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[–] 66 points 1 week ago* (50 children)

While I consider myself pro nuclear, there is something that gets forgotten everytime this conversation comes up.

Nuclear produces waste, which is mentioned often but it is usually responded by pointing out that it could be recycled and the worse to be buried.

Here is what people miss:

Are all our nuclear waste handled correctly today? If not then why should we imply that they will be in the future.

The problem with nuclear isn’t that the waste is impossible to handle, it’s that humans are too short sighted to follow through with it.

And imo that’s a very valid argument on why we should use solar as much as we can.

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  • [–] 34 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    While I consider myself pro nuclear, there is something that gets forgotten everytime this conversation comes up.

    The problem with nuclear isn’t that the waste is impossible to handle, it’s that humans are too short sighted to follow through with it.

    Thats not even the biggest problem with nuclear power as the waste angle, at scale, will hit us decades in the future. The more urgent problem hitting us now on even on existing deployed nuclear plants is cooling water.

    The byproduct of nuclear power generation is lots AND LOTS of waste heat. You have to get rid of this every second to continue to produce electricity. This is why nuclear power plants are typically built next to a large body of water. However, with reduced water supplies in reseviors theres less water to use for cooling nuclear plants. A double whammy is with climate change increasing temperatures, the water that remains is already hotter than it was, meaning it can carry away even less heat.

    If a plant can't get rid of its heat it needs to curtail (reduce) electricity production. This isn't just theoretical. Its happening now in 2026 to existing power plants:

    At the time when Europe was experiencing its worst heatwave is recorded history, many European reactors had to be turned down or off. 2026 isn't the first time this has happened either, you can go back in the last 5 years or so and see many reports of nuclear plant curtailment because of lack of cooling capacity (cool water).

    When we know global temperature are rising, it looks like this will just get worse. How can we say nuclear is the future when the conditions for it working well are already declining?

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  • [–] 8 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    IMHO another big issue with nuclear is concentration of power. nuclear is quite stable, but not always and when it fails you suddenly loose a huge bunch of production that becomes hard to replace. (and Im not even getting into safety here)

    France had to deal with a lot of issues just this year, with around 20% of their nuclear plants unoperative, which increased prices dramatically.

    Solar is mostly distributed by design (and need) and failures are smaller

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  • [–] 8 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    A hailstorm wiped out 350mW of solar in Texas in 2024. But, they learned that the angle of panels was critical to avoid damage and now they have a hail storm mode that increases the angle to protect the panels.

    Not sure if panels can survive hurricanes, certainly not tornados.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    To the disposal argument i like to ask; are we handling our waste from burning fossil fuels well?

    Is run away climate change "doing it well"?

    Would you rather your waste be buried in the ground or pumped into the atmosphere?

    Containing the waste and burying it in the ground is the default for nuclear, meanwhile doing the same for CO2 is very challenging and it may never be viable.

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  • [–] 17 points 1 week ago*

    But we are comparing solar to nuclear.

    Being better than fossil fuels is a pretty low bar.

    And yes better nuclear than oil but the whole thing about nuclear is that it has a very delayed start time, so the argument of needing it ASAP supports solar if anything.

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  • [–] 18 points 1 week ago (30 children)

    Being pro-nuclear was a very valid position up until a few years ago. Now solar has gotten so cheap that there is practically no reason to do it except to protect yourself against US imperialism.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 week ago (7 children)

    Solar still has some huge problems when it comes to seasonality and day/night cycle. You either need massive battery build out or some other form of energy to handle base loads and/or offset when solar isn't producing enough.

    Not saying solar isn't part of the future, but we literally can't just rely on solar.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Battery tech is getting super good though, and the materials are recyclable. If solar becomes cheap enough we could even store it in creative (but less efficient) batteries like lake batteries or weight batteries and the like.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (1 child)

    I had heard of lake batteries over the years, but never a weight battery. Thank you for teaching me something new today!

    You know what else I haven't heard of in a while? Thermal solar, where they use a parabolic mirror array to concentrate the sun onto a small tube full of water pushing a steam turbine. Even the plain steam could be used for heating and more. Steam can absolutely be concentrated under pressure (more of a capacitor than a battery since the temp won't hold, but it does provide stability). The steampunk future from comic books is at our finger tips only we will generate the steam using the sun rather than big factories of iron and steel.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago*

    You haven't heard of a weight battery because the weights need to weigh something close to a lake to be useful.

    Companies come up every so often selling the idea and then people realise that the energy stored in the tower, mine, or whatever is about the same as a couple of EV batteries unless you have something the size of a lake.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    You have to over build and you have to diversify. As many different types of generation as you can.

    Nuclear probably has a role. However it doesn't fit well in a dynamic generation scenario. It doesn't like just sitting there waiting to fill in the gaps left by solar and wind. It wants to be a full power all the time just due to economics.

    If we could get tidal working, that would be superb. Regular, predictable and almost universal.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (1 child)

    Solar panels have become more than ten times cheaper than they were a decade ago. They are easily able to gather half the energy of what they did a decade ago in the summer now in the winter.

    So even in the winter solar is twice as price efficient.

    Yes there is downtime but solar is a fast and cheap way to replace most electricity cost. Then the rest can be fixed with nuclear in 20 years. We need clean cheap energy now and we can mostly get it.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago

    I'm not talking about price, I'm talking about generation.

    I have solar panels, they are great. However, I get too much energy in the summer, not nearly enough in the winter, and no power at night. Since I'm on a grid that doesn't matter too much for me, but highlights some of the issues.

    Even if I installed a battery, I'd end up with extra power in the summer and not enough in the winter. Which just highlights the discrepancy in production. Batteries obviously help solve this, but some mixture of wind/nuclear/other is needed.

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  • [–] 10 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    You do realize that you can support multiple things? You don't have to be antinuclear to be pro-solar.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    This is true. I am mostly pro-solar and mostly anti-nuclear, but if we decided to build a huge multi-national plant to combat/reverse global warming and it needed obscene amounts of energy to operate, I think that might be a perfect task for nuclear. The same doesn't hold true for AI data centers though. I hope those guys have to generate their power by daisy chaining potato batteries.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 week ago (15 children)

    Nuclear, both fission and fusion (which will never happen anyway) are relics of an era of cheap fossil fuels and relative world order.

    Solar electricity is viable at scale but also indicates a change in our species' living arrangements on this planet.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago (1 child)

    That's an interesting way to look at it. If it's not just about the power and the cost, there are actually a lot of other factors that we have glossed over.

    Solar is cooperative and local while nuclear necessitates centralization. In a nuclear future, large nuclear generating corporations are the sellers and we are the buyers. In a solar future, we pool and exchange our power depending on current production ability and current electric need... comrade.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (12 children)

    We have started to build the first commercial fusion plants now. You may want to update your rhetoric.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (8 children)

    I look forward to seeing them produce energy in a short 20 years from now.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago* (7 children)

    You should read up on the topic, I know I was surprised, the breakthroughs have recently happened. Now it is just permitting and building. Obviously there will still be issues, but there is little question to the reality now.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (2 children)

    I've read of smaller reactors that should speed up prototyping, but nothing about actual net positive energy production. That's still far away.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (1 child)

    This happened a long time ago. Prototyping is over. I was very skeptical as well up until they figured out a practical reactor design and are in the process of building and permitting several commercial plants around the world.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA haha hahaa haaaa hahhahahaha aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh hahahahahaha!!!

    You can get more power by putting a small wind turbine near my face than any of your fantasy-land nonsense comic book contraptions.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (3 children)

    No, there won't. You sound like you've never heard of a scam. Here's one:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaren

    Just, no.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (2 children)

    Living in denial as they are building commercial plants. Looks like Big Oil propaganda got you.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    You may want to update your physics, engineering, and reality.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

    Nuclear reactors could still be useful in things like the mass production of hydrogen through steam electrolysis or even using fancy stuff like thermochemical reactions.

    I know China is planning on building the world's first nuclear reactor integrated into an industrial area for the production of very hot steam.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago

    You can still like it if you are looking far enough in the future to realize it's the only viable energy source for space travel past like... Mars. Further than that and solar panels just won't generate enough.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    fire it into space futurama style

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  • [–] 3 points 1 week ago (3 children)

    The fact is that humans are just not well equipt to deal with problems beyond human scales.

    We're not good at accurately assessing risks beyond human time scales and we're not good correctly prioritizing action when the benefit is beyond human time scales.

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  • [–] 12 points 1 week ago (2 children)

    Big Oil predicted global warming pretty spot on, they just fought it and hid the findings instead.

    To some extent I think we've gotten pretty good at long term predictions on things like this, but no one wants to hear it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 week ago (1 child)

    Global warming is a great example of how terrible we are at dialing in the correct priority for issues beyond human scales.

    When some humans worked out it was coming, nothing happened - the opposite of nothing. As more humans became aware, more effort was put into styming efforts than actually doing anything.

    Even now, as the effects are near-universally understood, present, and killing people - still we fail to act on the threat with anything like an appropriate level of seriousness.

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