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"what I went through wasn't an abortion."
Wooooow. The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.
Another great example of why people who show no capacity for empathy should be shunned from society until they change. She cries about her own abortion, but how many women have already died before she decided to shed a tear for herself?
Shunning people is by definition not an empathetic action, so your plan to increase the average empathy of society falls apart pretty much immediately. Ironically, building empathy requires the opposite of shunning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Empathy is part of the social contract, and when someone violates that social contract they are no longer protected by it. Empathy for the unempathetic is exactly the same as tolerating the intolerant. It leads to the death of the very principle we are trying to espouse.
Beat me to it. Good work
If you don't make people realize they are stupid and shitty, they often remain shitty (even if you literally tell them). Shunning sometimes works, and if it doesn't affect them, then their children are less likely to behave the same way. Empathy works if all parties are open to change, which unfortunately isn't a guarantee.
The paradox of tolerance is surprisingly easy to solve.
"Make the logic sound with one weird exception trick" ?
No one is trying to make these people feel empathy. The time to be taught that was childhood by loving, kind, emotionally available parents. That ship has long sailed. At this point we have to aim for shame and embarrassment if there is any hope to make those that are ok with these fucked up policies have an ounce of self reflection that might make them realize these shitty decisions affect them too. If they are going to be selfish cunts, we can at least educate them so they aren't dumb selfish cunts.
We do not have to coddle the intolerant, the violent, the liars and thieves. They are breaking the social contract but expecting to be protected by it still. They deserve neither succor or shelter from it.
It's kind of impossible to have empathy for someone who doesn't have empathy. Once you try to put yourself in their shoes, that's you being empathetic and, as such, failing to put yourself in their shoes. It's like trying to "win" The Game, the act of trying to win causes you to lose.
Shunning, however, is absolutely an empathetic act when done to someone who society has deemed incompatible (which is very few people all told, most just need a hug), especially when considering all the other varied and violent methods humankind has developed for dealing with these sorts of issues over the millenia. Not only is shunning vastly more empathetic than torture, rape, dismemberment, etc., it's also more empathetic to society as a whole to have that person removed.
Personally disagree. Empathy doesn’t necessarily mean agreeing, it can also mean understanding why the other person is thinking like that, while still disagreeing with them.
Being clear, I agree that shunning is the correct path, but it’s not because “you can’t have empathy for people who lack it”, it’s exactly because you understand that if you don’t shun them, they’re never going to change. The utopic end goal is that people understand why they’re being shunned and start rethinking their choices. Of course, if they don’t and they want to keep being shunned that’s still a positive for society, but we should still hope for them to change. It’s sort of like the (stated, unfortunately not factual) purpose of prison.
Yeah, I was referring to people who literally are incapable of empathy, the people you're talking about just need to learn to exercise it. That's what I meant by the parenthetical in my comment about how most people just need a hug.
I… don’t know how I missed that parentheses, sorry if I basically reiterated what you already said lol
In any case though, I still don’t believe in the existence of people physically incapable of empathy (well, outside of some mentally ill ones who lack more than just empathy), it’s just that some people are in a position where they’re never gonna realistically need to learn it in their entire lives.
No worries, you definitely added another perspective! But yeah, those mentally ill ones are the ones I'm talking about. Like the president of the United States, I simply can't put myself in a place where I can truly understand his motives or what causes him to be the way that he is. The more I try, the less I want to. And this isn't to say all, or even most, mentally ill people should just be locked up or completely forced from society, but there does reach for a point for a very select few where rehabilitation and societal reintegration are simply impossible, and the most empathetic thing that can be done for everyone involved is to stop trying.
Eh, in all honesty I think Trump isn’t that far off from the mindset of most corrupt politicians around the world, he’s just more blatant, less smart and has WAY more power. If you try putting yourself in the mindset of “I benefit from doing this and I have a HUGE cult of people that like that I’m doing this”, it makes sense.
The only reason I think rehabilitation is not viable for him (besides, as I said, him being in a position where it’s impossible to make him face consequences), is because he’s really old and I don’t know if his brain is still capable of completely reshaping his thoughts. But I’m convinced that all the other “younger” terrible people (Musk, Tate, Shapiro and so on) could actually change if the whole world stopped giving them attention/praise and started saying “Hey, what you’re saying is fucked up and nobody likes you. We don’t want you in our society”. Of course, that’s a gigantic “if” because unfortunately they all have their own cult of people thinking they’re the messiah which constantly boosts their ego, but one can dream.
Sorry, all out of empathy for fascists who can't acknowledge their own faults.
What a piece of shit.
Stupid, piece of shit.
I'm done not pointing out the massive correlation between being evil and being a dumb mother fucker.
My only caution is to not always assume idiocy. You may underestimate evil.
Example: I consider myself a reasonably smart guy. I got the smart guy job and the smart guy degree. I also consider donald trump to be an incurious and generally incompetent moron.
But despite my smart guy credentials, and donald's obvious moronism...he convinced a third of the country to vote for him. That is a skill that I do not possess. That is a skill that very few possess.
The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity
#1: Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.
#2 - The probability that a certain person be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.
#3: A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.
#4: Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places and under any circumstances to deal and/or associate with stupid people infallibly turns out to be a costly mistake
Law #5: A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person. A stupid person is more dangerous than a bandit.
According to Bonhoeffer, stupidity is a moral failing, not an intellectual one.
https://www.fisheaters.com/srpdf/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer-On_Stupidity.pdf
Interesting, I hadn't read that before. I do believe it is a moral failing too. Stupidity is cowardice. You pick one lane, one side, and then stick with it and stick your fingers in your ears to any contradictory evidence. Some people do this quite young and never change, and some people astoundingly start to do it in their 50s. That sort of mental rigidity makes no sense to me. We need to give these people a massive dose of shrooms and see if we can shake things up.
He did not accomplish that by himself. The entire Republican party is responsible for that. The megadonors, the evangelicals, Fox News, the NRA, Facebook and Cambridge Analytica, internet trolls, manosphere podcasters, all the way down to the lifelong down-ballot voters.
The Donald Trump that Trump voters see is not the same one you and I see, because theirs is nearly entirely fabricated from lies and omissions. They see fake successes and don't see real failures. Trump's benefactors, not Trump, constructed this alternate reality. And those voters have been living in this constructed reality for over a decade now, conditioned to protect it against all outside forces.
You're right, it's not just the idiocy of the country that put him there, but the evil of the conservative machine.
the only moral abortion is my abortion, its a common tactic for the gop. if a male gop gets a mistress pregnant, they quietly fly them to a abortion clinic secretely terminate the baby.
People who don't understand the inplications of their own actions and then blame others for their ignorance are getting tiring.
Its the Democrats' fault for not warning us of the consequences of our own actions well enough.
-Republicans
Oh remember when Senator McConnell blamed Obama for not warning he and his dumbass party for the obvious unintended consequences for passing the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act?
It's a proud Republican tradition of being fucking proud morons.
You sound like most posters in Lemmy.
They sure love to blame the Dems for all the shit MAGA does.
“WhY dO yOu SuPpOrT gEnOcIdE? “
They ask while they create a worse outcome…
They ask as the orange pedo literally called 'yahoo telling him to ignore ceasefire negotiations with Biden, then outright says "I'll help him finish the job"...then orders an illegal war in Iran and bombs schools for funsies.
But yeah, it's the Dems who were gEnOcIdAl
Yeah, it's been over a century of that happening and things aren't getting better because those same idiots are in charge of education.
Especially when they take that infantile shit mentality to the ballot box.
It’s an abortion until it’s MY abortion, then it’s life saving medical care.
If only politicians weren't the dumbest motherfuckers on the planet, they could have written the law to explicitly allow medically necessary lifesaving treatments. But noooooooooo
“…even though what I went through wasn’t an abortion.”
Wait, so the baby was not…you know…’aborted’?
Let's at least put quotemarks around "baby," which is not accurate, but acceptable usage here because it's what she would have called it while pushing for the 6-week limit. What she aborted was a fetus, as it would be for any woman.
Well, that’s exactly the point a physician, a political leader or just about any other rational actor would’ve made. But extremists don’t care about dialogue. Or facts for that matter.
Kat, and others like her, are fundamentally broken people. People who never overcame their flawed personalities or poor upbringing. But who instead came to believe that their character flaws or poor life choices are actually commendable. And that their apparent failures are the result of being rejected or sabotaged by the ‘other’.
“It was absolute fearmongering at its worst. There will be some comments like, 'Well, thank God we have abortion services,' even though what I went through wasn't an abortion.'"
So it's all a branding issue?
Abortions for none, embryectomies and uterine evacuations for all who want one!
✋Obamacare 👉 Affordable Care Act
These people literally don't believe in reality so much as they believe in how you talk about it.
They all believe their specific reality is superior to anything else, facts, words, meaning be damned.
They're postmodernists who will tell you they hate post modernism, because they just pretend eords mean whatever they want them to.
they just pretend eords mean whatever they want them to.
This is beautifully ironic. Please, do not correct the spelling of this. I think it helps make your point.
Because of her ingrained belief system, brainwashed into her mind since childhood, she absolutely cannot face the fact/admit to herself that she actually had an abortion. Yes, it was objectively and truly an actual abortion.
Assuming that like most evangelicals her belief is that life begins at conception, to admit that she had an abortion would be to admit that she herself is what she accuses other women who have abortions to be: immoral sluts who murder children as their birth control method of choice. She would also have to acknowledge that by her actions she has caused immense pain and suffering, even death in some cases, to other women.
to acknowledge that by her actions she has caused immense pain and suffering, even death in some cases, to other women
I mean... can't someone just, I dunno, take responsibility for their fuckup?
have you ever heard of gop actually admitted wrong doing, no. that means to have contradictory beliefs.
Generally, no. They refuse to acknowledge their mistakes and thus cannot grow, which is why they act like obstreperous children. An adult recognizes their share of a failure - a good citizen endeavors to do better (and not in a PR redemption arc kind of way). There are rare cases where people have managed, to varying degrees, to mentally unfuck themselves, including KKK members and gigaracist HP Lovecraft. This lady has no excuse and should hang from her entrails.
Lovecraft unfucked himself?
Here is my attempt at making sense of how these people function (so far). Contributions welcome!
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