Te be fair, Troy McClure stopped appearing after his voice actor was killed.
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Lisa Miller is in the latest Scott Pilgrim game.
I haven’t watched the Simpsons in SOOOOO long. They really benched Apu?
The voice actor maybe felt bad about being a white guy reinforcing indian stereotypes, or maybe felt pressured, but either way decided that he wasn't going to voice him anymore, and they decided not to replace him and instead just never give Apu a line again.
Thanks. Not replacing him was an odd choice, though.
not so much; the topic had kind of become a whole thing within the comedy/entertainment circuit on account of Hari Kondabolu making a documentary about it.
It was a detailed and nuanced discussion about the wider nature of invisible racism, and therefore attracted a ton of kneejerk reactions from people who hadn't watched it but sure as hell had opinions (edit: oh look, after I wrote that, one of them showed up in the comments lol). In the end it was just easier to let it lie than get tied up in an intractable discussion on whether an Indian person playing up an Indian stereotype for the entertainment of a mainstream audience is still harmful or not
Yep. And Hank Azaria has a fuckton of other characters to voice, and there's a huge universe, so no Apu isn't really a show killing problem.
no Apu isn’t really a show killing problem
Can’t say the same about the writing tho 😅
FORREAL
I just... sometimes reel when thinking about how long it's been really bad.... like, phoned in, then joked about phoning it in, then cozyed into how lazy it could all be.... imho makes a great argument nothing should last 10+ seasons
Writing the show while various groups without any sense of humor move goalposts around is what killed the show. Make no mistake, it may still airing, but it's been garbage for a long time.
while various groups without any sense of humor move goalposts
aw did someone ick your yum? did someone say "hey that's racist as fuck" and were right, so society moved on and it left you back in the 70s rofls?
various groups without any sense of humor... jfc...
oops looks like we found the people left behind.
Let Brockmire take over the Quicky Mart...
Yeah, all those stereotypes of Indian people being successful business owners, loving husbands, dedicated fathers, and all around decent folks really give the wrong idea about Indian people.
Watching this video made me realise that benching Apu was a mistake. Because as a character, he is not punched down on, he is reliably one of the more considerate and nuanced characters in the show. He's not a Cletus-like character, and the jokes about his Indian heritage are not mean spirited.
Did you watch the documentary itself, or did you just watch that 45 minute takedown of it presented by a white guy wearing USA flag shorts telling us why he thinks Hari Kondabolu doesn't understand racism?
I did watch the docco, and unfortunately it doesn't really make it's case coherently or entertainingly. That's pretty bad because the creator is meant to be a comedian, and he really should have been able to ruin Shearer's career but he's just not all that great.
As for Apu, the reason he sucks is that he started as a caricature but somehow ended up a main character, and the creators have kind of painted themselves in a corner. Is he meant to be a wacky stereotype like the Italian chef, or are we meant to have pathos, like Skinner? Add that to the fact that there just aren't many Indians on screen, and you have Apu as mostly the only Indian representation on TV.
It's anachronistic, orientalist, and just a bit lame to do jokes like that. Heck, it was lame when they created the character, that's why the specific note was not to make him Indian, but Shearer did it anyway.
Evidently you dont know Max, he is very self aware, and is a leftist.
That character you see there on the screen isn't an animated version of himself, it's a character - he's far more pityful than the real Max, and references in this video how his own appearance is going to trigger judgement, as he looks like a skinhead.
In any case, I don't need to watch the documentary fully, if its ideas are represented fairly, right?
So, then, does it present the ideas of the documentary fairly?
Because you are inferring it doesn't, even though you likely haven't watched the video I posted.
As much as I think Apu is a fine character, hotdiggedydemon went alt-right culture wars a long time ago.
I must've missed this? What has he said which made you think about him like this?
His "eat the rich" video was enough. Honestly, I never liked his old pony.mov videos either. He always seemed like an ironic mlp fan.
These videos are examples of his alt-right membership?
Also, what do you think the Eat The Rich video means exactly?
I was there when those pony videos were made. They always seemed more meanspirited than I cared for, but I didn't think too much of it at the time. Definitely Ren and Stimpy coded.
His Eat The Rich video is a tired strawmen of leftists. Unless that's a specific person, which it does a piss poor job of convoying, it's a broad generalization of everyone on the left calling for political change.
Even if I was going to take everything you say as gospel, that doesn't make him alt-right. You shouldn't go around accusing people of being fascists when they aren't.
Also, yes, they are Ren and Stimpy coded? Max has a deep appreciation for the artistry of cartoons, much like Egoraptor. Do you understand what the internet was like 14 years ago? It was far edgier than it is now. It says nothing about a persons political affiliation unless they make it aparent.
And I don't consider the Eat the Rich video a strawman of leftists. I believe it's a commentary on people like Hassan Piker, who talk a big game about communist ideology while living in a mansion.
Conversely, it's an allegory about how money corrupts.
Yes, I was there 15 years ago. You should have seen it 25 years ago.
Ren and Stimpy's creator didn't exactly age well either. Honestly, he was only really funny when he was pushing against boundaries. Once he had free reign, it was just gross out stuff.
I disagree with your interpretation of Eat the Rich. If that was supposed to be Hasan specifically, he could have made it more obvious. It's still an overly simplistic depiction of an idea.
I think its great you mention Ren and Stimpy, because I'd love to show you what Max thinks about the alt-right, while USING Ren and Stimpy as a platform.
Also, you want to talk about leftist stereotypes, how about "everyone I don't like it literally Hitler"
You just did that one.
And... I didn't say it WAS Hassan, I said it was people LIKE Hassan.
Kricfalusi is also a groomer, so whatever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kricfalusi
Also, I never called diggty a fascist or a Nazi. I called him alt right because he's making videos catering to the alt right. If it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
I asked you why you thought he was alt right, and you gave me two videos which didn't prove shit.
I don't give a fuck about what the creator of Ren and Stimpy did, it isn't relevant at all.
The alt right are white nationalists by definition, aka, fascists.
You don't know the the fuck you're talking about, so you probably shouldn't be accusing someone of being a white nationalist (alt-right) when they advocate for immigrant rights.
I've seen this pattern before. Too many times. I stuck with AvE when he was only making "i'm a dumb hick who doesn't understand trans people" jokes and he would eventually just out right support the Trucker's "Protest" and teach his daughter racial slurs. That odd friend of a friend who likes Russia a little too much and is confidant that they'll win, but totally isn't routing for the.
What hotdiggedydemon is doing is making videos about wedge issues. Things that are somewhat mild or somewhat split in the left leaning crowds. Not so much in the right crowds. His old pony vids aren't political, but they are cynical and I side eyed him at the time, but quickly forgot about it. It took about ten years before he would reenter my radar with his Eat The Rich video for the phase that youtube was pushing content popular with right wingers at me. That video has one hundred percent appeal to right wingers with it's generalization to that crowd. There's a lot of people on the left who don't trust the left wing pundits, but only the right ringers are making videos about the. Right now, there are much bigger issues then some strawman of a left wing pundits. What that video signals to me is someone slowly testing the waters with how political he thinks he can get away with. At best, he's a useless centrist making noise about how he's angry things are changing. At worse, he's alt right and he's following a pattern I've seen too many times before.
The next video I see is him complaining about Apu being removed from Simpsons, which is another one of those issues that has split options on the left, but the right is pretty united on. Which audience do you think I think he's catering to?
Who's in the red sweatshirt?
What are you talking about. Apu's right there. Ice got him.
Who is the handsome cat?
Not sure if serious or not, it's Pepé le Pew. He's a rapey skunk and French stereotype (but I repeat myself).
For anybody not familiar, he was a Loony Tune. His gimmick was he would fall helplessly in love with any black cat who happened to get white paint on her (or possibly his, not here to judge) back.
Pepé was very...self-imposing. To put it mildly. He would not last long in a "No means no" world.
But I'd never thought it'd be 1am, and I'd be a 41 year old man proactively explaining horny skunks to kids on the internet who have never experienced it first hand.
I just thought about the whole pepe thing last week and i don't really get it to be honest. I loved looney tunes as a kid, don't really care for it now, and have no reason to defend pepe at all. But ifeel like removing him was just a weak ass attempt to pretend to be the good guys. He was certainty problematic and all, but that was the whole point. He was never the good guy, or the funny guy. Even as a child i realised that he was scummy and odd. I'm oly going off memory here from a show i watched over 30 years ago, but he was never really endorsed or bugs bunny never told him that he's cool and he ahould just continue to force himaelf on that cat. He was a caricature of a slimebag that probably every girl and woman at least once in their lifetime encounters. Removing him is just like saying these people don't exist, don't worry. I know it's not that deep, but to me it feels like when they removed the D&D episode from community where señor chan painted his face black because he was a dark elf and then felt good about themselves because they solved racism.
Imagine being a little girl growing up watching that. The message is that someone sexually harassing you and refusing to take a “no” is common and normal. Just an annoyance.
Back then it was common, and if not normal in all places, certainly something everyone just had to "deal with". However, even some people pushed back against it.
Unfortunately a major political movement is normalizing it again now. Probably better to remember the trope and discuss it rather than bury it. But, it's a kids show, so it doesn't need to be in the rotation in every kid's constantly running digital baby sitter I suppose.
Probably better to remember the trope and discuss it rather than bury it.
I think the way to do that is have it called out on the show. Model that kind of good bystander behavior.
Like, right now we have a president that has raped multiple women and children. His appointees and cronies have also raped women and children. It’s critical to be talking to kids about consent.
I want to believe a kid isn't so dumb, but its also possible a boy see it and goes
"Oh wouldn't it be funny to act like this to my crush?"
Which just reinforces the whole cycle.
Yes, kids are constant emulators, if anything. Except terrible speed and accuracy. Lots of glitches.
Sometimes surprising results though. My kid somehow memorized the lyrics to the SSBU song. I thought they were in Japanese until he sung it...but my ears suck especially at her pitch and with her style.
The truth is, he just wasn't that popular of a character. He had literally one gimmick and it got old, fast. I don't think I ever heard anyone say he was their favorite. People skipped his episodes so they needed a reason to get rid of him and the whole "me too" thing was a good way to score political points with the public while also getting rid of a one-dimensional character most people didn't care about.
It's easier to erase than to fix
There is this whole whitewashing propaganda thing, like in a two wrongs and a rights, or visa versa.
Like, how do you even begin?
Sorry to answer a rhetorical question but I think it begins with education and empathy.
We don't care about a cartoon, but if Pepe was a real person, then it's a lot harder to just say erase them. And we are essentially seeing that with fascists and immigrants.
If problems actually exist it would be easier to discard the people causing those problems, than to challenge ourselves by confirming that the perceived problem is actually happening, to them rehabilitate the person causing the problems, and then forgive them for their trespasses. Because this requires risk, effort, and a developed sense of community, not tribalism.
It's not easy to allow people who did "bad things" to walk around your friends, neighbours, family etc, once someone does something that is felt to be across a line. But we can if we learn enough. we can if we care enough.
That's a tall order when the world is in a state of everything sucks, and is getting suckier all the time, we are all having our ability to spend resources, be it time, material, or money, to help those that need it, and also just doing anything that isn't just trying to take care of ourselves.
It shouldn't be a surprise that when you have the time and means to help a complete stranger, and choose to do so, it makes the world a better place. It makes it harder to build that hate towards strangers or just people that we don't agree with.
But religion and the reigns of power have been in it a lot longer than anyone reading this comment have been alive, and is why building momentum is so necessary to change anything because it has to start pushing against those long held and abused powers, very hard to be a 1 person movement with enough juice to get things done. Possible but incredibly unlikely
I feel like Fifi from Tiny Tunes was supposed to be a more PC Pepe, but they had absolutely no ideas to make her more of a thing. Did she even have a gimmick? I just remember her name and that she was purple.
Pepe wasn't meant to be a kids' cartoon. When he was created cartoons ran in theaters before the main movie came on. The jokes were written on an adult level. The Tiny Toons were supposed to be for children. Kind of hard to put a nymphomaniac into a G-rated show.
I wish I could remember the name of the novel. It's pretty recent.
Author and hero are both gay men. The hero is fighting a vampire/zombie/cannibal cult. Book is full of massacres, torture, and about a dozen human sacrifices.
There's a trigger warning about bad language at the start of the book.
One of the moms in my wife's mom-clique...the one everyone talks about behind her back...is super religious (Catholic). Their kids all go to private school.
They went to go see a movie, I think it was Lightyear, and her daughter (who at 8 is already giving me "this girl will grow up to be a butch lesbian" vibes) asks about the part where a girl married another girl.
Which, if you ever saw the movie, was a huge deal to the religious right, even though it was literally the tiniest part of the whole movie (and ultimately unnecessary to the plot, which is probably why they made such an uproar over DEI).
Anyways the mom immediately shot it down saying that girls can't fall in love with other girls and they absolutely cannot marry each other.
I feel really bad for that girl. And their older son, who is very likely mildly autistic, an absolutely brilliant kid, but getting a true Catholic school education and will talk my ear off about the great flood. He's getting pretty suspicious of creationism so maybe there's hope for him yet.
But alas, I also don't want to overstep as a parent.
Oh I knew that, I’ve seen it before getting to the age of 43 kiddo :)
I just never saw the French attitude because I was French (still is), hence the "merde".
My name isn’t from that cartoon (Pépé le putois) but from a certain plant… I was a teenager when I choose it. Now that I’m an irresponsible adult I tell people that it’s Skunk the animal and I use cute skunks as profile pictures.
But that’s a lie, let it be our little secret 🤫
If I'm remembering correctly, Pepe will be appearing in the upcoming Coyote vs Acme movie.
Why is Ghandi there? The show itself was canceled, it's been so long, anyone care to explain?
They had to remove him from the reboot cuz people got butthurt.
There was a reboot... Fuck Im so outta the loop. Not that I really care. Shit I only realized they remade Moana like 2 weeks ago. Fucking wack ass shit.
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