I feel like the people I interact with irl don't even know how to boot from a USB. People here probably know how to do some form of coding or at least navigate a directory through the command line. Stg I would bet money on the average person not even being able to create a Lemmy account without assistance.

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[–] 342 points 1 year ago (92 children)

The average person is becoming MORE technologically illiterate, not less. The era of growing up with a home computer that required fiddling and dial up, etc is over. People grow up with phones and iPads and kids come to school not knowing how to use a mouse.

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  • [–] 107 points 1 year ago (10 children)

    And for that reason alone I built a Linux PC for my 11 year old and told him to go to town figuring things out. (I supervise everything of course). Dude has been doing fantastic so far.

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  • [–] 71 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    If he doesn't solve problems with chmod 777 then he's already more competent than the ops teams at my fortune 500 company

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

    Oh, but you gotta drop a chmod nuke at least once to feel the terror having done something irreversible. As a bonus, you’ll also gain a brand new appreciation for snapshots.

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  • [+] 21 points 1 year ago* (3 children)
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  • [–] 43 points 1 year ago (13 children)

    I grew up starting my computer use having to navigate DOS just before windows 3.11 was released. I work in tech today and I feel like just knowing about a lot of the automated things we take for granted today has given me a little bit of an edge.

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago (9 children)

    I had to walk to school in the snow ten miles, both ways uphill!

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago (7 children)
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  • [–] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

    You mustn't have been paying attention, Lt Dan ain't got no legs, that doesn't preclude him from having feet

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  • [–] 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    So a friend of mine went to a convention to show off his gaming project. The kids there were trying to touch the monitors to play the game. They didn't grab the keyboard and mouse. They didn't touch the controller. They touched the monitor. People's framework of what a computer is and what it's made of is completely different than what it use to be

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm extremely young, I don't know how shit works, like at all. Because stuff works pretty well nowadays. Cannot imagine not knowing how to use a mouse. It could not be simpler imo. Can't remember a time that I didn't know lol

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  • [–] 18 points 1 year ago

    I wouldn't say that data is definitive proof. The table is missing ages from 30-under 65 from the table (at least if you're not logged in, if there is a more complete table please share). Also not sure how good some of the questions are for determining tech literacy. Knowing that Elon Musk ran both Tesla and Twitter in April 2023 is more if you keep up with the news rather than knowing how to work a computer. Other ones are good like being able to identify 2FA or knowing what LLM/AI is capable of.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (1 child)

    Feels like I'm listening to the Boomer complaining about kids today not knowing how to use a manual transmission.

    There have been some articles regarding beginning CS classes bring required to include teaching concepts like folder structures because a sizeable part of class was list on this concept.

    To use your transmission analogy, it would be like truck driving schools now need to how to drive a manual transmission vehicle, which adds to the length of the class. Or all the company vehicles are manual and now the company has to deal with hiring new drivers who don't know how to drive stick but will say they know how to drive.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    LMFAO, bruh, your categories are 18-29, and 65+.

    Your Source literally entirely skips over the age group we're talking about. You're not proving strong literacy skills of any kind atm.

    And writing skills are literally entirely different from understanding how a computer works and how to trouble shoot it. Can you name what activity Gen z is doing that's equivalent to texting that is teaching them how to trouble shoot computers that's different then the way millenials learned?

    Because the whole point of that comic is that boomers learned to read and write using letters and books but look down at millenials when they read and write short messages to each other constantly, which is also practicing reading and writing. So what activity is Gen z doing that's learning how to trouble shoot things that millenials don't recognize as learning how to trouble shoot things?

    (For the record I think the generation difference is wildly overblown in threads like this, but Im also not convinced that it's completely unreal, and I also think boomers still had somewhat of a point that that comic glosses over, and we're all now seeing it with our attention spans and vitriol).

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  • [–] 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (15 children)

    Hate to say it, but that technical literacy from having to operate computers the difficult way was a small blip in history. So things are just kind of going back to "normal."

    Now, the only real natural entry into "computing" is gaming. Pretty much everything else has to come through formal education, which is largely myopic and boring.

    Don't think I've even worked with a gen Z engineer yet. I assume they exist.

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  • [–] 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

    I have worked with a few gen z interns/fresh grads, and some younger millennials (I am a 1990 kid) and its interesting... Some of them have been very successful at passing the tests but have no mechanical aptitude at all. Some have been technically literate on first glance, then proven to be just confidently incorrect. In general though, it seems they just didn't grow up being interested in how things worked like I did. It could be isolated to my small sample size or it could be a general trend. They also don't seem to make connections across disciplines as easily either but again, that could just be a time in service thing at this point and not a generational trait.

    I have not been super impressed with the new ones we get when we get them, some of them have been quick learners though and have impressed me with their adaptability. I am a huge proponent of proper mentorships or rotational programs and that is something that seems to get overlooked with younger grads in my experience.

    One thing that really annoys me though, is that when prompted with something they don't know, they will spit out some randome bullshit rather than say they don't know. Saying I don't know is a completly acceptable answer as long as it is followed up with "but I will find out" or "can you help/explain it". Falling back to a first principle approach and talking through it is also valid but just making up some shit doesnt fly with me.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (5 children)

    is that when prompted with something they don't know, they will spit out some randome bullshit rather than say they don't know

    This is just the majority of people, not specific to any generation. Our minds are predisposed to use inductive reasoning to explain the world around us. We see something new and our brain immediately begins to make inferences based on prior information we believe we know (I say it this way cause our memories are incredibly faulty) that we think is relevant or comparable.

    It's essentially the Dunning Kruger effect: we think we know more than we do and, because of this, believe we can simply assume correctly about other things we know nothing about.

    It's an incredibly bad habit that is supposed to be trained out of us through our education systems but we all know how incredibly faulty those systems are.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 year ago (4 children)

    The education system as I lived through it in Texas was actively hostile to saying you didn't know, it was treated as being worse than being wrong or guessing. You can tell by the results allllllll around us.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

    I'm assuming they mean "Normal" as in "the general public being completely oblivious to the inner workings of the things they utilize in their daily lives", not "people going back to having an easier time with tech".

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  • do you know the proportion of people making those tools? Like how many people could make tools, and work a technically skilled trade, compared to those who didn't. Also, if you have a very narrow set of things you need to make, it doesn't really do a whole lot more inherently. To see this before computers computers, just look at cars. Once they became mainstream you started to see that most people had no clue how they worked, and no interest in knowing.

    My grandmother's generation of my family were largely farmers. Like mostly born between 1910 and 1923. They knew how to make, and fix, tools, fences, etc. However, once they got away from this specific knowledge, that they grew up with, they were completely disinterested, and were suspicious of people who had broader knowledge sets. They also thought learning from reading was pointless, as they never were interested in reading, so they developed their reading skills to be just enough to get by, and became intensely frustrated when they ran into an issue, on the farm, they hadn't before, and needed to read the manual for whatever piece of equipment it was. They also did this thing, where they would be doing something, like repairing/installing/expanding their irrigation system, but they didn't have a fundamental understanding of why it worked. Just that you did these things, in this way, and it would work. They also didn't care why it worked, just that it did.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 year ago

    You are absolutely right, but let's be clear here... it's not so much the lack of keyboard and mouse that's the problem... it's that these touchscreen devices don't let you actually DO anything. The devices you can use a keyboard and mouse on ALLOW you to play, customize, make mistakes, and learn. There's no reason a touchscreen device couldn't provide that too, but iOS and Android specifically forbid you from learning anything - that's a recipe for security holes! And THAT's the real skill they lack. Real competence means bending the endless possibilities to your will - not just being given 5 of the most common ones and being locked out of the rest.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 year ago (7 children)

    Why there now exists "iPad Kid".

    That a friend I know of has a lot of his kids entirely on smartphones, while their family PC is hidden behind cobwebs and dust; if they want a document printed they just go out to some print shop.

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  • [–] 25 points 1 year ago (6 children)

    if they want a document printed they just go out to some print shop.

    In fairness, it can be expensive to stock the holy water necessary to fend off the demons that inhabit all printers.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 year ago (5 children)
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  • [–] 4 points 1 year ago (15 children)

    Not knowing how to use a mouse is hyperbole for not knowing how to use a computer, but also, if you can't use a mouse, you can't use a workstation computer. Knowing how to navigate a mobile device does not make someone tech literate. In general it stunts computer skills, because there's minimal tech knowledge required to download an app from a curated store or watching tik tok.

    You're proving our point in the second paragraph. Yea, kids aren't being taught computer skills. Not knowing the fundamentals of how to use a workstation is a problem and it is causing a regression in technological literacy in society.

    Young people tend to be more interested in phone and tablets than ever before. Some for sure are into workstations, but that is not the norm. Id argue less kids percentage wise are spending time on computers daily than 15-20 years ago. Everything is done on iPads or phones in schools, until college. Even if you didn't want to, back in the day you had to know how to navigate a complex operating system, save files to removable storage, download files and install them, and a plethora of other seemingly simple skills, and that's not happening now.

    If you work in IT or around youth entering the workforce, it's extremely clear that tech literacy is worse now than it was a decade ago, or at least it is as a millennial that bridged that gap and can clearly see the difference. I can see if someone is younger than millennials why they wouldn't be able to see that difference, because they are in that demographic.

    It would take 5 seconds to do a Google search for millennials and technology and find a couple studies on the topic. It isn't some secret that's being hidden and it's easily accessible. Perhaps your inability to find these studies is the proof that tech literacy has degraded.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (5 children)

    "The assumption is that because Gen Z and even millennials spend a considerable amount of time on technology that they are technology savvy," Irish said, according to WorkLife.

    "This is a huge misconception. Sadly, neither watching TikTok videos nor playing Minecraft fulfills the technology brief."

    Unfortunately, Gen Z may be less equipped for the future of technical work than we think. The key reason is that traditional education is not preparing the new generation for a digitally-driven job market. A recent study from Dell, which surveyed 15,000 Gen Z members, found that 37% of them feel that schools are not adequately preparing them for the demands of a digital world. Furthermore, 56% have received minimal to no digital skills education.

    Across the nation, the basic skills of reading and comprehension have been devalued over recent years, intellectual curiosity among younger generations has grown weaker, and AI is rapidly replacing human thought.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    Nowhere have they been compared

    less equipped

    Can't do the reading for you..

    This stuff has been talked about for at least 5 years. Here's two studies that have come to the same conclusions. By The University of Toledo and the ICILS EU.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (1 child)

    Conveniently left out the relevant part:

    However, they (they as in Gen Z) are far less (less as in compared with the Millennials) adept at understanding how to use technology to create useful solutions to their business challenges — for example, using Outlook to send e-mail, Word to prepare documents, Excel to analyze data and PowerPoint to communicate through presentations.

    This, togheter with the previous paragraph which you mentioned, is talking about a direct comparison of Gen Z and Millennials and it directly states Gen Z is less tech savvy than Millennials.

    This study does not say at all that tech literacy has been declining.

    But it does, like multiple times, even on paragraphs you quoted.

    I provide you with multiple sources explaining how tech literacy is declining, you keep saying they don't compare. What do you think less means? What do you think declining means? It means they are comparing.

    Try wasting someone else's time lmao

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  • [–] [S] 1 point 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

    "However, they (they as in Gen Z) are far less (less as in compared with the Millennials) adept at understanding how to use technology"

    You just added in the "they as in gen z" and the "less than millennials part" into the text. The text is referring to both millennials and gen z at this part in the text and it is comparing them to their older counterparts which would be gen x and boomers lol. There is also no source for this claim it's just what some guy thinks. No actual study or data is provided.

    The article does not compare gen z and millennials. Show me the unedited quote. Of them doing that.

    Show me the quotes where it says tech literacy is declining. Like I said, you're making abstractions based off of vibes. None of your sources provide any data showing tech literacy declining.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 year ago (3 children)

    The argument saying there are peer reviewed studies was not the argument I made. You're strawman game is weak dude.

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