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[–] 147 points 7 months ago (82 children)

I'm over 40.

I gave up Bill Cosby. I gave up Kevin Spacey. I gave up all of the 80s and 90s movies about toxic masculinity and misogyny. I gave up Aerosmith (maybe Steven Tyler hasn't been canceled yet but COME ON have you heard the lyrics to any single one of his songs). I gave up Michael Richards (and Seinfeld too). I gave up Michael Jackson.

You can give up Harry Potter. It's the right thing to do, it's worth it, and it's the adult decision. Grow up and check your allegiances. They'll define you.

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  • [–] 59 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Might want to rethink Michael Jackson. A lot of what he’s been accused of turned out to be an Epstein smear campaign when he interfered with their ops. McCauley Caulkin spoke out about this recently.

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  • [–] 29 points 7 months ago (3 children)
  • [–] 25 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Mac culkin and Corey Feldman have both talked about MJ positively many times in the past few years.

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  • [–] 28 points 7 months ago

    Corey Feldman is the reason I don't believe the accusations against MJ. What that kid went through is horrific and predators can smell prey a mile away. If Michael was abusing kids there is no way he would have missed that one, Corey would have been an easy target after what they did to him. But Corey comes out and tries to shine a light on the things that are happening and specifically says that Michael never did anything inappropriate.

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  • [–] 31 points 7 months ago

    I mean that's great and all but a real source would be nice. Someone who was a kid speaking nicely about someone accused of harming kids, isn't an exoneration. That's like Kanye saying Nick Fuentes isn't racist.

    Note not taking either side on the topic. I don't know or really care that much on MJ, an actual useful source would be say an epstein letter where epsteins announcing they want to make MJ look guilty. Fully plausible that MJ's scandal was a combination of people saying he's weird, with a few chasing a paycheck. But someone who fits the demographic saying "I was around him for years and I was never abused", is IMO not evidence.

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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I always knew it was a set-up. I looked up to him as a kid, and people made fun of me for it, but I never believed the things they said about him.

    He had a troubled past, he was eccentric and effeminate and that already made him a target for hate, but he genuinely seemed to care about kids and wanted to offer them a better childhood than the one he had.

    It was a recipe for a PR shitstorm, especially when you throw "trying to disrupt an actual billionaire pedo ring funded by mossad" into the mix...

    He didn't destroy McCauley, though. The publicity did. Imagine how confusing it must be to a child, to be torn away from your mentor, possibly the only person who sees you as a human and values you as such, who understands what a personal hell being a child star can be. All because he was accused of doing things to you, and the rest of the adults don't seem to care what you have to say about it...

    And then having to finish growing up without your mentor, with all the meanness of the world amplified by fame and stigma, when no one will get near you or even mention your name except to make fun of you, and they all do it with this self-righteous smugness as if they're convinced to their bones that they're better than you, and they feel completely morally justified in their judgements, too...

    Yeah, I never thought MJ was the bad guy. It's a bit of a relief to hear his name has been cleared after all these years, even if it's come too late. If he were alive today, I wonder if he would've ever come out as trans. I can only speculate now, as only he could ever make that determination for himself.

    Anyway, I still remember listening on the radio when he was in the hospital, in cardiac arrest, and then being declared dead. It was a sad day for me. I think it was drug-related though, so I wonder if it still would've happened if he wasn't so hated. Or if he hadn't been so abused himself as a child. Again, just speculation, now...

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    That entire paragraph breaks my brain.

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  • [–] 82 points 7 months ago (12 children)

    I'm not giving up the books I bought decades ago and before she outed herself as an idiot.

    I'm not stopping enjoying the stories that helped me to grow into the person I am today.

    I'm not pretending that as a gay kid having a positive gay role model in Dumbledore wasn't a wonderful thing.

    I am not giving her anymore money.

    I am not supporting her an anyway.

    You can hate a person's opinions and still love their art.

    Its almost like everyone is human and capable of holding contradictory ideas.

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  • [–] 41 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

    While you’re keeping an open mind then You can also expand your options to include artists who don’t have to be an asshole.

    Separate the artist from the art doesnt just have to happen if they are an asshole.

    There’s like a plethora of magic school books and films and tv series especially circa 2012 onward to dig into by other artists trying to compete. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to give them a chance.

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  • [–] 11 points 7 months ago (10 children)
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  • [–] 44 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (6 children)

    Piracy = popularity. The big studios take torrent popularity as a metric these days. Even if you're not paying for the show, everyone seeding and downloading that torrent is being used as a sign by the industry that they should keep giving Rowling money which she, in turn, uses to harm people.

    Pirating her content is still making her rich, while also granting her a deeper foothold in your own media environment, heart, and mind. You deserve better, and you can do better.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Torrents aren't the only form of piracy.

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  • [–] 9 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    You can give up Harry Potter. It’s the right thing to do, it’s worth it, and it’s the adult decision.

    It's a children's story. I don't think you're asking for people to leap over mountains by giving up childhood things as an adult.

    At the same time, people seem to fixate on the consumerist aesthetics and ignore the material realities. If you've got transgender friends and family that you support with your time and care and money, and you want to flip through an old dog-eared copy of Philosopher's Stone (or rewatch The Usual Suspects or throw on an episode of Fat Albert) because of nostalgia, I don't think you're committing any kind of grievous sin.

    JK Rowling isn't going to stop being a billionaire because you played a HP themed video game or watched an episode of her rebooted book show on HBO.

    Meanwhile, abstaining from all things problematic, without doing anything materially positive for any of the LGBTQ folks in your life isn't doing anyone any favors. Being a Consumerist Harpy who only knows how to scream at people for their mass media of choice, in the name of LGBTQ, is turning civil advocacy into some kind of branding exercise.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    Rowling spends almost every bit of income she gets on funding anti-transgender organisations and literal fascists (such as Posie Parker), whose lobbying efforts have turned every major British party against transgender healthcare, resulting in transgender healthcare becoming practically inaccessible through legal means with waiting lists lasting decades.

    In terms of its material impact, buying HP merch is equivalent to buying a swastika flag from a neonazi store. You can be assured that every cent of profit will go to funding fascism. The only difference is the aesthetic of having HP merch versus having nazi merch.

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Meanwhile, abstaining from all things problematic, without doing anything materially positive for any of the LGBTQ folks in your life isn't doing anyone any favors. Being a Consumerist Harpy who only knows how to scream at people for their mass media of choice, in the name of LGBTQ, is turning civil advocacy into some kind of branding exercise.

    See also: Tesla

    I don't know if you're trying to call me out or not, but I can assure you I am quite active in advocacy and direct action for queer folks in my life and ib my community. I'm not interested in writing up a resumΔ— about it, but I'm not the tree to bark up with that one.

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago (1 child)

    I can assure you I am quite active in advocacy and direct action for queer folks in my life and ib my community

    Which is great. A lot of folks are.

    It's also great to hear what they're doing with their free time, as a positive rejoinder to "HP is toxic".

    More interested in new progressive media than a 10 year old argument about a book that came out 20 years ago.

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  • [–] 0 points 7 months ago (45 children)

    Yeah, and let's not forget that Harry Potter is a series of books written for literal children.

    It's time to grow up and read something written for actual adults. You might be surprised to find that HP is actually kind of shit.

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  • [+] 22 points 7 months ago (43 children)
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  • [+] 17 points 7 months ago (37 children)
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  • [+] 9 points 7 months ago (35 children)
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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    How does one accurately identify something as being specifically for children and children only?

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    i'd like to know this as well but i doubt there can be a definite answer. sometimes you can tell an obvious difference between 'for children' and 'suitable for children' but it's not always clear.

    personally i'd say e.g. paw patrol, my little pony, harry potter are for children and e.g. the witches, watership down, lord of the rings are suitable for children. but there must be a big grey area rather than a clear divide

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    Even if we can accurately identify something as being for children, that something would likely have been produced by very passionate adults, and approved by other adults for publication. Do these adults get a pass from being shamed for their interest in children's content?

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago

    no, of course not as long as it's a genuine effort and not a cynical cash grab (there has been something of a backlash against celebrities knocking out children's books). so it's not the producers but the fans of it that come in for criticism. one complicating factor is that in older media children were not taken for idiots. the examples i used as suitable for children (except maybe lord of the rings when perhaps i should have said the hobbit? i'm not familiar) were written specifically for children but who could honestly look down on an adult for enjoying them. whereas if you're hurtling into middle age and still really into dora the explorer or similar that's obviously weird. but e.g. twilight? i still think you should have grown out of that but it's in the grey area

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  • [+] 10 points 7 months ago (25 children)
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  • [–] 7 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    I can understand shaming people for supporting JK Rowling, but shaming people for reading at or below their reading level just feels like pointless bullying. For what reason? What's the goal of doing that?

    I've read Heidegger, but my favorite books that I enjoy going back to reread for fun are at a 5th grade reading level. Do you feel the same way about adults who enjoy cartoons? Is partaking in easy/unchallenging comforts immature in your mind? If so, why? If not, where does this perspective come from?

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  • [–] 4 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    No, I didn't know what you meant, and I think all the hate you're getting suggests you're doing a poor job of communicating effectively and it's not a me-problem.

    I'm not trying to be disingenuous, but I do see that I've conflated reading level with target audience, but my initial argument still stands if we swap that out. When I said I enjoy reading books at a 5th grade reading level, I meant books whose target audience is middle schoolers.

    Consuming "childish" media β‰  refusing to grow up. I think that's a very important distinction to make, and your comments in this thread seem to be conflating the two. At the same time though, what's wrong with "refusing to grow up"? Why is it so important to you that others be mature?

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (6 children)

    This perspective is so foreign to me. It's a valid opinion ofc, which I can respect, but I don't respect the overt judgement- it's the needless shitting on people that I think is a problem, and it honestly comes across as insecure and, ironically, a little immature.

    In my clinical experience as a therapist, it's often actually an indication of health for adults to partake in such things.

    You talk like your perspective is the natural default, but I think it's not, and I think this says a lot more about you than it does others.

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (4 children)

    I... assume their inner world is that of a child's.

    if someone never makes it past their teens...

    Consuming media designed for a younger audience does not inherently mean these things, and in fact likely only ever very rarely does

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  • [–] 3 points 7 months ago (2 children)

    Well, no- this part isn't about opinion. You're just wrong about this part. Agree to disagree on the rest though, sure

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  • [–] 2 points 7 months ago

    I can't imagine what a healthy adult could possibly get out of that.

    Joy. What one person gets joy out of another person may not get joy out of and that's fine. But when you attempt to be the Theif of joy just because you don't like where a person is getting it from (even when that hurts literally no one), to the point where you think it's okay to shame them for it (which is basically bullying), I have to wonder a lot about not just your motives but your attempt to rationalize your own behavior.

    Just because you don't do something doesn't mean it's not okay for other people. Your arbitrary deductions about their choices don't entitle you to judge them or to try to penalize them just because you would have done differently.

    It costs you nothing to let people enjoy the things they want to enjoy when they aren't hurting you.

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  • [–] 10 points 7 months ago (11 children)

    You are equating adults reading YA novels to "fascists, abusers, bigots, the ultra wealthy, etc."

    It's time to admit your argument may have gone off the rails at some point.

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  • [–] 8 points 7 months ago (9 children)

    Reading YA novels does not mean they have a "child's mind". Rest and relaxation are also things to value, people cannot be "on" 100% of the time and having unchallenging fiction as a way to unwind is a better use of time than social media. (Speaking of holding up mirrors...)

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  • [–] 6 points 7 months ago (7 children)

    A non-mentally disabled adult spending this much time judging imagined people on Facebook/Reddit/Lemmy for a single activity they do in their spare time is not someone you should take life advice from.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (5 children)

    Time that would have been better spent watching Sesame Street, you might have learned how to get along with others.

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  • [–] 5 points 7 months ago (3 children)

    Then you might learn how to get along with adults. A skill you are lacking.

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