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[–] 58 points 2 months ago (78 children)

I'll be the first one to say that the current Democratic party needs replacing, but they're not wrong.

Or did everyone forget that you need a supermajority in the Senate to get past the Presidential veto?

Is anyone truly naive enough to think that Donald Trump would sign anything the Democrats put forward? The man who told Republicans to tank legislation with things they wanted in it to avoid giving Democrats a win?

Unless you're advocating for a revolution, you have to work within the system. And it's not the Democrats fault that is easier to break a thing than to fix it.

It's always easy to point out a problem. Solutions are what we need, and all this kind of post does is discourage left-leaning people from voting, which is what the Republicans want.

So unless you have something resembling an actual solution, this just seems like virtue signaling to me.

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  • [–] 38 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I will say that there's immense value in symbolism, performative values, and simply being caught trying by voters. Yes the President will veto anything good, but fucking make him do it. Go on social media and the talk shows to rip him a new one for all of the good things that he's actively preventing. Move the Overton Window. Change the terms of the public discourse.

    Governing long ago moved beyond mere parliamentary procedure; it also needs to be a show that the people in the cheap seats (a.k.a. low-information voters) can watch.

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  • [–] 38 points 2 months ago (56 children)

    they’re not wrong.

    Why can Republicans govern with a slim majority while Democrats consistently need a supermajority?

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago

    Republicans historically do not fucking govern. They give tax cuts to the oligarchs and otherwise have a concept of a plan in two weeks. They lie and lie and lie. They are the ones pushing the "gummit is borken" lie - and making sure it appears to be true.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago (10 children)

    Because they also have the office of the president.

    Currently anyway.

    If one party controls both houses of congress and the president and has a sympathetic Supreme Court majority they can do a lot more than if they only have one or 2 of those things.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (9 children)

    Because they also have the office of the president.

    "We need a supermajority" was a response Democrats gave in 2009 and 2021.

    If one party controls both houses of congress and the president

    Did Republicans pass legislation they supported between 2011 and 2017 5? Did they pass legislation they supported between 2023 and 2025?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (8 children)

    So here’s some basics on how the American government works.

    The house can pass a bill with a simple majority.

    So can the senate. In the event of a tie, the vice president casts the tie breaking vote.

    However, the senate rules are such that in order to get to a vote you need vote to close debate, which takes 60 votes.

    There are exceptions to the 60 vote rule using what’s called budget reconciliation. Matters pertaining just to budgetary items can bypass the 60 vote threshold and be voted on by a simple majority. These items must be cleared with the senate parliamentarian.

    Once a bill has passed both the senate and the house, the president can either sign it or just wait 10 days and do nothing, at which point that bill becomes a law. He can also veto the bills at which point it gets sent back to both the house and senate which can override his veto with a 2/3 vote in both the house and senate.

    If you want to pass a bill over the objections of the president you need two thirds of both the senate and house to agree to do it. If you want to get a bill through the senate that goes beyond budget reconciliation you need 60 senate votes.

    When people talk about a supermajority they may be referring to the 60 votes needed to pass unrestricted bills in the senate, which the democrats had in 2008-2010 when they got Obamacare passed. Or if they are talking about overriding a veto they may be talking about the 2/3 of the votes you’d need in the house AND senate.

    I’m not interested in debating who said what about what when, it just seemed like some people were unaware of the actual rules of how the US federal government functions and hoped to clear that up. If you have any questions about how that stuff works I’m happy to address it with the best of my knowledge. But I have no interest in actually debating politics online.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    So here’s some basics on how the American government works.

    None of this seems to apply when a Republican is in office

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    All of this applies. It’s why republicans were able to pass tax cuts via reconciliation but not the SAVE act. They would have needed to change the filibuster rule and they couldn’t get the 50 votes needed to do it.

    If you want to make long term changes to this country you need to control both houses of congress and the presidency. 2026 elections can change the former but not the latter. Which means dems will be able to stop the insanity but they’re not going to be able to make major changes until they can overcome the veto power. They need to have a democratic president.

    Look, I’m sure you’re passionate about change and want to make a difference, but if you’re not going to get your facts straight and just dismiss everyone who disagrees with you with pithy comments then you’re never going to get enough people on your side to do that. Not enough people will take you seriously and you’ll just end up being spoiler votes that keep people like Trump in power.

    This will be my last post in this thread.

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  • [–] 25 points 2 months ago (40 children)

    The democratic party accomplished all of its goals during the biden administration: they sold weapons for genocide.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 months ago (16 children)

    Petty concessions do not obscure the overt imperialist oppression.

    "I don't care about the fact we support genocide so long as I get better quality of life."

    What a fucked mentality. Go find your solidarity with the oppressed.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (15 children)

    He doesn't care about quality of life as long as he gets his genocide.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago (13 children)

    You don't care who wins as long as anti-genocide candidates aren't on the ballot.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (11 children)

    Abuse: for when centrists can't defend their only policy.

    You need to update your script. Criticizing biden isn't helping trump win. The election is over and genocide won like you want in all cases.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

    You literally said I was helping trump win by criticizing the genocidal shit you worship after the election was over.

    I don't believe for an instant that there is anything in this world that you want but the extinction of the Palestinian people.

    Your "take your meds" gaslighting is what you use instead of actual arguments because your position is indefensible.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

    I’m arguing for preventing harm and saving lives

    It's neat how "preventing harm" always involves letting through the harm centrists want.

    not discouraging others who are trying to rally support for the better candidates, etc.

    There is no "better" when both available candidates support genocide. There's only "worst" and "second worst."

    You have decided no other approach than yours is acceptable

    Genocide is unacceptable. Not to you, though.

    and therefore everybody who makes you feel uncomfortable must be genocidal murderers.

    Not everyone is comforted by genocide like you.

    But the problem is that feeling of discomfort is caused by your own failure to understand the world.

    I understand it fine. My opposition to the only thing you stand for, have ever stood for, or will ever stand for is not a lack of understanding.

    Go delete your account, that’s the fastest way you can improve the world right now.

    Telling me to kill myself in veiled language so it's acceptable to the moderation team. Neat.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)
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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago (20 children)

    People hate when you say it, but the Democratic Party is Controlled Opposition.

    A bunch of them are just paid to lose.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (13 children)

    “A bunch” is roughly three. Sinema, Fetterman, and, uh…

    If you can't name more than two Senators... Jesus, dude. Maybe start with Henry Cuellar and Bob Menendez. Ritchie Torres. Elissa Slotkin. Eric Swalwell. Josh Gottheimer. Do I really need to make you the full list?

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (11 children)

    Whenever there is a democratic majority, just enough Democrats will turn to make any actual change impossible, like a public option with Obama. Or when the blue dog Democrats fucked healthcare reform under Clinton. It's happened every time and will continue to happen because the ratchet effect is a feature that always ends in facism and oligarchy, which is where you make your real money.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    Biden got more progressive change through

    He did not. He got more "bipartisan" changes, and we've lowered the bar for what that means

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

    Kutter points out that “Joe Biden is the first president in recent memory to press for significantly higher taxes on the very rich.”

    Individual tax rates did not change under Biden

    This couple with the tangible benefits provided through his America Recovery Act, the Building Back Better Initiative and Infrastructure Investment Act; could help Democrats in 2024 among swing voters

    None of these were progressive. They were all tax benefits and grants to big business, specifically in the tech industry. And these businesses were largely aligned with the Trump coalition.

    Also, Jesus Christ, please include a "Jump to Recipe" on this article so I can find your points without an hour of scrolling.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    The ratchet effect is real, but it's because when the Dems have a majority they're relying on West Virginia. Republicans kiss the ring or they're kicked from politics, just look at Ted Cruz.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago

    when the Dems have a majority they’re relying on West Virginia

    They're relying on a billionaire scion of a coal dynasty. Plenty of working class labor friendly people in WV. But the Dem Senate committee won't touch any of them.

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  • [–] 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

    The thing is that many people are looking too short-sightedly for the internal (non-revolution-like) reform path. The goal for change is 2028, but change in 2028 can't get off the ground running, if a 2026 sweep doesn't. (I wish you had a Westminster system with no-confidence votes, but alas).

    What Congress can do is to compel Trump administration officials to get their asses into the chamber. They can put articles and lawsuits with appropriate standing to:

    • Halt ballroom construction.
    • Halt reckless and unnecessary tariffs.
    • Halt the endless war spending on the unauthorized military adventure Iran.
    • Halt funding for Israel.
    • Abolish/stymie/revoke funding from ICE.
    • Have the DoJ release the Epstein files.
    • Assess Trump's mental state and capacity to lead.
    • Release funding that Congress allocated but the Trump admin is withholding or disbursing unevenly (e.g. FEMA)
    • Collect evidence to make the case to impeach the justices or reform the Supreme Court in 2028.

    Congress under leadership of feckless Republicans and sometimes Democrats haven't asserted the power of the purse. For budgetary matters, votes can be held without permanently removing the cloture rule. And if Trump refuses to sign a bill voted on D-party lines to fund the government while implementing changes, the government will shut down once again and the bill will await him on the desk until he signs it. He will try to shift blame as he always does, but the government has shutdown led by Republicans or Democrats, the common thread is his incompetent ass in charge for most of the time since 2016.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 months ago

    I don't think that OP is expecting Democrats or Progressives to get things through the Trump administration without a supermajority that can override his veto. What we are hoping for/expecting is that Democrats and Progressives to say "Fuck you, we're passing this bill and sending it on."

    Medicare for All? "Fuck you we're passing this bill, veto it motherfucker!". Taxing rich people? "Fuck you we're passing this bill, veto this PDF". Repealing the Medicare cuts? "Hey, asshole, we passed it, oh and go fuck yourselves". Repeal the procedural filibuster? "Fuck it, we'll do it live!". Impeachment? "Hey, it's Tuesday, this asshole just did something unbecoming of the office, guess it's time to have another impeachment hearing, oh and fuck you, that's why."

    Just try instead of rolling over on day one, what we're asking for even if you know it's destined to fail and show that you're willing to do the work. Back your shit up with actions instead of just words of "Well it'll never pass so we'll never try". Say what you will about Republicans, when they get in power, they do not give a fuck and will introduce every bad idea in their head and dare the President to veto it and that's why their base votes for them consistently.

    That's what OP I think is asking people to remember.

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  • [–] 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    They never, ever need a super majority. EVER.

    That rule can be changed at any time by simple majority vote. That cloture rule is a parliamentary rule and is not law.

    Don't be duped. Please look at what they call "the nuclear option."

    There are over 180 exceptions to the super majority so far (last time I checked a few years ago).

    (fun fact: the "nuclear option" was first called that by Trent Lott, a Republican, in the 2000s. Both parties immediately adopted the term because it scares the shit out of voters. What was it called before that? "the constitutional option").

    Don't be a sucker. If they want to pass something, viola! It's an exception (like our budgets). If they don't want to pass something, but they want the voters to think that they do, "oh no, we need a super majority, super sorry we tried so hard!"

    The solution is very simple. No other nation requires super majority votes for a reason.

    No laws need to be changed.

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  • [–] 21 points 2 months ago

    You are thinking of filibuster, which I agree is just like you're saying.

    However, they were talking about overriding the presidential veto, which is specifically defined in Article 1, Section 7 of the Constitution as needing a 2/3 majority in both houses. Not a simple majority. You also cannot adopt a rule that supersedes the Constitution.

    Here's the specific paragraph that I copied from Wikipedia

    Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

    you need a supermajority in the Senate to get past the Presidential veto?

    And the threat of filibuster, it's a double-whammy

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 child)

    They can make the filibuster be an actual Mr-Smith-Goes-To-Washington event again and fucking FORCE those fucking assholes to stand up there and talk for 24 hours straight. The change in filibuster behavior, which Republicans enacted, to just table anything that the other side said would be filibustered, should end. And spineless Democrats should do it and take credit for doing it, and look like they give a damn again.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (4 children)

    If you think the only role of a political party is to pass laws, you are lost.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I don't recall where I said that was the only role for a political party.

    It's really easy to point out a problem, like "the Democratic party has issues and hasn't delivered in the past"

    But unless you're bringing solutions, too, then you're just playing into the opposition's plan: Get opposing voters to be apathetic so they don't vote.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    Giving people hope is not a legislative project, it is a political one, one which the corporate-led Democratic Party has remarkably and consistently and repeatedly failed at.

    Leftist policy and, just as important, rhetoric is the solution. The Left can't do world building without institutional support.

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