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[+] [S] -8 points 4 months ago (22 children)
  • [–] 25 points 4 months ago (20 children)

    demsocs are liberals

    Clearly the liberals disagree.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (11 children)

    Well its liberal infighting. DemSocs mild reformist approach is too much left for the centrists that unironically praised Reagan, so the DNC then fights the DSA harder than they fought Trump.

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  • [–] -1 points 4 months ago (10 children)

    I get that from your perspective the DemSocs are mild reformists, but from the perspective of people who are in the center of liberal ideology, the DemSocs seem radical. It's all relative. To you they're all just liberals, and you don't make a strong distinction between them, but the two groups see themselves as strongly distinct from one another. And thus, to my original point, that's why in any other democracy each would have their own separate party, instead of having to fight each other for control of one of only two parties.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    @TheDemonBuer Fully aware, but i was under the impression we are discussing it inside a radical left space? Liberalism already dominate 80% of online non chud spaces and i want to not pretend that someone like nancy pelosi is on the left.So yeah they themselves may see it that way but leftist do not.

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  • [–] -3 points 4 months ago

    i was under the impression we are discussing it inside a radical left space?

    Indeed. And since I'm not a radical leftist (even though, as we've already established, liberals would view me as such), I'll move along.

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  • [+] -1 points 4 months ago (8 children)
  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago

    @grinning_serpent WE already did have plenty of SocDem Countries including Germany, where even the conservative party CDU pushed for it in 1949de.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%BCsThose policies will always get overturned eventually. Think ofthe New Deal in the USA only took till the 70's to undo it and reagan to implement the opposite.Liberal policies cant work longterm its an historic fact.Also stop coming to leftist spaces and berate us for not thinkign like you.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (6 children)

    Socialist states have generally suffered as any country would under outside pressure, but fared better than capitalist peers to similar pressures.

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  • [+] 0 points 4 months ago (6 children)
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (5 children)

    While there was pressure from the outside, outside pressure did not kill the USSR. China changing since the time of Mao is a given, even if they followed the path of the Gang of Four to today, this would still look radically different from the era of Mao simply due to economic development. China of today is still a socialist economy. The DPRK survives because it is heavily millitarized and focuses on economic independence, with nuclear deterrence. Vietnam and Laos are both doing well as well. Cuba is still trucking along.

    As for "subjugation," I think it's better to understand why this happens and for what reason. Capitalist states eventually see a merging of bank and industrial capital, creating finance capital, and this monopoly stage of capitalism is what drives imperialism. Socialist states do not have such an economic drive. While conflict persists, there is more of a drive for cooperation, consolidation, and increasing sovereignty. This is not "Utopian," this is the recognition that centralization of production is economically compelled, which is why States have largely merged over the years, similar to corporations.

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  • [+] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)
  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    If the world were all on the same page, then production and distribution would be far better anyways, and the working classes in developed countries would also benefit. Working together works.

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  • [+] 1 point 4 months ago (4 children)
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    What point in time are you talking about? You're asking me to hit a moving target and make an outlandishy speculative claim. For what purpose?

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  • [+] 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    This is why I am asking you for a time period. The transition from capitalism to socialism in the imperialist countries would likely result in a shortage of endless cheap commodities, while expanding social safety nets. In the medium to long-term, quality of life would improve as the world would better be able to produce and distribute for everyone than is presently available. Imperialism holds the global south back from economic development for the short term gain of the imperial core, but a world aligned can better develop and produce.

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  • [+] 1 point 4 months ago (2 children)
  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (1 child)

    Why would I put an estimate on it?

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  • [–] 4 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Kinda. The establishment liberals are trying to discipline the social democrats and prevent them from gaining in influence. However, the social democrats are, at the moment, not actually in favor of establishing socialism nor doing what is required to do so. It's liberal infighting.

    The more millitent rank and file of the DSA is largely what's pushing this grassroots support in this wave, but without a correct analysis of the structure and role of the capitalist state the DSA's reformist strategy is a dead-end.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    It's liberal infighting.

    So I have been told by at least a dozen people with lemmy.ml handles.

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  • [–] [S] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Liberals also think they are on the left, so what the disagree on is irrelevant

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Here in the US people use liberal and left interchangeably out of ignorance. But the liberals being referenced in this story understand that they are not left wing which is why they refer to themselves as "centrists." Demsocs are to their left. Demsocs might be to your right, but demsocs are definitely left wing in the context of US politics. We have established over and over again that to more radical people such as yourself, demsocs are "just liberals" and not left wing. That's fine, that's your perspective. The liberals who call themselves centrists have a different perspective, and theirs is far more common in US politics than yours, and therefore it is very relevant to anyone who cares about what's happening in US politics.

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  • [–] [S] 4 points 4 months ago

    Demsocs being to their left is as meaningless as Democrats being to the left of Republicans when they all defend the same systems of oppression and want to work within the lose systems

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