726
They punch left to protect and defend the right (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 months ago by to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
113 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/51582749

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 2 points 2 months ago (9 children)

You were calling me out for discussing American Politics as an American. I personally think I'm entitled to an opinion on my own fucking country's politics, especially when I'm in a position to do something.

All you assholes seem to do is insist that we magic a fix thay cannot happen overnight.

And yeah, 2 years ago we told people to vote against Trump no matter who. But you motherfuckers spent the whole time saying Kamala's nomination wasn't fair, or that the Dems were no worse than the GOP. And it worked and millions stayed home instead of voting for Harris.

That lead dorectly to every fucking thing that's happened under Trump's watch, from wars of choice to gestapo takeovers of American cities, to the murder of hundreds of civilians in fishing boats, to worldwide economic catatrophe, to the deaths of millions from USAID cuts, to the collapse of food safety regulations, and so, so much more.

People like you have blood on your hands.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 9 child comments
    •
  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (7 children)

    You were calling me out for discussing American Politics as an American. I personally think I’m entitled to an opinion on my own fucking country’s politics, especially when I’m in a position to do something.

    Nope, I was (and am) calling you out for pushing the status quo in a broken system. Unlike you people I don't expect you to stop talking or thinking.

    All you assholes seem to do is insist that we magic a fix thay cannot happen overnight.

    Once again, not from me. I am stating that you all need to start something or you will be in the same place you are now forever.

    And yeah, 2 years ago we told people to vote against Trump no matter who. But you motherfuckers spent the whole time saying Kamala’s nomination wasn’t fair, or that the Dems were no worse than the GOP. And it worked and millions stayed home instead of voting for Harris.

    Second highest voter turn out in your nations history, but hey since I also never told people to stay home and not vote, you are not only wrong but wrong in multiple ways. The people saying the nomination was not fair where correct, but so what? You had the turn out and more of you americans voted for the yellow king. The world watched him make speeches right from a Mussolini style rally yet you all still voted for that, and instead of any tiny amount of introspection as to why that happened you say shit like that.

    That lead dorectly to every fucking thing that’s happened under Trump’s watch, from wars of choice to gestapo takeovers of American cities, to the murder of hundreds of civilians in fishing boats, to worldwide economic catatrophe, to the deaths of millions from USAID cuts, to the collapse of food safety regulations, and so, so much more.

    Yes it did, and once again, why do you think it is that people given two choices (the status quo or to burn it all down in a wild racist final ride) they picked the yellow man claiming he would do all of that? You are all way to used to just blaming the other team and hand waving any sort of responsibility.

    People like you have blood on your hands.

    Ok that is funny.

    One, I am sure I do. Why you think you can sit on any sort of high horse as an american is peak comedy.

    Two, and I am not sure why I have to keep reiterating this, I never once have told people not to vote. I feel its the least, the very least someone can do. You have painted me as some sort of enemy in your head that you have made for anyone who does not fit into your ideals, something you should understand is very very dangerous.

    Three, and this one is the big one. You have the blood on your hands, we are not all american, you are. You have spent your entire life living in a society that tried to dictate what others should and could do, played world police, pushed everyone around, and called out evil when you thought you all saw it. Now it is your turn in the hot seat, and all I see is excuses and digging deeper.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago (6 children)

    I've spent 30 years fighting to make the world a better place. I've volunteered endlessly. I've worked for non-profits and government agencies. I've supported progressive polticial candidates monetarily and through volunteer work. I've been academically published for my work in environmental science. I've had an AK pointed at my head while delivering medical supplies in South America.

    I pull my weight trying to make things better. And I also understand that we have an entrenched system that, while very broken, also has mechanisms built in to change it.

    The biggest hurdle we have right now is a 2-party system that right now is a choice between center-right and fascist authoritarianism. As a leftist, I don't love either choice, but I also understand that if we continue to elect the fascists that we won't have an opportunity to move the country leftward. So I hold my nose, vorlte Democrat in the general election, and support leftist candidates in the primaries.

    And that's the whole secret. Vote left in the primaries and vote Democrat in the General. And our failure tondo that is why we're in such a shithole situation. In 2000, if just 1% of the Green Party Voters in Florida had voted for Democrat instead of Nader, George W Bush would never have been President. Think about all the harm caused by just a few people deciding Al Fucking Gore wasn't enough of an environmentalist.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (5 children)

    And there lies the trap, you all don't really have a choice do you?

    You are right, your biggest hurdle is the two party system. Your next issue stems from that, you blame people who don't vote for a party you also don't really agree with. This is not rational but here you are, stuck and unwilling to do anything else. It is telling you reference an election so long ago (2000 if my memory is right is 26 years ago) that it is hardly even in the same ecosystem of shit you are in today.

    You have all went so far past the point that doing damage control by voting dem means much (a reason they keep losing is that its been the request for so long people resent it). You are all so far lost that your own people are voting to distroy everything just to feel like they have a choice, but they dont, not at least in a meaningful way. Because the underlying issue is still there, voting dem may delay the process but not stop it as the dems don't have any incentive to fix things, its their whole platform gone if they do.

    So yes, please vote left in the primaries, vote dem when you have no other choice. But please push for new parties, support them, lean on your state to push back on federal control, to the point of separation if possible. You can't just keep telling people to do the same things that are not working and be getting upset when even the idea of anything else is presented. Because you will at this rate and course never address the issues, it will never be the "right" time and as you do damage control things will keep sliding.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (4 children)

    Without a true parliamentary system or ranked choice voting, there will always be a 2-party system. It's an unavoidable feature of our voting and legislative system. And both parties benefit from keeping it as a 2-party system and will never support legislation that changes it. It would require a fundamental change that I support, but is politically impossible for the foreseeable future.

    In the meantime, supporting third parties I agree with results in wars of choice and gestapo. So I instead support candidates as nominees for the party that is less harmful.

    Changing the 2-party system is essentially impossible. Changing the parties themselves is easy. Look at how much worse the GOP managed to get in just the last 20 years.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (3 children)

    It’s an unavoidable feature .... I instead support candidates as nominees for the party that is less harmful.

    Not unavoidable, not impossible and you are just pushing the problem down the road in the best case. You are at the end of that road, your midterms will let us all know if you even have the ability to vote them out (I assume its not going to go as well as anyone hopes).

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (2 children)

    Name a country with a legislative and electoral system like the US that hasn't broken down into a 2-party system. The US's system was designed specifically not to give parties power, and it broke into a 2-party system in the first month's of the first Presidential administration.

    Yes - the specific parties have changed, but not since before the Civil War, because it's easier to change the existing parties than to get new ones off the ground.

    Hell - the Republicans used to be the progressive party while the Democrats were the Southern slave-owning racist shitheads. Texas - the solid Republican stronghold - has only had 5 Republican governors in its history (one of which shouldn't really count since it was a Reconstruction governor), but has had 38 Democrats, and sent its first ever Republican-majority US House delegation to Congress in 2004.

    It's not because Texas became super conservative. It's because the parties changed.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    You are projecting your issues on other nations, The 2 party issue is almost only an american issue (one you tend to try to spread).

    Even places that have 2 main parties don't have the same issue since they let other parties exist, the us does not. I can't think of another nation (that is not a single party state) with something as stupidly restrictive as the electoral collage and us style party system.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    The electoral college has been an issue from the beginning. We had an electoral tie just 12 years into the process, and the 1876 election was the biggest electoral clusterfuck in American history.

    But the problem we've had all along is how to address it. Constitutional Amendment is the solution, but that would require the parties who benefit from the system to change it, and that simply isn't going to happen. The most-recent Amendment (27th) was ratified by Maryland in 1789 and became law in 1992, and it was a no-brainer prohobiting Congress from giving themselves raises that took effect prior to the next House term.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago

    And their magic solution is always to do nothing, not support the Democrats, and see if total collapse is better than fixing anything.

    The crazy part is, you literally can't tell which ones are just teenager morons and which ones are literal fascists, because an adult fascist THINKS LIKE a fucking teenaged moron. So good luck sorting out which of these people means well but is a teenaged idiot, and which ones are the actual fascists.

    They make the same arguments with the same flawed logic because they have the same brain limitations.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent