Gotta point out that the french protests, while they are in general for everyone that doesn't mean it's not extremely partisan and divided. It's just we all know Macron is absolute trash 🤷

Picture from 2026 autumn french protests. Yellowshirt 2.

Caption "this could be us, but we're too busy fighting each other instead of the corrupt system"
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[–] 4 points 1 week ago (8 children)

Oh please, when they raised retirement age in France there was a bunch of protests that lead to... The retirement age being raised. I say this as someone who observed, you are full of it.

You are just trying to romanticise violence as France has not protested its way out of being a fascist shithole and won't anytime soon.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 1 week ago (4 children)

    Ah yes, Macrons retirement age. The one he had to push through - killing his reputation and any future election. The whole problem with protesting is that peaceful protests don't do shit without any threat of violence. It might not do anything but Ghandi was the option the powerful aligned with due to more radical violent options being there.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_French_pension_reform_law this and the linked wiki articles are decent coverage. It should also be said that this is the 3rd time the pension age was attempted to be raised in france, so third time's the charm for killing your voterbase.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    Peaceful protest don't work against fascists who only recognize violence as power? This isn't the win you think it is.

    You are correct that the wealthy will often side with the peaceful protestors in order to quell the more violent groups. This is appeasement, not capitulation.

    Thanks for the information about the French Pension Reform. Just like in the US, and everywhere else, the wealthy get what they want. Ending one politicians career is nothing to them. They have several more waiting in the wings.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    The point is that no change happens in an unjust system without violence or threats of violence? I seem to get the impression you agree with me now, or that you claim that nonviolent or violent action both cause no change.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (1 child)

    The point is the system is unjust and violent and everytime violence is used to overthrow it we just recreate another violent system.

    I agree with your charactization of change in how the wealthy will often side with the nonviolent side of progressives/radicals because to them they are the lesser of evils. We have seen this play out several times. In this scenario, it is important that the violent group is separated from the nonviolent group. If the nonviolent group is associated with the violence it will typically fail to co-opt the wealthy.

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  • [–] [S] 3 points 1 week ago

    oh yea, then I get your point and pretty much same page :') I think you're spot on in that the violent and non-violent group have been seperate before - but in semi-democracies a lot of political parties can align with parts of protester demands - or we can get parties formed from protest movements like the student-group in serbia this year.

    I do have the hope that we can create a non-violent, just system - I don't think we should give up on trying even if we've yet to succeed! :)

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (2 children)

    I think you've missed what I said entirely while going on to agree with my point with another commenter.

    The system is unjust, built on violence. That is the only language it now understands.

    As you, yourself, say, change has bot been effectual without a sufficient threat of violence from another group. Capitulation of the wealthy and powerful. Would you rather deal with MLK or Malcolm X? Both were necessary to change, only one is lauded as a hero and he was killed for choosing the peaceful route.

    I'm not advocating for violence outright. I'm advocating for disruption. Block off roads, in fundraisers, interrupt closed door meetings that sell your parks for data centers. Make people uncomfortable, force them to notice the status quo is broken.

    Historically, has violence, which is monopolized by the state and effectuated on the people through financial hardship, healthcare denials, homelessness, incarceration, police brutality, surveillance, and more, been effective at forcing change? Historically? Yes. That's an observation as opposed to romanticization.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (1 child)

    You are advocating for nonviolent protest. I agree. I also agree that there are lots of examples of government siding with the nonviolent side of radicals. This is historically accurate and at times the violent radicals have cooperated with nonviolent radicals to further the cause. As I stated in another post, it is important in this scenario for the nonviolent radicals not to be associated with violence.

    Change to another violent system is not really a win which has played out in several revolutionary movements.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    Malcolm X Vs MLK was a perfect example of how your assumption is baseless: MLK changed nothing. The 64 "civil rights" act was a nothing burger that lead to him continuing to protest until he was murdered. At that point, every city in the US rioted for 9 days solid, causing the 68 civil rights act to be written and passed as a matter of urgency.
    Protest does nothing unless backed by violence.

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