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Do people who deserve to suffer deserve to be helped? (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 week ago by to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world
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[+] -6 points 1 week ago (19 children)

You believe absolutely no one deserves to suffer? Not even those who have intentionally caused immense suffering to others?

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  • [–] 35 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    My goal is to minimise suffering, so yes, no one deserves to suffer

    Not that there aren't some people I personally want to hurt, but I know that's bad and I'd rather just stop them hurting more people without hurting them, in truth

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  • [–] 28 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    This is the correct answer of any well adjusted empathetic human. Even those I hate the most I don't want tortured. I want them to stop being evil pieces of shit. Imprisonment or death are solutions to stop them from being pieces of shit, and if necessary it should be swift. Sure, I can understand the desire to inflict pain upon someone who murders my family or rapes a child, and I would do it myself in certain circumstances, but that doesn't make it "right", moral or just.

    Ideally the monsters would just develop empathy and stop being evil, and devote their lives to doing the opposite. The probability of that is essentially zero, though.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 week ago*

    Ideally the monsters would just develop empathy and stop being evil, and devote their lives to doing the opposite. The probability of that is essentially zero, though.

    It is, in fact, not uncommon for criminals of all kinds to develop deep remorse and even empathy for their victims while in prison. this is why it is of great value to focus on rehabilitation rather than simply punishment.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago

    There have been times I've wanted to see those who wronged me suffer. But after giving it some thought, I realized what I really want is for them to understand how they hurt me and learn from it

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  • [–] 16 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    There are people who deserve to be stripped of power and stopped from causing further suffering. But does making them suffer back actually accomplish anything productive?

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  • [–] -2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Punishment is a deterrent.

    Some people deserve punishment.

    Therefore some people deserve to suffer.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (7 children)

    Yes, not even the worst people you can imagine. I don't believe in free will so I don't view these people as ultimately responsible for what they are. They could not be have acted otherwise and any kind of punishment carries the implicit assumption that they could have but actively choose not to.

    If someone intentionally causes immense suffering to others and is unable to stop that behaviour then I think these people should be locked away. Not as a punishment but to defend the innocent. If a bear wanders into a neighbourhood and mauls a person, we shoot the bear but not out of retribution. If we could tell it to go back to the forest and stay there, and it did, then it wouldn't make much sense to follow it there and make it suffer to even things out, would it?

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    A rabid dog doesn’t have free will, but still needs to be put down for the good of society.

    Whether or not you believe in free will, crimes should be punished.

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  • [–] 1 point 6 days ago

    Removing a threat doesn't have anything to do with justice. You can punish criminals to deter future crime and hopefully prevent more suffering than you inflict. Inflicting suffering for the sake of vengeance is wrong.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    My worldview depends on us having free will and that we are responsible for our conscious actions, so I don't think there'd be much of a point in engaging in a debate with you, but thank you for the civil response anyway.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    So, our brains give us limited options to choose from at any given inflection point. From where in the void does that list of options spring out of for each of us? Why aren't our lists of options identical?

    Free will is a fun idea, but this is the sticking point for me: we have very limited options afforded to us at any moment regardless of how "free" we otherwise feel.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago

    I think suffering is caused by systemic problems or the world. Anyone who caused a lot of suffering only did so because they also suffered a lot.

    The Germans lost world war 1 and were made to pay for it. This caused a lot of economic hardship for an entire generation. It's not surprising that they grew up to want to exact revenge.

    An entire generation of Jews suffered as a result of German decisions from world war 2. When they founded Israel, they had a resolved to never be victims again and they had to inflict that generational trauma on another group of people.

    The Palestinians have lived under the boot of the Israelis for 3 generations. Why the hell wouldn't they want to exact revenge?

    Punishment and vengeance is never the answer, but it can almost always be justified.

    "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

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