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Entrapment seems about right (lemmy.world)
submitted 3 weeks ago by to c/childfree@lemmy.world
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[–] 18 points 3 weeks ago (22 children)

See also: aging parents, marriage, real estate, college education, car payments. Like, this person is hyperfocused on children, but any commitment of any kind comes with sacrifices and restriction unless you're endlessly wealthy.

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  • [–] [S] -2 points 3 weeks ago* (21 children)

    You can walk away from every single one of those things. Aging parents aren't your responsibility (if they are, there's something deeply wrong with how they lived their lives). Marriages can be annulled. You can drop out of college and sell the car. All of those things can be reversed to a reasonable degree.

    You can't walk away from your kids under any circumstances (aside from giving them up for adoption, which still doesn't exactly sever their connection to you or your responsibility towards them) -- they exist entirely and completely because you desired it to be so.

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  • [–] 13 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

    Every state in the US has a safe-haven law on the books. You can drop a baby off at nearly any firestation, sometimes in completely anonymous baby boxes, and absolve yourself of responsibility. It's literally easier to get rid of a child than it is student loan debt.

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  • [–] 4 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Just because it's technically possible – like, for example, murdering one's abuser is an option – doesn't mean it's something that most parents would be willing to consider. There's your bond with your child, there's empathy, there's guilt, there's family and friends judging you, and potentially cutting you off if you decide to do it, ... I'm sure there's places in the world where it's worse, or straight up illegal.

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  • [–] 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    Yes, which circles back to my initial point: all the things I listed and more "trap" you in the same way. The emotions and repercussions you describe also apply to plenty of things beyond caring for a child. Parenthood is not the unique trap that OP's post implies.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago

    OP states the entrapment of "people depending on you" which is uniquely different from the other things you've mentioned. With aging parents, it depends on the culture and retirement support given by the state, but then again, they brought you into this world, not the other way around. With a partner, I could see a case being made if said partner is disabled. But with kids, you are (typically) the reason they're here.

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  • [–] 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

    Aging parents aren't your responsibility (if they are, there's something deeply wrong with how they lived their lives).

    I don't agree with this at all. People have problems and need help all the time without it being all their fault. If they didn't, there would be almost no homeless people, maybe zero.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago

    Yes, thank you!

    There's a definite overlap in this community of people that don't want kids and people that were traumatized by their parents. I totally get that. It seems like some of them also get so fixated on "parent bad" that they paint everyone with the same experience they've had.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 3 weeks ago*

    That's not even remotely what I said. I said they're not your responsibility and you can indeed walk away from them should you choose to because you had no hand in their existence. You can choose to help them or care for them but that is 100% a conscious choice on your end, you are under zero actual obligation to do so.

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  • [–] 2 points 3 weeks ago (9 children)

    This world view is very self-centered, and also inconsistent.

    Inconsistent: Your argument is essentially, "you can abandon your aging parents, but you can't abandon a child." False. If you're okay with abandoning aging parents, why not leave a child up for adoption? Both are, quite frankly, gross concepts

    Self-centered: Humans are social creatures, and part of being social is community. And I mean IRL community. For many that community include immediate and extended family. For others, it's found family. Either way, yes, a person can "walk away", and there are consequences. Also, I'm taking care of my mom. She's 85. If I abandon her, she'll be put in a home, and all of her things become property of the state. So, to a degree, she is my responsibility, as well as my other siblings. If we abandon her, her community will help, but not to the degree that she could maintain her independence and quality of life. And it would break her heart. Is there something wrong with how she lived her life?

    I can't tell if you're just young, or very socially isolated, or both. Yes children bog a person down, shackle them to a way of life that allows the child to (hopefully) thrive. So do other things. If a person is so isolated they can pull up stakes and go with a snap of their fingers that person is deeply wrong with how their living their life.

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  • [–] 8 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

    Feel like the whole parent thing here you're giving is also naive, as it's assuming a decent relationship with the parents.

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  • [–] -2 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    for others it's found family

    Yes, I assume most people have at least a nominally healthy relationship with their parents. Perhaps that's naive. I don't assume everyone does, but even with found family a healthy balance includes older parental/Uncle/Aunt type figures that get older and sometimes need help.

    My greater point is that no man person is an island. We are (almost) all anchored by various social responsibilities. Those ties that bind also add richness and variety to life

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

    ...Ummm no. If I were to abuse someone or something , even a pet, why in the fuck would I expect 'sOcIal RepSonSibIlTiEs' to keeo them connected to me? Abuse is a choice. By making the choice to abuse someone or soemthing a person has lost all rights to be tied to that thing. Ive burnt The Social Contract and now must fave the consequences. Its not hard to just not be an asshole and to just use a little critical thinking and little empathy.

    Abuse and abusers adds no 'richness' to life. If anything they destroy life , and those abusers probably spent most of their life doing what IOF soldiers are currently doing in Palestine or what american marines did in Iran and Afghanistan. Do people like this add 'richness' to anyone's life in your opinion? Lool!

    Some people are forced to become an island temporarily to escape abuse and my condolences to all those who have been abused πŸ«‚

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  • [–] 1 point 3 weeks ago (1 child)

    I'm sorry, what? When did abuse ever come up? I think you might be way inside your own head there. The entire point of found family is when your birth parents are either dead or abusive and you've gone no contact. Where in my reply did I say you have to stay with abusers? What are you even talking about? You're reading my reply from the perspective of an abusive parent. I'm talking about how decent people always are connected to others. There is some seriously toxic projection going on in this thread

    Also, often if someone says another person "probably" does something, without evidence, their argument is invalid. Go touch grass, friend, and think about something positive. You definitely need it

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  • [–] 3 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

    If you’re okay with abandoning aging parents, why not leave a child up for adoption? Both are, quite frankly, gross concepts

    Having children is a choice, and you agree to be responsible for them.
    Being born is not.

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