It seems the fediverse is continuing and growing again. Line go up is probably good!

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https://fediverse.observer/stats&months=50

Total users are huge now.

There are many websites out there that pull data from the fediverse. So take that with a grain of salt. But anecdotally I am seeing a small rise in people using the various platforms as each get more mature and servers somewhat stabilize.

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[+] -10 points 1 month ago* (38 children)

You couldn't have certain reddit subreddits here. For example, I follow r/Sverige which is the political right's Sweden channel. And they talk about immigration as a major problem. How open would Lemmy be to discussions like that? It can't even handle different opinions without defederation, downvoting and blocking.

No, i think Lemmy is good for memes and stuff but it can't handle discussions that adults wants to have.

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  • [–] 23 points 1 month ago (16 children)

    I don't think there would be anything stopping them spinning up instances. It would be up to others whether they want to see their posts though.

    I'm a leftie but I can handle having a conversation about immigration, as long as it's mature, lucid and respectful.

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  • [–] 9 points 1 month ago (12 children)

    Well then you're in the minority. I do think it's a problem that you can't post what on most other platforms would be viewed as mainstream viewpoints without being threatened by censorship. And I do not agree with these viewpoints but at the same time, if the average person cannot post here without walking on eggshells, the fediverse will never be mainstream.

    And I want it to be mainstream because fuck the tech oligarchs.

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  • [–] 13 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    People learning what the overton window is and that it can be very much different depending on the place you are in (i.e. instances in the case of the fediverse, but also to a lesser extend the fediverse itself) is a good thing in my view.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (3 children)

    They're not going to learn about it because most people who join the fediverse end up leaving and they don't recruit anyone else.

    The Overton window would be moved by people being exposed to far left ideas and finding them more reasonable than expected. But the community does a very poor job of doing that currently.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago

    It's far worse than that: after leaving they continue to talk about us, as someone might do for an unfaithful ex, trashing our reputation. We can be toxic AF here, with little to no warning labels about which spaces have what echo chamber policies in place; only people with extraordinarily thick skins can stand this space, especially for long periods of time.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    I don't quite agree. The people that leave silently (the overwhelimingly large majority) don't leave as an active decision, but rather fail to come back because there isn't enough interest (or nagging notifications).

    And for people to realize their overton window is scewed to the right it is sufficient to be exposed to left wing ideas, no need to find them reasonable. The regular existence of these ideas in discourse is sufficient.

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  • [–] 19 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    You can post racist drivel here, it will just be rightfully treated like it is.

    What you can’t do on mainstream platforms is post leftist content, which you actually can here. Like Lemmy was pretty much invented because leftists got their comm banned from Reddit. They routinely censor us, like with Meta shutting down countless queer pages and spaces as of late.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    Reddit is full of left leaning subs.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    just because you lean left it doesn't mean you are left. It means your ass is still squarely in the center. Being "Leftist" is to have the tacit understanding that the far right means to eradicate progressive thought by any means necessary, and that any threats of violence from "our" side are spoken from a place of self defence. The right does not want "discussion" to lead to compromise, they want it to lead to compliance. Besides, we've "been having the discussion" since the 1970's and as every hostage negotiator knows: if you keep them talking, they aren't acting. It's a stalling tactic.

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  • [–] 15 points 1 month ago (1 child)

    As others have said, you can make your own instance for wrong beliefs. Perhaps painting a target on your forehead would help with the feelings of being persecuted.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago

    The fediverse is not a safe space, excepting a few instances like blahaj.

    People can and should make instances for different philosophies but my concern is that any instance that doesn't enforce leftist purity is going to be defederated.

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  • [–] 7 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    It's probably worth remembering that censorship and moderation are two sides of the same coin.

    And they're not just used to silence viewpoints (like you're saying about the Fediverse) but also an absence of it is exploited to keep people addicted to ragebait and jealousy (mainstream).

    I think it's a fundamental problem of social media as a technology tbh, and we'd be mostly better off without it.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago

    the only discussion about immigration should be "If you don't like immigrants, then stop supporting foreign policies that make their countries of origin shitholes, so they don't want to leave in the first place."

    Oh no! but that might mean BROWN PEOPLE have (GASP!) "agency!!!" (Clutches pearls and faints)

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  • [–] 5 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    There are few instances claiming that they will do less strict moderation and defederations.

    However I haven't check those instances myself yet.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)
  • [–] 8 points 1 month ago* (2 children)

    Sh.itjust.works is one I think in terms of not defederating.

    A big issue with not doing moderation is it pretty much leads you to becoming a Nazi bar and getting defederated by others.

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  • Doesn't matter how open 'the fediverse' is or not to a point of view if the admin of your server are happy to have it, it will exist here. Especially when we're talking raw numbers like this, they should all be piling into the same bucket, if we're measuring fediverse. But as I say this I wonder what the definitions they're using are.

    For instance very different views are expressed on Truth Social, which I'm led to believe could connect to the fediverse, but choose not to. So I wonder if those numbers are included, i expect not because they'd not be connected as a fediverse participant by my understanding.

    The point is, other people don't have to put up with it in their corners of the fediverse if they don't. This is the freedom of choice benefit that a network like the fediverse has over a centralised platform like fb, reddit, or even BlueSky. This is a fundamental difference in levels of control that makes the fediverse such an exciting project.

    Its not necessarily the case that each individual user has full control of these settings, although they mostly do, and if they set up and maintain their own instance they absolutely will. But it is the case that a user has greater control to a point where its practically individualised, and if there were a case where some greater disconnection is warranted the admins aren't some amorphous presence that travel between dimensions unseen, they have a presence in their servers and have a level of accessibility thats unheard of in previous forms of social media. Theres also a community of admins, who can learn and build off each other, which is beneficial in a cooperative-competition kind of way.


    Anyway, you probably already knew all this. I ended up finding typing this out was a fun exercise to appreciate for a moment what this network is actually delivering to a couple million people.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 month ago (6 children)

    Nothing is stopping you from making a community and then banning people until it is sufficiently echo-chambered for you. ML or Hexbear might even welcome you.

    I personally know several expats living in Sweden. I'm pretty aware of both sides of the discussion. From the outside, it comes off mostly tone-deaf, but with some real points around failing to integrate immigrants. There's also a significant amount of FUD and interference trolling, riling people up.

    For people living in Sweden, it's a hotbed of controversy as the places you consider safe are changing around you.

    Would anti-immigraition accepted in open arms in lemmy general social forums? Absolutely not.

    But if you want your own echo chamber, there are places that would allow it.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago* (5 children)

    Was that a response to me? I definently don't want to own the discussions. I just said people want to discuss it and Lemmy is not a good place for it.

    People will discuss it on reddit. It's fine. :)

    About Sweden, yes it's a "hotbed" to say the least, the same as in Europe overall. Its not popular with massive immigration but since we can't discuss that here, let's not.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    If you want random people across the world to validate Sweden's distaste for immigrants, no, you won't like the outcome here.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

    Again with the validate. :) Do you get your opinions validated here by random Lemmy users?

    About immigration, why can't people dislike immigration by muslims for example? It's happening all over Europe and im actually curious why you and others think it's an opinion people shouldn't have. Is it because you don't care about the culture in your own country?

    Is it because you don't think it changes the culture of a country, or that you are fine with the changes?

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  • [–] 1 point 1 month ago

    It’s a double edged sword you’re waving. For example while gay acceptance has dropped in the last decade, the major opponents to immigration are happy to collude with white-power hate groups.

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  • [–] 2 points 1 month ago (4 children)

    but it can’t handle discussions that adults wants to have

    We already had the discussion on "immigration" and "undesirables" and other right-wing dogwhistles in the 1940s. Didn't end too well for them. The problem is, we have forgotten the ancient texts.

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  • [–] -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

    The kind of immigration we had in the 40s was way different than the one we have nowadays though. Come to Italy and you'll see what l mean. You would be scared to walk alone at night.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 month ago* (1 child)

    Careful, your colours are showing.

    The kind of immigration countries like Italy face today is exactly the one they asked for: Europe raked Africa and parts of Asia (not to mention the Americas) with colonialism and imperialism for centuries, extracting produces and value for the shareholders while leaving behind famine, plague and war. The least they owe the African and American peoples is to take them in, the same way they took everything else from their lands.

    If not that, they should work to restore what they took or destroyed, in terms of not only economy but also society.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 month ago

    I don't agree with your vision. I agree with the fact that some European countries stole resources from Africa, but Italy in particular didn't rake pretty much anything: Italy didn't have big colonies until Mussolini tried to build his own empire after 1930, without much success anyway; they only made some mess in Libya and in the Horn of Africa, which are not even the places all those immigrants are coming from.

    Plus, the real problem is that there's somebody else currently raking Africa: it's China.

    Since China is coming out of poverty, they need somebody to take advantage of, and they decided to "colonize" Africa. Not real colonization like Europe did in previous centuries, but a silent control of their economy, slowly buying their politicians and their natural resources extraction companies.

    I don't think that the right reparations for what Europe did in the past is welcoming all kinds of immigrants with no control whatsoever.

    First, indiscriminate immigration leads to ghettos and poverty, and a lack of integration.

    Second, so many immigrants is the perfect way for far right wing parties to win elections, by appealing to the base instincts of people. Even worse now, because Russia is directly financing both far right wing parties and misinformation campaigns in general.

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