The prolife party is calling for death? This is a familiar pattern. How long you think until it comes out hes fucking kids?

Hey dude, got news for you. The leader of your party fucked children. Seems how he'd measure their vaginas is more of a risk to kids.

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[–] 98 points 9 months ago* (59 children)

Ya know… I may not fully understand what it is to be trans, but my reaction to that is curiosity, a desire to learn. To understand.

How this can motivate a person to think this, to do this… I just don’t get it.

Why are they this way? What makes a person so bigoted that their answer is “executions”?

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  • [–] 21 points 9 months ago (5 children)

    Reactionary ideology is about loss and blame.

    The current reactionary stripe in the US is focused on White Evangelical Supremacy, so everyone who is not in that group is a prime target.

    White Evangelicalism has lost a heap of prestige in the last 30 years, while LGBTQ+ rights have been ascendant. This is the reason why trans people have long been taegeted by the reactionary right: they want to roll back all of the gains made to sexual minorities, and trans people make the easiest targets.

    They also target immigrants for largely the same reason: they're a highly visible population who doesn't conform to their ideal White Evangelical model, so they use terror tactics to oppress them.

    The goal is to make life intolerable for the people they hate so that they don't have to compete against ideas that make the world a more equitable place. It's no coincidence that the reactionary right rallied around fighting diversity, equity and inclusion: they are an evangelical white supremacist coalition.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago (4 children)

    see... yes, you're correct about all of what you're saying... but this is the understanding we had... 10-15 years ago. It was that simple then. But the reasons people tell themselves to be on this side and the means by which they fight (tactics, strategy, etc.) really has evolved in the 25+ years I, myself, have been part of the fight. What I'm saying is that: the other side has massively-upgraded its fighting ability and the complex/advanced nature of its attacks over the last 10 years, and we have repeatedly faltered in trying to counter it. Once in a while, we have a standout moment, but, currently, we're on our back foot and without a clear strategy - or even the basic tactics - we need in oder to actually fight.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    Yes, the reactionary right is often derided as stupid, but they're very effective at stealing the language of liberation from the left and repurposing it to defend the people in power.

    While many of the base are indeed ignorant and misinformed, the people driving the message are meticulous and creative about finding ways to make White Evangelical Supremacy more palatable. Tucker Carlson is especially effective at laundering neo-nazi talking points for them; his constant scaremongering around the racist "great replacement" conspiracy theory and his open hatred and lies about trans people are some of the most egregious.

    But it's also people like Joe Rogan who make this reactionary funnel really work: he acts like a middle-of-the-road centrist, but also sells a gentler version of the same great replacement and "gender ideology" bullshit while introducing his audience to a whole bunch of radical right-wing freaks like they're just normal people.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    I hate to say this, but, as correct as I think your assessment is… I think it’s about 5 to 10 years out of date. Things have gotten much more complicated, complex, and dire since then, and this old world understanding of why it is this way just isn’t gonna cut it anymore.

    As you’ve pointed out, the right wing has seized on digital and independent media and forced those crazy views into the mainstream. This is something that was not only pioneer by leftists, but dominated by the left for decades until just very recently. What the fuck happened? We need to figure that out and figure out how to fight back. Especially if the truth requires us, collectively, facing a bunch of stuff, we don’t want to admit about ourselves, growing, and moving on.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I guess I don't understand what you think I'm missing. I think the rise of an explicitly fascist party and the propaganda arm to support it is pretty dire.

    And historically, the right has been at the forefront of new media. Talk radio has been almost exclusively reactionary since its inception, and that provided a model for new media as well. We've had nearly a century of radical right-wing radio content to hone the message and tactics. Father Caughlin was doing his radio show in 1933, wherein he took his "America First" message to the nation.

    There have been more leftist new-media shows than previously, but they are still playing catch-up with the well-funded reactionaries.

    The right-wing rage machine has recently been fueled by a number of things, but mainly loss in prestige due to acceptance of LGBTQ+ people & the US hiring a black president. They got a candidate in Donald Trump who swore to be their retribution, and they rallied around him because he hates all the same people, but (perhaps most importantly) also spoke to their loss in a way that other Republicans and Democrats would not.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago*

    I guess I don’t understand what you think I’m missing. I think the rise of an explicitly fascist party and the propaganda arm to support it is pretty dire.

    I don't think you're missing anything.

    it's a lot to think about

    Thanks. I feel a lot less alone in my... despair.

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  • [–] 33 points 9 months ago* (32 children)

    because they think people are good or evil.

    and evil ones must be punished and killed.

    it's that simple.

    lots of people think this way. it's far more common than not.

    the question is what your criteria for good and evil are.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago* (31 children)

    I don’t know… I used to believe this, but today I’m feeling that this sort of assessment is more than a bit reductive. If we are supposed to be fighting this, then we need to understand it better and dismiss it less.

    Nothing about this is simple, and falling into that mindset is, I believe, a major problem with how the other side thinks. We can’t be better than them, and we especially can’t beat them, if we’re just the same as them. (in this context.)

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (3 children)

    Except this is simple; You are either in the in group and mostly a good person who occasionally makes mistakes that should be forgiven or you are in the out group and are a bad person who does bad things and cannot do redeemable things.

    That’s it. That’s the entire right wing ethos.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago

    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

    • Frank Wilhoit
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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago* (15 children)

    It's tribalism. It's not that complex.

    My tribe good, your tribe bad. Anyone in the tribe who doesn't follow the tribe rules, is bad.

    You may subscribe to a 'all human beings are the same' globalism, but very very few people do. And most of those people who do are educated in a certain way. And even those who do believe that... their actions are often in contradiction to those beliefs.

    I live in a very progressive city full of 'global citizens'. Most of them lose their shit at having to see homeless people and open talk about just killing them because they are gross to look at. They feel similar about non-white, non-educated, and immigrant populations. Why? Because those people aren't part of their 'tribe'. They are happy to tell me this because I'm part of their tribe and they can 'be honest' with me.

    A lot of people understand their public image is different than their private beliefs. And their public image may be 'everyone is humanl' their private belief is often, only people who look, talk, and have as much money as they do are really 'human'. Everyone else is a subhuman until they have attained the same level of status.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (9 children)

    I'm not debating whether tribalism plays a major part in this-- even many major parts... what I suspect is that, as we have tried to address issues like this for over a century, now, the issue itself (and its roots) have evolved into a much more complex state, and that more is now required to understand and address these newer complexities that didn't exist in the past.

    for example: I grew up in the 80s and 90s as a closeted gay kid, and eventually came out in 1997 when there was a huge global surge in LGBTQ visibility, acceptance, etc. And that went on for almost 15 years until a conservative backlash slid in and began dismantling so many of the strides towards unity and acceptance the LGBTQ community had hard-won. But the attacks, today, the criticisms, everything the MAGAs do to just tear away at the civil rights of not only LGBTQ people but any minority deserves reconsideration as to the how their attacks have changed, and the what it is that they appeal to in their base that elicits their support.

    I'm trying to approach this from the perspective of not only defending against newer, more complex and advanced tactics, but also understanding them better.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (4 children)

    Even if tomorrow trans people stopped being an issue, there would be some new group to cause controversy over or who wants recognition that isn’t getting it.

    Yes, I know. I am not debating this. I accept this as a truism and one of the fundamental weaknesses of humans and society-- one which we must constantly struggle against... which we must understand it if we have any hope of overcoming the worst parts of ourselves. It's not enough to simply fight back against it, but we must come to understand what about ourselves, as humans leads us to this and how to, ultimately, stop it from happening in the first place. Or, at least... become better people and society for it, even if it's in baby steps.

    But, first, we must understand the very core of the "why" of it all, and that's something that keeps evolving into something more complex-- not just in how people understand it, but also (especially recently) how it's being used to manipulate people into political positions.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago (3 children)

    I mean we clearly both understand it.

    You can't stop it from happening. Anymore than you can stop yourself from needing oxygen to breathe. Reality is limited, people are limited. My perspective is rare and only a product of certain luxuries that many people don't and will never have and many people are totally hostile to my perspective to the point they'd kill me if they could.

    I've been threaten with violence and physically attacked by people on the right and the left for my own viewpoints. Because violence is a great way to silence people who are different than you. Reason I left reddit was because I was constantly being banned for my perspectives that human beings are what they are and there is no changing us into beings of perfect good, and believing you are a being of perfect good is the more surefire way for you to justify violence and evil upon others.

    I just pursue my own good and focus on what I value as bettering myself. Other people disagree with me deeply about that and often tell me that I'm a stupid idiot for not doing what they think I should be doing, which is mostly agreeing with them and validating their choices and beliefs. But my choices come at a cost, I don't get to 'belong' or be a part of any tribe because I won't pursue the party line of 'us vs them' and people think I'm a selfish-jerk for not doing so. Even in personal relationships, I refuse to see the world in 'us vs them' terms and it drives my partners insane because to them the point of a family is to form a unit to 'protect' itself from the 'evils' outside of the unit.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    look... we've had a nice conversation up to this point, but I'm going to say something that is going to sound confrontational, but I'm not intending to insult you...

    but this isn't about you... buuuut you may have, without realizing it, given me not the answer I was looking for, but the lens I need to look through in oder to better understand it. You've given me an interesting perspective on this and other matters that, maybe, I hadn't considered thoughtfully enough.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    trans people arent "an issue" and they certainly arent the cause of any controversy. please consider your language more carefully if you are trying to defend the trans community.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (4 children)

    I'm wondering if there are some people who naturally reject the tribalism, or if rejecting it is something that needs to be learned.

    The only people I want to die are the people who want people to die 😉

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    Yes, but they get rejected by society largely, because people don't like people who don't want to be a part of the tribe.

    You just described most of the formative years of my life.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (5 children)

    yeah no, youre way off. wanting the other side dead is specifically and exclusively a problem of the right wing. there is no equivalence.

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  • [–] 6 points 9 months ago*

    charlie kirk was killed by a groyper.

    "i’ve been politically active for almost 25 years, and I’ve seen violence and death called for by everyone. the only major difference is who they want to be the victim(s) of that violence."

    ive been politically active for over 30 years and ive never heard anyone on the left call for murders. i can link countless rightwing nutjobs in and out of office that are calling for death. im calling bs on your claim.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago* (2 children)

    Only a shitlib or someone afraid of repercussions will say violence or killing is inherently wrong (although leftists usually say it should be the responsibility of a state or system of governance, which is still violence), like all actions it depends on the context. The difference between the right and the left is that the right wing takes inconsequential characteristics they find to be icky and demands blood over them, while the left condemns people for actions that actually harm others.

    Yes Charlie Kirk deserved to die, yes it was good that it happened, because he was actively working to make the world unbearably worse for everyone.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago (2 children)

    Just because you can draw a similarity between two methods of thinking doesn't man they're equally valid/invalid. You have to compare it to reality. You're also invoking the tolerance of intolerance fallacy here.

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  • [–] 1 point 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

    There's only one reality, some people are just more wrong about what they think it is. Let me know if you are seriously arguing for "alternative truth" so I can block you now and save us both the trouble.

    The rest of your worldview seems poorly thought out as well. The logical endpoint of a society which must tolerate everything is true anarchy. We created rules and societal structure to avoid that because it SUCKS. You cannot collaborate effectively without rules and the backdrop of a functioning society. You must spend an incredible amount of energy being vigilant, defending yourself from the world, and verifying things. You cannot trust anything that you do not completely understand AND trust the source of, and you're less likely to understand things without knowledge sharing. People who are physicslly unable to contribute, who are arbitrarily deemed "weird", or who do not wish to harm others suffer massive disadvantages. Again... not worth it.

    Saying that I should not be intolerant of intolerance is not only practically unsustainable, it's also hypocritical. You are yourself being intolerant of my intolerance, the very thing you are arguing against myself doing. In fact, if you are against intolerance wholesale, shouldn't you agree with me that whoever is being intolerant in the first place is wrong?

    i invoke fallacies because they are part of reality. the vast majority of human beings operate with cognitive and logical fallacies, there are inherent aspects of every single person.

    It's called a fallacy because it's a thought trap. It's something so obviously paradoxical and self-defeating that honestly, if you want to continue running into them at full speed and insisting you're right anyways by waving your hand and saying abacadabra, I don't see the point of replying further. Suspicions confirmed, goodbye and good luck.

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  • [–] 16 points 9 months ago* (1 child)

    Tbh I don't really care much about trans people, in the same way I don't give a fuck about the person living 3 streets away that I don't know. I don't understand why people give a shit what someone else wants to be called, or wether they want a dick, vagina, tits or a funky mix. It doesn't negatively affect anyone's life in any way, so I see no reason to negatively affect theirs.

    Religious nutjobs and authoritarian cunts are the people negatively affecting other people's lives. And so their lives needs to be equally negatively affected for true balance in the world.

    I guess like a kind of karma, only I don't believe any force of nature will take care of it, so people must do it instead.

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  • [–] 11 points 9 months ago*

    I'm 46. I've lived in a lot of places, and I have met a lot of people-- people of all shapes, sizes, flavors, etc.

    Of all of the people who hold some sort of bigotry (especially the actual bigoted assholes) I ever met, not a single one of them arrived at that opinion by themselves. Most everyone holds some sort of biases and bigotries, even those who actively try not to. It's human failing... we all have them. But there's a difference between a minor, subconscious bias and "I don't want X people in my church." One of those can, very easily, be addressed with education, social exposure, etc. Generationally, one of those things was going away because it was being addressed. The second issue, the outright bigotry, on the other hand, I believe is a much more complicated issue requiring a more complicated solution. It appears, outright, to be much more simple, but that's just what it look like. u under the surface, I suspect that there is much more that contributes to this attitude... and that understanding that is critical to combating it.

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  • [–] 13 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    Christian Fundamentalism.

    There's your answer.

    Ya'll Qaeda.

    We are really going to have to confront the fact that about a third of the country are hardcore religious extremist theocrats who want a brutal theocracy and do not give a single fuck about ideas like democracy, human rights, and an impartial legal system, beyond cosplaying like they care about them for the sake of appealing to normies.

    You don't understand how people can think this way because you weren't raised, indoctrinated, in this way of thinking.

    I was, and I am telling you at least 1/3rd of the population of the country is like this.

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  • [–] 4 points 9 months ago (1 child)

    I'm not anti religion broadly, but we do need to start putting restrictions on what religion is acceptable. You worship the local river spirit that asks for a festival every spring? Super cool. Your fertility god needs you to have an orgy? Awesome. You evil war god demands you kill or enslave everyone unlike yourself? No, that religion should not be allowed to continue existing.

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  • [–] 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

    They are an extremely small amount of people, so it's very easy to target them for hate messaging.

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  • [–] 2 points 9 months ago

    sorry, in my deleted comment, I misunderstood what you said.

    as for trans people being easy to target because there are so few of them: although that very true, I think that's just a matter of convenience at the moment. The root issue that some people take issue with is the "otherness" of being trans. LGBTQ people have, over the last 25+ years, come a very long towards mainstream acceptance, but there have been some very notable backlashes/regressions in that regard as well. I'm trying to figure out a newer, more contemporaneous way to address and combat that.

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  • [–] 8 points 9 months ago (2 children)

    Why do Muslim fundamentalists throw acid into children's faces?

    Same reason Christians want to kill gays and trans people.

    God's love ♥️

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  • [–] [S] 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

    I may not fully understand what it is to be trans, but my reaction to that is curiosity, a desire to learn. To understand.

    I had it explained to me once by a really really good friend, so I'll try to pass it on as best I can. The way I had it explained to me was:

    Imagine the thing you will leave behind that will last the longest.

    Is it a photo?

    No. Photographs fade and decay.

    Is it a scientific discovery?

    Probably not

    Is it an achievement?

    Not really unless you're up there like Neil Armstrong.

    Is it the memory others have of you?

    No because eventually they'll pass on too.

    After a few generations, all reference and remembrance of you will have faded into the background but for one thing: your tomb stone. Not much of anything, but it'll stand the test of time better than anything else really. I mean the Egyptians built the pyramids, and they're the oldest thing we have. What are they made of? Stone.

    Now, imagine that your tomb stone had the wrong gender marker and someone else's name. It's a pretty crappy thing isn't it? The only thing that will be left to proclaim that you, [so-and-so-and-so], were here as a male/female between these dates is wrong.

    Now, imagine you could, if just for a moment, come back to fix it and set it right. Not much of anything, but it'll set right the mark that you [whatever your name is] were here as male/female/whatever.

    That's basically a gender transition, but while you're alive.

    Maybe they'll dead name you on your marker anyway. Maybe they'll have the wrong gender marker on that stone anyway too. It's not like you'll notice. But at least you'll have tried, and maybe that'll have to do. After all, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, and transitioning while you're alive is the best shot you can take to get that tombstone set right. Also, maybe have a shot at a happier life along the way.

    And, that's pretty much how it was explained to me. Kinda sad, but it really made it clear and understandable to me. Hope it helps you like it did me.

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  • [–] 3 points 9 months ago

    They have a fixed mindset, while you described a growth mindset. They’re afraid of anyone different from them because it disrupts their hierarchy and their belief system. They’re afraid to question their beliefs too.

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