1151
Desensitization to guns (lemmy.world)
submitted 5 months ago by to c/whitepeopletwitter@sh.itjust.works
265 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 155 points 5 months ago (105 children)

I don't think Americans quite appreciate how few guns one encounters when you are practically anywhere else in the world.

The only guns I see in my life are in possession of trained professionals. And even then it's a lot if I see one per three months.

I've never been in a situation in my life where I've regretted not having a gun. Rather the opposite, I've been struggling with depression at a point in my life where access to a gun might have provided an easy way out.

And generally I like guns. As in I've been interested in military history for my entire life. When I'm the us I've been to a shooting range and thought that was cool (but also terrifying).

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • hideshow 105 child comments
    •
  • [–] 94 points 5 months ago (58 children)

    I don't think non-Americans appreciate how few guns one encounters in America if one isn't a gun nut or gun-nut-adjacent. It is not that everybody owns a gun. It's that the relative few people who own dozens or hundreds of guns skew the average.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 58 child comments
    •
  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago (13 children)

    All of our street cops are also carrying guns around, which (if I'm not mistaken) is not the case everywhere.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 13 child comments
    •
  • [–] 15 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Years ago, the UK government announced they were going to arm the general police. The people with the biggest issue with it was the police union!

    The UK has a police by consent basis. The heaviest firepower they carry is a tazer. If there is a risk of guns being involved, the normal police pull back and call in the armed response officers. When they do, however, they call the whole cavalry!

    End result, criminals don't feel they MUST have a gun to defend from the police. Conversely, going in armed will bring the whole, focused weight of the armed response down on you. (As in multiple helicopter level searches) Most don't carry guns, and so the status quo keeps everyone safe.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
    load more comments (3 replies)
  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    I remember I visited Italy on a Latin class trip back in high school, and got a real culture shock when I saw carabinieri(?) patrolling the airport armed with some kind of assault rifles or SMGs. I don't remember seeing any "normal" police once I was out walking around in the cities so I have no idea if they would've been armed or not, but that was definitely heavier weaponry than I'd seen any American cop carrying, in the airport or otherwise.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
    load more comments (3 replies)
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    It's pretty common, I think only Ireland and Britain (among countries that people are likely to visit) don't carry guns.

    In fact, what's unusual is that in many places where civilian use of guns is extremely rare, police standing around with submachine guns in airports, train stations, etc. is common.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
    • load more comments (3 replies)
  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    Are we or are we not counting the fair few you don't see because they're concealed on the people around you?

    And yes the stats are absolutely skewed by gun nuts with big collections it's still true that 40% or more of American households have a gun...

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 12 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    There's fucking ammo at wallmart. You can't even comprehend how mindboggling that is in most countries

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    Why would it be mind boggling that a supermarket carry ammo? What is mind boggling is you can order a case online and have it to your doorstep in 2 days.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
    • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 10 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    But I'd feel uneasy not knowing which of them is the nutty one.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    A lot of the nutters tend to advertise it at least. Super gung-ho patriot driving an oversized truck with Trump and flag stickers, maybe an actual flag, possibly open carrying, yard with one or multiple trump signs and likely American flags in case you forget which country you’re in, probably some cars on the lawn as decoration… you get the picture

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    Yeah, I think I get it, but I don't want to share the planet with them as well.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Yeah.. can’t say I’m the biggest fan of living in an area where I have several examples within walking distance of me, it has left me feeling slightly on edge at times. I don’t think it’d be taken too kindly if I started to get outspoken about politics so I just let it be

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 62 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (16 children)

    I'll disagree. I've been mugged. There have also been two times I've visited friends that have been casually cleaning guns when I arrived. A person I do martial arts with has a conceal carry and has come in with it a few times. Every cop has at least one. There's a gun store that's on my commute route. I was hiking and crossed paths with an elderly couple on horseback and they were packing. I've known two people that have killed themselves with a gun. I drilled with fake guns in NJROTC in high school and there were opportunities to train and compete in marksmanship with actual guns. I shot BB guns in Cub Scouts (those two are just examples as to how young gun culture becomes part of an American's life). When I was growing up, Walmart sold guns and ammo. They still do in certain places.

    I have to factor into my interactions with people if they have a gun. Like I put up with a lot more shitty behavior on the road because I live in a state with a high incidence of guns being involved with road rage incidents. If I get into an argument with my neighbor, is that conservative asshole going to do something stupid if things escalate (yeah yeah, don't escalate, just an example). All the POCs I know have been taught how to behave during a traffic stop to reduce their chances of getting shot by a cop.

    I've never even held or shot a real gun, but guns permeate my life.

    Edit: Christ, the people who are advocating fear of gun violence being good for society is how idiotic of a gun culture there is in the US.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 16 child comments
    •
  • [–] 23 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    It really depends on where you live in the USA. Where I live theres definitely people with guns but it’s unusual to see someone actually carrying one outside their home. Now my cousins live like 1-2 hours away (still in the same state) and it’s super common there for people to carry their gun on them at all times for some fucking reason. So my cousins are way more used to seeing guns than my siblings and I are

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
    load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 11 points 5 months ago (3 children)

    The possibility of getting shot has broadly convinced the general public to improve their own behavior.

    No. Guns give assholes carte blanche to be an asshole without consequences.

    Your argument makes no sense. We should deescalate but fear for our lives so we behave? Who's gonna escalate to put the fear into people? Rethink and try again.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Allow me to clarify: I don't want to ram someone off the road, I just want there to be a way to give feedback without it being escalated from there. Thumbs down, not finger up. Not that people who already drive like that give a shit about other people and any feedback lesser than a major accident. I'm real tired of the car culture here, too.

    We do this all the time when on foot. Somebody bumps into someone else, maybe somebody says sorry or watch where you're going. Or maybe someone decides to pull a gun. That's more what I'm getting at.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
    load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago (7 children)

    The possibility of getting shot has broadly convinced the general public to improve their own behavior.

    Pure nonsense. That is just regurgitating NRA propaganda, "an armed society is a polite society", when we know for objective fact that the opposite is true. Gun incidents happen more frequently in the US on a "spur of the moment" thing exactly because they are so prevalent. Arguments more frequently escalate into murder because of the presence of guns, while they don't in societies where guns are rarer.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 7 child comments
    •
    • load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    not in the hands or belts of police officers

    I'd like to just point out that this alone is a huge difference. Police in Europe generally do not carry firearms. It's even unusual to see them with weapons at an airport.

    I could be subject to police brutality from a random traffic stop technically, but I wouldn't have any chance of a gun being pulled on me.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Not in Europe generally. It is true for the UK, but not so much anywhere else. But even in European countries with armed police deescalation is still the pereferred method and they only rarely draw their guns or fire them, especially compared to the US where the police have been trained with overly aggressive lethal violence responses.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    Concealed is concealed. If we're seeing them, they're doing concealment wrong.

    We can look at the rate of licensing to get an idea of scale and prevalence.

    In 15 states, more than 1 in 10 adults have permits. Pennsylvania, ~1 in 6. Colorado, ~1 in 5. Indiana, over 22% of adults are licensed concealed carriers.

    Nationwide, 7.8% of adults are licensed. Outside CA and NY, 9.3% of adults are currently licensed.

    Licensing numbers peaked in 2022, but 29 states (Covering 47% of the population) have recently abandoned licensing requirements. The reduced number of licenses don't indicate falling carry rates.

    To me, the most interesting statistic from that link is almost overlooked: We all know that cops are under-prosecuted and under-convicted for their crimes. ACAB. Despite their cop-privilege, police are still convicted of gun crimes at 12 times the rate of licensed concealed carriers.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    They also kill around 1k people a year.... including suicides, 1 in 40 of all gun deaths are from the police. Take out the suicides, and it's down to 1 in 13.5/14... basically the cops kill a lot of people in the usa.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago

    Well, "relative few" is technically correct at about 45% of Americans. Now, way less than that carry, and even less with any regularity, and even less open carry, so yeah you probably don't see them often, but they're around.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
    • load more comments (9 replies)
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 14 points 5 months ago (5 children)

    I live in the south and I don’t know a single person who goes to a range ever. I think you are exaggerating.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 5 child comments
    •
  • [–] 15 points 5 months ago

    I think it's income dependent. Going to a shooting range and just tearing through ammo sounds expensive, and I've never done it, but I've known generational-farmer types who do it on a regular basis. They usually bring friends with them. I don't think most people in the south have been to a shooting range, but it doesn't strike me as terribly uncommon.

    I think it's a lot like having a boat. If you know a guy who has a boat, you're much more likely to go boating on the regular, and if you know a someone who has a lot of guns, you're more likely to go shooting with them.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 11 points 5 months ago (1 child)

    I'd say the majority of people in the states don't give a hoot about baseball, but it's still 'America's pastime.'

    >.>

    Plus, being in the south, why would they go to a range? A friend within an hour probably has property where you could shoot for free.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 1 child comment
    •
    • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] 8 points 5 months ago

    as a european, i went to the range a lot as a kid, because my dad's side of the family did game hunting back then and he wanted me to learn. this was exclusively with bolt-action long guns, because that's everything they allow. the process of getting the rifles out of the safe, packing them in locked bags, going to safe ranges far away in the woods, marking every bullet fired on a form, and collecting all the cartridges bored me to tears.

    later my dad got in a legal dispute with the police over firearms registration, because as a sporting goods salesman he had to make sure every part he sold had a laser-engraved serial number and it took months for them to finally get that you can't laser-engrave a 2mm spring.

    thank god for regulations.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 15 points 5 months ago (6 children)

    I lived in different countries. Many are friendly with actual neighborly caring folks. Like leave your car unlocked safe. Like if you lost your phone outside, someone will kindly put it somewhere safe. Countries with good safety nets and a government that wants to help people.

    Here in America, I'm not afraid of the pickpockets or petty theft. The biggest threats to my family's life are by police officers or ICE, all because of the color of their skin.

    I've been to protests where everyone was peaceful and it was violently dissolved by police. Where I've been to protests which had hired security guards packing guns protecting protesters, and the cops were on their best behavior.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 6 child comments
    •
  • [–] 7 points 5 months ago (4 children)

    Where I’ve been to protests which had hired security guards packing guns protecting protesters

    hwat

    i think you just discombobulated my brain

    What is this concept? Who does this? Where?

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
    •
    • load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (1 reply)
  • [–] a comment that isn't shown here: deleted, from someone you've blocked, or on another page. view the thread from it
  • [–] 13 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    I don't think there's much wildlife out there that poses a mortal threat. Bear spray works for most, even though more rural and Northern countries do allow shotguns for use against wildlife.

    You don't really need a handgun in your desk to scare off bears tbh

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
  • [–] 5 points 5 months ago

    The only guns I see in my life are in possession of trained professionals. And even then it’s a lot if I see one per three months.

    Here in my country (in Europe), you can just go to any important train station or public place and there'll be a bunch of soldiers doing fuck all with guns in their belts. They're just meant to stand there and look intimidating lmao. I've never even seen them bother immigrants or anything (that's the police's job)

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago* (3 children)

    I don't think people who don't live in the US appreciate the concept of Pandora's box.

    I hear a lot of people talk about how bad guns are. How Americans are crazy to own them. How guns need to be made illegal here.

    There are literally more guns than people in the United States of America. They aren't going away.

    If we could Thanos snap half the guns away, it would solve nothing. If we could Thanos snap all of them, then hey! Yes! Let's talk.

    But we can't do that. Guns are just part of life over here. We actually do appreciate how dangerous they are, because we see violence done with them all the time... But there's no easy solution here. Criminals all have guns. Even kids in gangs have guns.

    If you live in an area that has a lot of crime, you may want a gun, and that is okay so long as you're trained and responsible.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 3 child comments
    •
    load more comments (3 replies)
  • [–] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

    I lived half my life in New York and saw a gun once. I lived the other half in Paris and also saw a gun once. I'm now in Paris and there's a gun range a few blocks away from me.

    🤷

    Edit: actually nevermind, plutopos just reminded me I see guns all the fucking time in Paris because we have soldiers patrolling the streets with assault rifles, I'm so desensitized to it it completely slipped my mind.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

    The number of engineering/design choices that go into guns is fascinating. A P90 and an AK-47 have so many different design choices that it's incredible they do basically the same thing.

  • permalink
  • fedilink
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
    •
    • load more comments (1 reply)
    • load more comments (6 replies)