So they fired the executives responsible, right?
post
Seems like we’re entering the “find out” phase…
If only...
Firing a large group of people and re-hiring a subset at reduced rates is a standard business practice used to keep wages down. This wasn't a mistake in policy, it was a clumsy execution.
We definitely are in some ways, but I don't think this applies. Just the past month I've seen several articles about companies doing real work on scaling back AI use, which is good. But a bigger number are still fully invested and everyone who has any say about it have such an extreme AI psychosis that the companies, and possibly themselves, won't survive.
According to Poon, some of the company’s most experienced personnel left before all of their accumulated knowledge could be fully transferred into Ford’s automated systems. That necessitated bringing back some of those employees to retrain those systems...
See this, nothing was learned by these slop-shits. Their take away wasn't humans-with-experience > than slop-bots. It was, unfortunately, 'we didn't extract enough knowledge from the humans that helped build our company before tossing as many humans away as possible. Once we've extracted enough, we'll try again.'
Fuck you poon and co.
Let's hope the humans learned their lesson and won't teach the systems.
even if they can "put all the knowledge" in the LLM, its unlikely the thing would even be able to use it effectively without the same engineers anyways.
Hopefully those employees said, "Sure, I'll come back, but my salary requirement is 50% more than you were paying me."
I always thought it was a joke until it happened to friends of mine. Massive layoffs, they were experts in one specific technology, they came back as consultants for a few years with a doubled salary. They were fired again later, but with a lot more money so it was worth it.
It would be great if all the workers would agree on this collectively, rather than just one offs.
In the current job market, you know it was the other way round.
If the company proactively reaches back out to you, you have the upper hand, regardless of the general hiring atmosphere. It indicates that they don't want to take the time for someone else to ramp up on institutional knowledge they know you already possess.
That’s such a dumb fucking quote. Imagine being a stockholder and reading that sentence spouted from someone at the helm of the company.
Kick rocks, wet socks.
Your thinking like a logical person…not a sycophant with an entitled attitude to their gains.
They'll never hear that though, they'll hear what the want to hear, both via the people at the company and their own brain filter. Then they might see this and other articles but that doesn't matter because they're so far down in the hole of AI psychosis.
Mistakenly, we thought that by just introducing artificial intelligence and adjusting the design requirements that we had, that that would produce a high-quality product
That's so low IQ, like saying "Mistakenly, we thought that by just introducing a lawn mower and adjust the landscaping requirements, that that would produce a high quality lawn."
So the VP quit or was right fired, right? Right?
I hope they had to double their previous salaries...
I had they hope to previous thier double saliear
Durr regard made jokesers fucks it ip halwauthit
The joke is NOT I fucked up correcting myself editing it about it, the joke is that I care so much that I make this meta comment. That's the level of joke we're on
And they're going to fire Charles Poon for fucking this up, right?
The Broligarch's are reading the wrong philosophers. If they read Polanyi they would know that you can't build a tacit knowledge system based on explicit knowledge. Its summed up in the pithy "we know more than we can tell". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polanyi%27s_paradox
“would produce a high-quality product,”
Ai couldn’t do it. Real engineers can. However C suite gonna rebute high quality in favour of service and product that fleeces the most of the buyer.
I've been using an LLM for programming for last 6mo and it needs constant babysitting. It's basically something that just does the most straightforward thing without consideration of nuance, maintainability or whether to actually split into a module. This is very much not surprising.
Yeah, I use it for some programming tasks as well. I’m sick and tired of telling it that it did something wrong or simply omitted something, only to have it apologize and offer to fix its own mistakes.
The major problem is that the work of an LLM has a massive number of hidden 'assumptions' that you need to be aware of. If you don't already have a good working knowledge of the task you wont have an intuition about those assumptions. It's annoying.
Yeah, and for those who don't know, the rationalization output of the LLM is just so pursuasive. It sounds quietly confident and rattles off things that sound like real details.
People are believing the LLM output over actual human experts and the human experts have to expend non-trivial effort trying to disprove an LLM output before they can get on with the business of doing it right.
Yeah, like cards being the best thing ever on front-end. If I want a basic layout I put "avoid cards" usually because then it'll use them sparingly. But yeah, it's just autocomplete so it's always going to get the lowest common denominator code based on what it decided to look at.
I'm now looking into finding something faster than GPT/Claude where I can ping pong prompt faster and get what I want. Whatever it writes first is just a first draft anyway.
You should be glad it's apologizing. On the occasions I've used it to try to actually write code for me it's had a tendency to blame me for its mistakes.
It writes a function that gets stuck in an infinitely recursive loop that never exits, I point it out and it's all "Aha! You've fallen for a classic recursion trap!" What do you mean I've fallen for it?
Between those experiences and seeing the hot garbage some of my coworkers vibe coded, it was enough for me to relegate LLMs purely to the "ask questions that you would have searched for on StackOverflow" role. And it frustrates me that search was made so impotent that it's not a real option to avoid the LLM entirely. The multiple answers and perspectives on SO were often really valuable.
The active dev I know who uses it daily says it drastically reduces the time he spends on routine tasks and sometimes comes up with novel approaches, but he definitely has to check everything. The problem is inexperienced or non-experienced people thinking it's a magic lamp you can rub and it poofs out an expert programmer.
It's a bottom-dollar offshore team that can type faster. It depends on the situation whether that's something that's worth the time and effort to manage.
It's obnoxious enough to try to use for myself, sometimes useful but obnoxious to review the code and just constant screwups except for exceedingly boilerplate stuff or stuff that can take some sloppiness (e.g. LLM can make it easy to indicate some variables to get from argv and do the tedium of that plus help text plus man page edits and generally do that fine). Even if it doesn't screw up obviously, if the code is verbose, I know a screw up is lurking and just ditch it and do it myself.
However, the real pain comes in as other people use it. Just today someone had an issue and normally they'd ask a developer for help and offer debug appropriate information and/or access. However, they "just had Claude do it, even used Opus 4.8 to make sure it's good" and it generated a very verbose report on the issue, why it went wrong, and the appropriate change to make it work. Very detailed and the explanation sounded quite reasonable. Problem was that it was horribly and absolutely wrong, a fiction of a rationalization over a bad code change. It made a change that happened to appear to work for him, but in reality it replaced a failure due to unrecognized data to silent corruption of the data in a facet the user specifically did not care about. Claude claimed it was correctly mapping the unrecognized data correctly, but it just made up a completely untethered conversion based on nothing. Now I could tell the explanation and code change was bullshit at a glance, but it became an argument because the user wouldn't give me actionable debug details because "he already had Claude fix it". I had to keep trying to find holes in the Claude rationalization that the user would also recognize, and he sided with Claude four times until the fifth problem in Claude's explanation finally stuck (it asserted that the problem was due to running a specific outdated version of a specific software, problem being that specific version never even existed, and the minimum "good" version was 10 years old and the version the user was running was about a month old).
I don't understand how people get this far and still don't understand that AI is much better at sounding plausible than being correct.
100%, when you have a complex domain and business logic that already has a bunch of legacy spaghetti it'll just make shit up.
Normally for bug fixes I ask the LLM to find it and then I tell it how to fix the bug which is a lot more hands and actually fixes the issue more often.
just goes to show, mid-level lackeys will do anything for Poon
Very normal story at this point. Managers incompetently think AI will magically replace employees, they lay off employees, it doesn't work, they rehire the employees.
I assume someone got a big bonus for that decision and now someone (maybe even the same person) gets a big bonus for the decision to rehire.
In addition, the automaker underestimated the value of the institutional knowledge accumulated by its more veteran engineers who had worked through multiple vehicle-development cycles. And this combination of phenomena led to a drop in quality in Ford’s vehicles.
"Mistakenly"? More like delusionally. The shortcomings of current AI systems are hardly a secret. Anyone who spent a few minutes getting informed would be aware of those.
Years ago I worked at an ISP tgat went through a merger. They decided they were going to outsource customer service to another company.
We all got nice severances and 3 months prior notice where we basically didn't work because all calls were being routed to the new call center and we were just backup. What a great 3 months. We had card tourneys, spun up the companies old game servers and ran minecraft (alpha) on them, lots of fun.
Get laid off, fast forward a year and the outsource company has taken an 86% approval ratimg down to the low 30s.
They hired a lot of us back to completely rebuild the service department. I was tier 1 and got a 76% raise. I imagine others got better.
I bet the executives who made the decision gave themselves a bonus and are still working there despite the monumental blunder.
There can be value in having learned things the hard way. The decisions I made that resulted in melted piles of scrap really seared themselves into my memory, and help me make better decisions around those systems going forward.
Unfortunately, our corporate systems aren't great at distinguishing people who gained valuable lessons from people who don't recognize they screwed up.
Hoooo boy, make sure you never buy a Ford again.
You mean plastic oil pans might not be great idea?
Gork said it’s fine.
Even Mercedes does it but mine had no leaks at 240k km.
They'll shave weight in the stupidest places to meet emissions.
Are you recommending folks buy something from one of the companies that didn't hire back the people? Or one of the fictional companies that did not use AI as an excuse for layoffs.

top 100 comments