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[+] 5 points 1 year ago (15 children)
  • [+] 9 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    I've seen this type of tactic really well displayed in this video by SquidTips.

    This man talked to a fucking Proud Boy wearing a rainbow shirt that said in large letters "GAY" on it with a button that had the hammer and sickle in trans colors, mentioned his partner was trans, and got the guy to agree with him on the fact that he should be focusing on the class war rather than the culture war.

    Even Proud Boys and people on the far, far right still think that what they're doing is good for society. You don't have to convince them to "stop being evil, switch to being good" you just have to convince them that "this is a more effective method at making society better than what you currently believe is the best."

    Will it work for everyone? Of course not. Some people are just going to be too far gone for you to reach, but there's a lot more people than you might think that could be swayed, despite what the flood of media coverage of the extremes of society can make you believe.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I've found that even if you do this, it doesn't really alter their behavior. A moment of consensus is never going to be enough.

    People need to treat this kind of stuff like breaking someone from a drug addiction or helping someone lose weight. Without addressing the lifestyle factors that drove them down that path, you'll never get them to actually change.

    That's why the brainwashing is so terrifying. People can fall into it pretty quickly and then it can take years and years to deprogram them.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Fair enough, though I do think this can still help with any broader approach to changing their overall mentality.

    A moment of consensus on its own might not be enough to sway someone, but if they hear someone try and contradict what they had recently agreed on, it can then make them feel more cognitive dissonance, and potentially make them at the bare minimum just stop and think for a second.

    If someone else is later trying to sway them in some way, it's going to be easier when that person says something, and they can think "I remember saying something similar" rather than "this is the opposite of what I already believe."

    Plus, there's also just the sort of "exposure therapy" factor to it, as well. A lot of people are radicalized to believe that the "opposing side" is pure, limitless evil, and that they hate you and want you dead, so just interacting with them can be enough to help slowly deradicalize them.

    For example, this Pew Research article states, regarding the likelihood of people to support trans people's existence:

    "Though Republicans who know a trans person are more likely than Republicans who don’t to say gender can be different from sex assigned at birth, more than eight-in-ten in both groups (83% and 88%, respectively) say gender is determined by sex at birth. Meanwhile, there are large differences between Democrats who do and do not know a transgender person. A majority of Democrats who do know a trans person (72%) say someone can be a man or a woman even if that differs from their sex assigned at birth, while those who don’t know anyone who is transgender are about evenly split (48% say gender is determined by sex assigned at birth while 51% say it can be different)."

    But of course, that isn't just limited to acceptance of people by gender. It also applies to race, social and economic status, recipients and non-recipients of welfare programs, people working in different industries, etc.

    Again, not saying it's at all some magic universal way to change someone's mind, or that on its own it's necessarily a factor that can override their overarching condition, (hell, that quote from before shows that it had a much smaller impact on republicans than democrats even given the same exposure) but the more and more this happens, the stronger and stronger an effect it has overall, and I'd say that alone makes it worth doing.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 year ago

    True. And I'd expect you'd need fewer of these moments for younger people than older ones. Every little bump might be the one that diverts someone to a different path. I know it hasn't worked well on my older family members, but it was those kind of moments that helped my diverge from my religious upbringing when I was younger.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    The truth about many republicans, is that they want good things for society as well. However they are some of the most gullible, ignorant, uneducated, even miseducated people you will ever care to meet.

    It is possible to reach them. But it is one of the most Herculean tasks you will ever undertake. One of the hardest parts of it is to avoid triggering their programming. Starting small with basic concepts you can both agree on. And working from there.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago* (2 children)

    How do you find common ground when “wanting good things for society” to them means “enslaving all the n****** and killing all the f******”?

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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago

    They think that "those people" must be controlled and enslaved even for their own good. They have been programmed and indoctrinate so deeply they actually believe that those people are the problem. That it wasn't systems Etc that kept them disadvantaged and down. But somehow something in there very being

    Similar to those sneaky manipulative immigrants. Who are on the whole often far more abiding than your average American citizen. Somehow thinking they have forced employers to pay them less and take advantage of them just to hurt law abiding americans. It's not logical, it's honestly fucking insane. But a lot of it comes from a similar place. They are hurting too. Much like the rest of us. They just can't see everyone else. It's always about them. So the best way to start in on them. Is to point out how the exact same systems have victimized them. And how those they support have enabled and supported it.

    Don't get me wrong there are absolutely many you are shitty people to their core. Whom you shouldn't bother with. The plenty of them have no concept of class 4 or how much they are being manipulated by Elite bourgeoisie. They just want things to be better. But have no clue about what that would look like or how to go about it. Often times having been completely indoctrinated against it.

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  • [+] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    Oh God yes Jubilee and that surrounded bs. Though the recent one with Jordan Peterson was somewhat cathartic. Yeah they get some of the most toxic ones.

    Yep the majority of them are more like my brother-in-law or my SO. She at least realized back in February the mistake she made. Though I can understand it. As a military daughter who spent her life going from Base to Base as her father moved them around the world. Republican bullshit is sort of ingrained in her family. And she doesn't actually engage with a lot of the news personally. Instead it gets filtered to her through family.

    Brother-in-law came from a privileged bougie family. They own a number of stores in the area. All the fancy tchotchkies as a child. Summers and other regular holidays throughout the year at the lake. Started out from 3rd and thought he made a home run. With a very similar story. Hereditary republicanism. No critical thinking. For One Shining Moment talking about how Democrats and Republicans both suck. On which we could agree. Only to inevitably return back to the Republican talking points. That situation is a whole other shit sandwich unfortunately though.

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