Sanctus comments on We are where we are because Democrats fumbled an eminently winnable election, twice

[–] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 3 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Idk. Maybe if us Americans werent completely checked out we could have rallied behind a third candidate when everyone else was peddling genocide. We can chop it up all day, but on the other side of it I dont see how its wrong to criticize what happened and why it did. People can be mad and we should. But that doesn't mean it should turn into "IF EVERYONE JUST VOTED THIS WAY WE'D HAVE KEPT THE STATUS QUO REEEEEEEE" because that never reflects reality and is not helpful. Especially when 75% of thr country can't be bothered. These things matter, campaign plans and actions matter, it sucks that the obvious fuckhead won by saying shit people wanted to hear but thats what happened.

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[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 0 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Sure but why stop there. If things were perfect they'd be perfect! Not to mention I think the fact that third parties are not historically viable in national elections are why we're here and not the solution. They absolutely should be but that's not the world we live in unfortunately.

Call me utilitarian if you want. But I'm of the mind but if I had the means to take solid action to save a few. It's more moral than taking a stance virtue signaling and saving none. That's my praxis. For instance if you were in the region. Down in the Mediterranean and had a small boat that could hold 20 to 100 people. Would you go in and try to sneak out 20 to 100 people at a time saving who you could. Or would that be immoral because you couldn't save everyone. What was the goal in focused campaigning against Harris, and

I don't blame or begrudge people for feeling betrayed by Harris and the Democrats. But I genuinely wonder how many knew what the alternative actually was. Either way we need to start getting busy now. Not just for the midterms but positioning decent candidates for the 28 presidential as well. Otherwise the Overton Death March is only going to continue unabated. There are already positioning Harris and Newsom. Who are 100% horrible candidates that will still be better than anything Republicans are going to put forth. Call me misguided but I think Bernie Sanders was really cooking and we should follow his lead. DSA in my Democratic primary it could work out better than you think

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[–] Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 5 points 7 months ago* (1 child)

I voted for her and watched as she self dunked everything by campaigning in the dumbest way possible. That shit pushed me fully into anarchist beliefs. She should have had that in the bag. And no, I dont think it was any campaigns against her. I think her own campaign stepped on its own dick just fine.

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[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 3 points 7 months ago

Honestly I'm right there with you. Notice I'm not saying the Democrats are not to blame for any of this. They 100% are. But when Zionist and oligarch media start giving you attention you better double check your messaging. The focusing solely on Harris and not all candidates was an unforced error. That the media gleefully Amplified. The more of us that understand this the better things are going to be in the future.

And welcome to the club. It doesn't matter who was here first all that matters is that people continue to join.🤜🤛

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[–] Diva@lemmy.ml [S] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I don’t blame or begrudge people for feeling betrayed by Harris and the Democrats.

They have been betraying us, it's more than a feeling. The democrats as a party are not invested in winning and have no principles they run on other than being 'not trump' while still being fully on board with war, empire, harsh border controls, and corporate monopolies.

I find the people complaining about 'both sides' rhetoric and blaming nonvoters incredibly off-putting because they're absolving a hostile party of its obvious negligence and preventing any lessons from being learned in the name of smug self-satisfaction.

They're more interested in scolding voters than reflecting on how the parties own actions led to them losing to a game show host, twice now.

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[–] Eldritch@piefed.world 1 point 7 months ago (1 child)

Okay, but that's a very disingenuous framing of most the people we're talking about. Especially on the fediverse. I 100% believe that someone somewhere made such claims but that wasn't the common sentiment. No one was largely telling anyone not to criticize Harris and the Democrats for their stances. Far from. They earned all that and more.

But railing against Harris and the Democrats wasn't railing against genocide. I don't care who you voted for or if you didn't vote. Honestly the best way to fix national government and national elections is to abolish them both. For most people the issue truly was both sides. Because it was about the genocide, not Democrats. And pointing out how the myopic focus on just Harris was not only counterproductive but disastrous.

No one was (generally speaking) telling you not to criticize Harris. Just telling you don't let yourself be used by the petite bourgeoisie or the zionists. And asking what your plan was. For most people it was jumping without a parachute, and acting surprised when they went splat. Democrats and the people railing against the Democrats specifically both. And the Really tragic part of it is I know many of the people that campaigned against Harris the hardest. Ended up voting for her even as they drove Palestinians and other people into non-voting apathy or voting for Trump.

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[–] Diva@lemmy.ml [S] 3 points 7 months ago*

Okay, but that’s a very disingenuous framing of most the people we’re talking about. Especially on the fediverse. I 100% believe that someone somewhere made such claims but that wasn’t the common sentiment. No one was largely telling anyone not to criticize Harris and the Democrats for their stances. Far from. They earned all that and more.

I am not interested in getting to shitflinging because we agree on most other things, however this itself is kind of disingenuous framing of what I just said; I said:

I find the people complaining about ‘both sides’ rhetoric and blaming nonvoters incredibly off-putting because they’re absolving a hostile party of its obvious negligence and preventing any lessons from being learned in the name of smug self-satisfaction.

I didn't say that they were saying not to criticize the democrats even, I just said that fixating on blaming voters is serving the end of whitewashing the failures of the democrats and contributing to an atmosphere where they learn nothing.

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[–] Scirocco@lemmy.world 1 point 6 months ago

I would still vote for Bernie

The only thing against his is his age. The negative about age is it's effect on cognitive function. Bernie, so far as I know, isn't showing any real signs of cognitive dysfunction.

If there's ANY person who could grasp the reigns of the "unitary executive theory" of the Presidency, use that authority with great authoritarian zeal to IMPROVE the system and to REMOVE the vastly expanded Executive power that has gradually crept to levels unimaginable to past generations, and then DROP the reigns of power....

It would be Bernie Sanders.

What could an unleashed Bernie accomplish in one term, knowing he was not running for re-election. That administration could come out swinging and never stop.

I firmly believe that Bernie would have won against Trump all three times.

And I've got a feeling his VP choice would have been a lot better than Biden's, and a lot more effective at positioning that person to also win.

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