing, he took office and did NOTHING to change the policies. All he did was use his prerogative to not deploy them in this manner. He LITERALLY saw Trump with a knife and shrugged.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Obama deported a lot, and violated due process, but it's still not as bad as Trump's deportations because the deportees were released at the countries they were deported at - which sucks if said country is an active war zone, yes, but still not as bad as being sent to a prison like the one in El Salvador where not even SCOTUS can retrieve them.

    Evil? Yes. As evil as Trump? no.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    Just so we're clear, you're saying that the absolute best we can do is vote for people who will deport 3 million people, many to active war zones that we created, and create the policy structures required for other leaders to deploy unaccountable paramilitary forces to terrorize the domestic population and the alternative is voting for people who will use those policies to deploy unaccountable paramilitary forces to terrorize the domestic population? That's the choice? And you think that's proof that voting works?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (1 child)

    the absolute best

    Not the absolute best you can do in general - just the absolute best you can do with your right to vote.

    The Two Party System means that either the Democrats' candidate becomes the president or the Republicans' candidate becomes the president - it's effectively impossible for a third party candidate to win, and the presidential power of the elected candidate does not get diminished just because less people voted in total. This means that if one candidate is more evil than the other - then the less evil candidate winning is the best possible outcome (out of only two possible outcomes) of the elections.

    This does not mean that you can't do better in general. Just that whatever you do better is orthogonal to voting. If you are working on a mini black hole that you plan to unleash in Washington to erase the entire government thus eliminating all its evil, then on voting day you go and vote for the lesser evil and then go back to your garage and continue working on your singularity bomb. After voting. Because voting does impact - even if it can't magically fix anything - and voting does not hinder your ability to influence in more impactful ways.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Just that whatever you do better is orthogonal to voting

    That's what I'm saying.

    then on voting day you go and vote for the lesser evil

    But we already established that the choice is:

    vote for people who will deport 3 million people, many to active war zones that we created, and create the policy structures required for other leaders to deploy unaccountable paramilitary forces to terrorize the domestic population and the alternative is voting for people who will use those policies to deploy unaccountable paramilitary forces to terrorize the domestic population

    So exactly what does lesser evil voting impact? Tom Homan remains the deportation czar regardless. Deportations go up. Bombings go up. Genocides are maintained. Cultural erasure is maintained. White supremacy is maintained. Police become more militarized and more unhindered by policy. Corporate profits continue to grow and concentrate wealth. Cops continue to kill black people with impunity. Ecocide continues unabated. The military budget continues to grow. Police budgets continue to grow. The carceral system continues to be the largest in the world by a factor of 3 and heavily racially biased. Pedophiles continue to thrive in public life. Military and state propaganda continue to stream 24/7. Monopolies continue to run the economy. Bailouts continue to protect the elite.

    What exactly does voting impact?

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago

    that's unfortunate, but in this case, if it were up to me (I know it isn't), I'd pick the ones who won't stop the stabbing over the ones who will do the stabbing.

    I don't wanna be selfish though. It's your choice, not mine. It only impacts me.

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  • [–] 37 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    Okay, but there's a difference between "both sides are bad" and valid criticism of the democratic party.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (6 children)

    Exactly. Only fight the Democrats 364 days a year.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (3 children)

    How delightfully reductionist. Though essentially, yes. Our system of elections is antiquated and should be changed, but until it is, voting how you WISH the system functions instead of how it actually functions is working against your own interests.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago* (2 children)

    To side-step the electorialism conversation a bit: Americans need to take a page out of the French handbook. Civil engagement should not begin and end at voting.

    We should be joining leftists organizations, anti-capitalist reading groups, mutual aid groups, workers unions, tenants unions, self-defense groups, community gardens, and real grassroots communities built on trust. These will form the foundation for future protests, boycotts, workers strikes, renters strikes, and, if necessary, civil disobedience. The workers of America have become so anemic that our politicians no longer fear us.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    We were trained how to protest, and the history of protest, wrong on purpose. Our cities were atomized which happens to make quelling, compartmentalizing, and hiding unrest much easier. We would be doing great if we were simply anemic. If I had to put numbers to the current landscape: 1/3 anemic, 1/3 actively supporting their own oppression, 9/30 concerned but confidently doing the wrong things to solve their problems, 1/30 pretty much fucked.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

    Our cities were atomized which happens to make quelling, compartmentalizing, and hiding unrest much easier. We would be doing great if we were simply anemic.

    On a personal note, I've been to several protests where (it feels as though) the only people who are watching us are the police on the ground and the drones in the sky. We march down the approved path, which has been sectioned off from the rest of the city, and yell about various issues. Then we all go back to work on Monday. Pretty demoralizing at times but it's better than being terminally online.

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  • [–] 40 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    40 plus years of neo liberal policy, that yes have been embraced by 'both sides', has been destroying the nation and for some reason people don't want to admit it.

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  • [–] 7 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    Which side thinks that food, medicine, and shelter are a human right and not just access to them is a right? I'll always vote for that side.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (3 children)

    Funny that they think it and never do anything to implement it.

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    Because the ones who refuse to are the corporatocrats, corpo “centrists”

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    I'm convinced the call is coming from the inside. Hillary was the most qualified person to ever run for President, but the least electable. She has the charisma of a rattlesnake. Kamala - C'mon people - electing a half-black guy was what made every Southern blue state flip red. I don't like it, but facts are facts. Could we have a white guy in a suit for a little while until we recover a little bit of our country? Preferably someone under 70.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago

    If the States didn't have a system that makes voting third-party an effectively wasted vote, this strategy wouldn't be as overwhelming.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Posts about blaming a minuscule minority of voters are specifically designed to encourage people to not look for the causes of rising fascism.

    Keeping people distracted and attacking their socialists allies is the only way Democrats can continue to move further to the right and join Trump's new "War on the Extreme Left".

    If you don't see the connection, you have a problem.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

    Yes, but the Democratic Party can be forced into becoming more left leaning and more progressive via primaries

    More progressives and democratic socialists are winning primaries and elections

    The corpo “centrists” are losing

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago

    Women's Suffrage was won without voting. Civil Rights was won with turnout among black people between 25% and 7% per state. It's not voting that moves things in the right direction.

    And remember. Both the Ds and the Rs had to give ground to prevent the civil rights movement from getting out of their control. As soon as they had it appeased, both the Ds and Rs co-architected the war on drugs and heavy "anti-crime" work to criminalize black people. It's not a coincidence that prison population skyrocketed immediately after the civil rights era, targeted black people primarily, and haven't come down since regardless of who is in office.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    Corpos aren't loosing, they are growing in power with rising wealth inequality. Money is power. Think of every dollar they have at their disposal as a tiny little soldier running around and whispering in people's ears. They are backed by itty bitty generals who are the smartest people on the planet, paid the highest wages to come up with the best most foolprofest brainwash / propaganda / public relation / talking points / advertising imaginable to manipulate people. You think you have a chance against that??? Is this fucking Sparta, three hundred vs one billion?

    Even more money can be poured into elections now. You don't even have time to protest because you don't have the money. Any they long figured out how to game protests to make them harmless anyway.

    Look at how the dems gamed the system to prevent a Sanders presidency. Not even a lukewarm social democrat could they allow against Trump. And Obama, the corporatist of dem all is still being worshiped. Every time I see posts blaming this small faction or the other for the second Trump presidency I cringe. It's like you're in a prison for your mind. The election shouldn't even have been close. No, Trump should have been in jail. Put the blame where it fucking belongs.

    YOU DO NOT LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY. People do not even know what is real and what isn't any more. The only good thing is that their laws and state violence are illegitimate, and you are under no moral obligation to follow them anymore, except self preservation. Zeroth law of robotics is in full effect. Civil disobedience or whatever. Organize locally and offline.

    PS: Sorry for the rant. Sucks to live in interesting times.

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  • [–] 20 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    The largest non-voting registered group in the 2024 election were those associated with neither party: independents and unaffiliated voters.

    About a quarter of eligible voters aren't even registered on top of that.

    "Both sides are bad" statements aren't necessarily driving partisans to not vote. They are, or can be however, an important message for those two big parties running the elections to hear from the people.

    It's also, possibly one of the few talking points that forces acknowledgement that those independent, unaffiliated, and unregistered voters exist and whose interests might matter towards the outcome of policy and/or elections.

    But yes, the interests that align with at least the GOP are furthered when votes are suppressed, that has been demonstrably true for decades.

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    What if people are unaffiliated or unregistered because they believe both sides are bad?

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  • [–] 5 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    Then the posts aren't encouraging them to change any behavior. This premise only works if you have partisan voters deciding not to vote because of the Both-Sidesism.

    If it is the default case that a party already does not have the any votes of the largest mass of voters, then the parties should focus on gaining their support.

    But also: more libertarians protested the GOP over Both-Sidesism than leftists, so technically it still had a net benefit effect for Harris. Which further demonstrates how flawed the whole premise is.

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    I don't really follow.

    We're not talking about well informed Lemmy users weighing the policies of candidates and deciding to abstain from voting because Gaza.

    We're talking about apathetic low information voters looking for an excuse not to get off the couch on polling day.

    "Both sides" is the classic strategy to keep these voters on the couch.

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago

    We're not talking about well informed Lemmy users weighing the policies of candidates and deciding to abstain from voting because Gaza.

    We're talking about apathetic low information voters looking for an excuse not to get off the couch on polling day.

    I guess, though a meme on Lemmy talking about social media posts would have me leaning to the former than the latter. I would wager, in fact, this meme is very strongly directed at Lemmy users who weigh policy.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    Wait are you legitimately claiming that both sides rhetoric doesn't discourage voter turn out? Do you have literally any evidence to support that claim?

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago

    I don't know about 'discourage' since I was referring to protest 3rd party votes. But too many people didn't even know Biden dropped out to suggest the rhetoric was causing meaningful influence.

    Now, I do know that RFK and Chase Oliver together took more votes (~0.9%) than the Greens and PSL combined (~0.7%). So as far as protest votes over Both-Sideism likely went it probably didn't hurt Harris, and may have actually been a net gain for Harris.

    The entire combined third party vote would have had to pretty much 100% gone for Harris for the Democratic Party to have won the popular vote (which is still irrelevant because of the electoral college.)

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  • [–] -1 points 3 months ago

    Hard truth. Nobody gives a fuck about those voters. If they are mad and decide not to vote for whatever reason a decision will still be made without their input.

    Witholding your vote will not stop the process and will actively Help the worst elements of each party.

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  • [–] 25 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (17 children)

    votes third party

    No not like that

    Seriously though, I think it's important to confront and admit that voting for the lesser evil does legitimize the evil they do, even if the greater evil does it worse. Because critically digesting both that fact alongside the fact that voting for the lesser evil really does result in better outcomes for society is what will actually get the hesitant on board with going and doing it. If you try to dismiss or handwave that fact, you are dismissing and handwaving the very real concerns of the disillusioned non-participants. Acknowledging the dissonance is far better.

    I think it's also important to point out that while direct action and social organizing are the most effective things things you can do to change society, they are incredibly time consuming while voting usually takes 5 - 30 minutes. And if you're actually interested in the former, there's little to no excuse to avoid the latter.

    Just whatever you do, don't shame people for being disillusioned. That makes people really dig in their heels.

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  • [–] 10 points 3 months ago (9 children)

    Is this outcome today from everyone supporting third parties over and over, or from everyone voting lesser evil over and over?

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  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (7 children)

    Its from more people voting on the right than people voting on the left.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago* (6 children)

    And how does voting green alter that dicotomy for the better.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

    The only people in favor of the spoiler effect want Republicans to win.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 months ago (5 children)

    voting for the lesser evil really does result in better outcomes for society

    Not when the Lesser Evil gets progressively more evil over time to try and pull votes from the Greater Evil camp. They have no incentive to implement any policies you're in favor of as long as they have your guaranteed support. If the next Democrat promises to be as worthless as the last one, don't vote for them.

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  • [–] 0 points 3 months ago* (4 children)

    It actually does, even considering that. That's just how bad the greater evil party is. There's a lot of space for the lesser evil party in their wake. But yes it does get worse overall either way. That's why while voting is important, you really should be doing something beyond that as well, if you really care. And if you really care enough to do something beyond that, then merely voting should be trivial for you to manage.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

    Not in the long run. "Vote blue no matter who" is how we end up in 2036, with the republican on the ballot promising to execute all trans people, and the democrat promising to merely jail them.

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago (2 children)

    Agreed, not in the long run. Voting is like stop the bleed on a traumatic injury. It'll keep you alive in the short term so you can get more comprehensive care.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 months ago (1 child)

    So if you know that it's harmful in the long term, then when will you stop voting for the lesser evil?

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  • [–] 1 point 3 months ago

    When the organizing and fighting that that you do beyond voting finally pays off. Like back to the analogy, if a wound is all dressed and banaged and healing, you no longer have to worry about stop the bleed.

    Realisticay though, for the rest of your life. Because these are very large social moves that typically happen over generations. Unless you're the next Che Guavara or something. In which case hell yeah go you.

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